I posted the text of this article a few weeks ago, but wanted to hear if the experts from Doyle had any comments. Thanks for everyone's patience!! I spent about 45 mins with a local sailmaker who is cleaning and repairing my DOYLE OEM sails this winter. We looked over my jib,a Doyle sail with Sunbrella protection due to roller furling. He pointed out a couple of things. First, he told me my the main and jib were in "good shape". I want to emphasize his general evaluation of the material condition of the sails was postive. Cost for cleaning and repair is approximately 140.00 (40.00 for cleaning and approximately 40.00 an hour for "other work"). That being said, he told me there were "problems" with the jib. First and most important, he showed me that the draft of the sail was too large and too far aft. Second, he noted that the jib didn't have a foam luff and although the sunbrella provided good UV protection the combination of sunbrella and no foam luff would prevent any kind of shaping while reefed. Basically, he commented that he didn't think it was very efficient and I wasn't getting much out of it. So...he's trying to sell me a new sail. He told me you get what you pay for and I'd defintely see an improvement in the way the boat handles with a new jib, that was "cut better and had a foam luff". By the way..his quote for a new 100% with U/V protection and foam luff was 1150 bucks.
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Bill Colombo
Recut or replace?
Kevin, The OEM sails made for Hunter by Doyle are built to Hunter's strict specifications in terms of materials and finishing details. They are goods sails that fit the boats well and we have very few problems with them. That said, no sail will last forever in terms of shape. Over time the draft position in all sails will move aft and Dacron sails especially tend to stretch a bit and become fuller than originally designed. If the cloth is indeed in "good shape" it is a relatively simple process to recut the sail to be both flatter and more "draft forward". The addition of a foam luff is certainly a nice feature to have on a genoa if you like to use the furler as a reefing system. However, we rarely put them on sails 100% or smaller. The decision you have to make is if you want to spend the money improving the performance of your original sail rather than investing in a new one. You can get a comparable price for a replacement sail from Doyle on this website! Thanks, Bill Colombo Doyle Sailmakers
Kevin, The OEM sails made for Hunter by Doyle are built to Hunter's strict specifications in terms of materials and finishing details. They are goods sails that fit the boats well and we have very few problems with them. That said, no sail will last forever in terms of shape. Over time the draft position in all sails will move aft and Dacron sails especially tend to stretch a bit and become fuller than originally designed. If the cloth is indeed in "good shape" it is a relatively simple process to recut the sail to be both flatter and more "draft forward". The addition of a foam luff is certainly a nice feature to have on a genoa if you like to use the furler as a reefing system. However, we rarely put them on sails 100% or smaller. The decision you have to make is if you want to spend the money improving the performance of your original sail rather than investing in a new one. You can get a comparable price for a replacement sail from Doyle on this website! Thanks, Bill Colombo Doyle Sailmakers
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Jim
I think he's see's a sucker
Think your being sold swamp land in FL... it's 100% OEM Jib even with the Sunbrella its a only a 100% working jib! With that said, H26 jibs are fractional, otherwise the Main is the driving force.. For the little bit of performance you "might get" it's not worth the $s. Face it, if you have to reef the jib, -you got "all you can hande", likely your better off rolling it in and sailing safer on the main only. The H26 is not forgiving relative to being overpowered, its better safe then sorry. Now how do you spell broach? Hey if you want to play, go for a flasher type asymeterical and have some colorful fun down wind, the H26 does have a weakness in running because of the spreaders.. that makes more sense!
Think your being sold swamp land in FL... it's 100% OEM Jib even with the Sunbrella its a only a 100% working jib! With that said, H26 jibs are fractional, otherwise the Main is the driving force.. For the little bit of performance you "might get" it's not worth the $s. Face it, if you have to reef the jib, -you got "all you can hande", likely your better off rolling it in and sailing safer on the main only. The H26 is not forgiving relative to being overpowered, its better safe then sorry. Now how do you spell broach? Hey if you want to play, go for a flasher type asymeterical and have some colorful fun down wind, the H26 does have a weakness in running because of the spreaders.. that makes more sense!
