I know, old topic and lots of info in the archives. But Pat's question about Norcold caused me to remember that last year about this time we had a long thread going about the H37C icebox/refrigerator. What has anyone done in the interim? I have researched all the options but still am undecided. I do think that I will simply install an evaporator in the box, mount a compressor somewhere, and try to improve the insulation. As a review I presently have refrigeration, an old 110V AC system with the compressor mounted way at the back under the starboard coaming. If you climb into the starboard locker you can look back and almost touch it. It works but I have never left it on long enough to measure the current draw through the inverter or even to see if it really gets cold. Why? Because the previous owner installed a Norcold where the oven use to be. It works well but is also 110V and draws about 12 amps thru the inverter. It cycles about 15 minutes per hour so this might be acceptable with a good battery system. Decisions, decisions.
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Age-Old-Question
I've written on this before, but now I can write with the confidence of a year and a half "out here" in real-word conditions. The "chase of amp-hours" is really a master I don't want to be slave to! No matter how you cut it, unless you go to great lengths in insullating your compartment, you must generate at least 50-75 Amp-hours/day to run a 4-8 cu.ft. refrigerator/freezer anywhere the waters are temperate/tropical. With generating losses, this translates to an awful lot of engine time every day, or a "forest" of generating devices mounted on your stern, making your boat look less like a yacht and more like a do-it-yourself Rube Goldberg energy farm! On Duet, we went through the Cold Machine (tired when we got the boat, torn out soon after) Norcold 1.8 cu.ft. mounted under an Origo stove (stove was ok, Norcold was power hungry, to say the least), finally decided to think "out of the box" Took out the Nav Table and put in a small bulkhead at the end of the settee. Suspended a Dometic 4.5 cu. ft. Propane fridge on gimballs between the bulkheads with the Nav Table re-installed on top. Chasing Amps? No way! And, we have a nice stove with oven where it should be! And lots of storage in those compartments others think should be ice boxes. I'm not trying to "sell" anyone on the idea, I'm just saying it WORKS!
I've written on this before, but now I can write with the confidence of a year and a half "out here" in real-word conditions. The "chase of amp-hours" is really a master I don't want to be slave to! No matter how you cut it, unless you go to great lengths in insullating your compartment, you must generate at least 50-75 Amp-hours/day to run a 4-8 cu.ft. refrigerator/freezer anywhere the waters are temperate/tropical. With generating losses, this translates to an awful lot of engine time every day, or a "forest" of generating devices mounted on your stern, making your boat look less like a yacht and more like a do-it-yourself Rube Goldberg energy farm! On Duet, we went through the Cold Machine (tired when we got the boat, torn out soon after) Norcold 1.8 cu.ft. mounted under an Origo stove (stove was ok, Norcold was power hungry, to say the least), finally decided to think "out of the box" Took out the Nav Table and put in a small bulkhead at the end of the settee. Suspended a Dometic 4.5 cu. ft. Propane fridge on gimballs between the bulkheads with the Nav Table re-installed on top. Chasing Amps? No way! And, we have a nice stove with oven where it should be! And lots of storage in those compartments others think should be ice boxes. I'm not trying to "sell" anyone on the idea, I'm just saying it WORKS!
But Dave, where do you. . . .
put the propane? And what size bottle(s) and how much does the frig use? Did you then convert the stove to propane? Do you miss the leg room under the nav table?
put the propane? And what size bottle(s) and how much does the frig use? Did you then convert the stove to propane? Do you miss the leg room under the nav table?
Ed's Answers
My 2 tanks (5-gallon aluminum) are mounted at the base of the mast, just between the mast and the staysail sheet track. The solenoid and manifold are located there as well, and the hookup is done singly...no automatics here..not necessary. When a tank runs empty, we just move the pigtail and regulator to the fresh tank. All the plumbing is out in the fresh air, so should a leak develop, it will dissipate safely. We use propane for the stove/oven, the fridge, a demand-type water heater, and cabin heater. In the winter, when we use the heater on cold mornings, one 5-gallon tank lasts 3+ weeks. The rest of the year, we go 4-5 weeks on a single tank. If we used it for just the fridge, I think you could get 7-8 weeks out of a tank. Ed, if you are at the stage where this is indeed an option for you, and if cruising away from power sources is in your future, I suggest you give it serious consideration. I see by your frequent posts to this list that you share my love and respect for this particular boat, and upgrades interest you a lot. This is one that we've been very happy with over the 6 years since the installation. Leg room? Well, if you look at many of the pictures of that area that are posted on this list, you'll notice that it's a great place to "store" things, or a perfect place for the beer cooler.....etc. No, we use the salon table for charting, and most of that is done on my lap..on this computer! Short of putting up a solar "farm" or other over-the-top generating system, I think it's far better to avoid the scramble altogether and let the dead dinosaurs do it; and our boat still looks like a boat! We live on a mooring, so you can judge your needs accordingly: Our engine running time is about 1-2 hours/week as long as the sun shines. When we have "June Gloom" here in Southern California, (very little sun) it probably goes up to around 3 hrs/week. We enjoy TV at night, reading, and all the rest. As a matter of fact, our alternator regulator was out of service for a month! No big deal, we just cut back a bit and lived off the solar panel. No big amp-hog to be a slave to! Good Luck!
My 2 tanks (5-gallon aluminum) are mounted at the base of the mast, just between the mast and the staysail sheet track. The solenoid and manifold are located there as well, and the hookup is done singly...no automatics here..not necessary. When a tank runs empty, we just move the pigtail and regulator to the fresh tank. All the plumbing is out in the fresh air, so should a leak develop, it will dissipate safely. We use propane for the stove/oven, the fridge, a demand-type water heater, and cabin heater. In the winter, when we use the heater on cold mornings, one 5-gallon tank lasts 3+ weeks. The rest of the year, we go 4-5 weeks on a single tank. If we used it for just the fridge, I think you could get 7-8 weeks out of a tank. Ed, if you are at the stage where this is indeed an option for you, and if cruising away from power sources is in your future, I suggest you give it serious consideration. I see by your frequent posts to this list that you share my love and respect for this particular boat, and upgrades interest you a lot. This is one that we've been very happy with over the 6 years since the installation. Leg room? Well, if you look at many of the pictures of that area that are posted on this list, you'll notice that it's a great place to "store" things, or a perfect place for the beer cooler.....etc. No, we use the salon table for charting, and most of that is done on my lap..on this computer! Short of putting up a solar "farm" or other over-the-top generating system, I think it's far better to avoid the scramble altogether and let the dead dinosaurs do it; and our boat still looks like a boat! We live on a mooring, so you can judge your needs accordingly: Our engine running time is about 1-2 hours/week as long as the sun shines. When we have "June Gloom" here in Southern California, (very little sun) it probably goes up to around 3 hrs/week. We enjoy TV at night, reading, and all the rest. As a matter of fact, our alternator regulator was out of service for a month! No big deal, we just cut back a bit and lived off the solar panel. No big amp-hog to be a slave to! Good Luck!
I'm Not Ed, but....
Not sure if you're writing to me, because in my post I mentioned we're on a mooring, but if you are, yes, we're using a Cisco card supplied by Catalina Computers here in Avalon. It works OK here in the harbor, but when we go up the island to anchor out for the summer (high rates here inside), I don't think we'll have any coverage at all. The fact that yours works well to MDR is interesting. Is the modem expensive? Speedy? Dependable? Is it dependent on specific IP's? Let's start another thread!
Not sure if you're writing to me, because in my post I mentioned we're on a mooring, but if you are, yes, we're using a Cisco card supplied by Catalina Computers here in Avalon. It works OK here in the harbor, but when we go up the island to anchor out for the summer (high rates here inside), I don't think we'll have any coverage at all. The fact that yours works well to MDR is interesting. Is the modem expensive? Speedy? Dependable? Is it dependent on specific IP's? Let's start another thread!
Where is new thread?
A thread for wireless PC connectivity is a good idea. Where will you put it? I am no help, just sitting here at work with a normal Internet connection. But it's fast! It really spoils me when I have to go home and get on AOL at 38K or so. And I don't own a laptop, still trying to figure out how to best do the chartwork. So far a cheap GPS and paper charts have been fine. Thanks for the propane info Dave. Hangin' out on a mooring in Avalon and on an H37C, you lucky guy!
A thread for wireless PC connectivity is a good idea. Where will you put it? I am no help, just sitting here at work with a normal Internet connection. But it's fast! It really spoils me when I have to go home and get on AOL at 38K or so. And I don't own a laptop, still trying to figure out how to best do the chartwork. So far a cheap GPS and paper charts have been fine. Thanks for the propane info Dave. Hangin' out on a mooring in Avalon and on an H37C, you lucky guy!
More questions for Dave Simpson
Dave... Do you leave your refrigerator running when you are away from the boat? Your setup sounds interesting, but I would be a little afraid of leaving it unattended??? What does a unit like yours cost?? Ron/KA5HZV
Dave... Do you leave your refrigerator running when you are away from the boat? Your setup sounds interesting, but I would be a little afraid of leaving it unattended??? What does a unit like yours cost?? Ron/KA5HZV
Ron's Response....
Hi Ron; Life is full of risks, and it's our job to minimize them. I've done all the plumbing myself, so I know it's done right, soap-tested, chafe protected, etc. But, by the nature of the beast, (the fridge is a demand unit; it needs what it needs when it needs it) the gas supply is constantly "on"; ie: it is piped directly off the regulator with a shutoff valve. (The other appliances are supplied through a solenoid shutoff). If we were not virtually "always" on board to hear the sniffer alarm and take measures, I would buy a "normally open" solenoid valve and operate it through a relay from the sniffer alarm circuit. (I might do that anyway if I can find the solenoid valve.) Doing it through the available "normally-closed" types gets us into the 24A/day drain we're trying to avoid As for cost, the 4.5 cu ft Dometic was about $700 from Camping World about 7 years ago. Don't think they've changed much since then , just gotten better, I guess. The rest of the cost was time mostly, changing out the nav table and making up the gimballs. If you're really serious, I'll take some pictures & post them for you. Good luck.
Hi Ron; Life is full of risks, and it's our job to minimize them. I've done all the plumbing myself, so I know it's done right, soap-tested, chafe protected, etc. But, by the nature of the beast, (the fridge is a demand unit; it needs what it needs when it needs it) the gas supply is constantly "on"; ie: it is piped directly off the regulator with a shutoff valve. (The other appliances are supplied through a solenoid shutoff). If we were not virtually "always" on board to hear the sniffer alarm and take measures, I would buy a "normally open" solenoid valve and operate it through a relay from the sniffer alarm circuit. (I might do that anyway if I can find the solenoid valve.) Doing it through the available "normally-closed" types gets us into the 24A/day drain we're trying to avoid As for cost, the 4.5 cu ft Dometic was about $700 from Camping World about 7 years ago. Don't think they've changed much since then , just gotten better, I guess. The rest of the cost was time mostly, changing out the nav table and making up the gimballs. If you're really serious, I'll take some pictures & post them for you. Good luck.
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