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Cliff Ruckstuhl
You seem to think your getting Hosed
Not sure why. You took the sail in to be looked at and he gave you his opnion. That said try sailing to weather with just your main. Going will be slow and and side slippage will be great. Jim is saying Shape will not matter and just roll it in and go with the main alone. I disagree you will need the head sail for power and punching through waves. Even though it is a Frac rig you will need some head sail to power through waves. On the boat when over powered putting in a reef in the main to stop it from flogging and getting back winded would make more sence and let the Jib keep driving the boat. When getting over powered and dropping down the main on the traveler it will flog and you will not get any driving force from the main. Or maybe just 40% of it. Then it is all head sail driving the boat with the main being back winded. This is all with the point of sail being to weather. Dacron Sail's have 2 lives cloth life and shape life. A Dacron sail should be recut for a fast shape every couble of years. With the Draft of the sail moved aft to 50% or more you have a terrible shape and boat will become overpowered faster and cause more healing. Point less and just not be as fun as it could be. Draft needs to be at 40% for the head sail and around 45%-50% for the main. Reason for the draft being farther back on the main sail is from turbulance from the mast. You never mentioned how old the sail's are? With the Head sail on the 26 being the only head sail you need it to have good shape for when it is blowing 5 knots or 20 knots. That Said the Luff Foam will allow it to carry some shape as it is rolled to about a 70 % head sail or when the wind comes up even more to a 30% head sail. Sail's are the driving force of the boat and good sail's will make the boat perform better. No you do not need to have top of the line racing sail's. But the shape of a Racing sail cloth will out last the shape of a crusing cloth sail. Racing sail's cloth will have a tighter weave. Also with a after market sail you might be able to carry a little more sail like a 113% or a 115% not just a 100% that came on the boat. Not to mention a sail that is closer to the deck or a Blade Jib. Hunter makes Great Boats and I have not found a better boat for the money and I am on my 3rd Hunter. Doyle,North,UK and all the top sail makers make great sail's and I would buy sail's from any one of them. But he is right you get what you pay for. So you think I am not a racer why buy racing type sail's. Fast sail's will inprove the boats handling and the distance you can sail on a weekend or a weeks vaction. Still not sure get another opnion from another loft. When the boats are made they are sold with a set of working sail's. Not the best cloth because Hunter get's quotes from all the sail makers for the boat being produced. Same amount of time going into building the sail whether it's good cloth or real cheap cloth. Only place a sail maker can change the price of a sail is the cloth. With so many sail's being made from Laminate like Mylar the price has come down a chunk compared to 5 years ago. I priced some UK Sails for a Hunter 23 and the Cross Cut Mylar Sail was only 11% more then a Dacron Sail. Depending on use the Mylar sail could last a very long time. After sailing with UK Tape Drive on my Hunter 28.5 I could never go back to Dacron for any reason. Buy one or sail with someone who has this kind of sail and the light bulb will go off and you will see the sail shape that you read all the time that you just can't seem to see. Cliff H 28.5 "Red Dog"
Not sure why. You took the sail in to be looked at and he gave you his opnion. That said try sailing to weather with just your main. Going will be slow and and side slippage will be great. Jim is saying Shape will not matter and just roll it in and go with the main alone. I disagree you will need the head sail for power and punching through waves. Even though it is a Frac rig you will need some head sail to power through waves. On the boat when over powered putting in a reef in the main to stop it from flogging and getting back winded would make more sence and let the Jib keep driving the boat. When getting over powered and dropping down the main on the traveler it will flog and you will not get any driving force from the main. Or maybe just 40% of it. Then it is all head sail driving the boat with the main being back winded. This is all with the point of sail being to weather. Dacron Sail's have 2 lives cloth life and shape life. A Dacron sail should be recut for a fast shape every couble of years. With the Draft of the sail moved aft to 50% or more you have a terrible shape and boat will become overpowered faster and cause more healing. Point less and just not be as fun as it could be. Draft needs to be at 40% for the head sail and around 45%-50% for the main. Reason for the draft being farther back on the main sail is from turbulance from the mast. You never mentioned how old the sail's are? With the Head sail on the 26 being the only head sail you need it to have good shape for when it is blowing 5 knots or 20 knots. That Said the Luff Foam will allow it to carry some shape as it is rolled to about a 70 % head sail or when the wind comes up even more to a 30% head sail. Sail's are the driving force of the boat and good sail's will make the boat perform better. No you do not need to have top of the line racing sail's. But the shape of a Racing sail cloth will out last the shape of a crusing cloth sail. Racing sail's cloth will have a tighter weave. Also with a after market sail you might be able to carry a little more sail like a 113% or a 115% not just a 100% that came on the boat. Not to mention a sail that is closer to the deck or a Blade Jib. Hunter makes Great Boats and I have not found a better boat for the money and I am on my 3rd Hunter. Doyle,North,UK and all the top sail makers make great sail's and I would buy sail's from any one of them. But he is right you get what you pay for. So you think I am not a racer why buy racing type sail's. Fast sail's will inprove the boats handling and the distance you can sail on a weekend or a weeks vaction. Still not sure get another opnion from another loft. When the boats are made they are sold with a set of working sail's. Not the best cloth because Hunter get's quotes from all the sail makers for the boat being produced. Same amount of time going into building the sail whether it's good cloth or real cheap cloth. Only place a sail maker can change the price of a sail is the cloth. With so many sail's being made from Laminate like Mylar the price has come down a chunk compared to 5 years ago. I priced some UK Sails for a Hunter 23 and the Cross Cut Mylar Sail was only 11% more then a Dacron Sail. Depending on use the Mylar sail could last a very long time. After sailing with UK Tape Drive on my Hunter 28.5 I could never go back to Dacron for any reason. Buy one or sail with someone who has this kind of sail and the light bulb will go off and you will see the sail shape that you read all the time that you just can't seem to see. Cliff H 28.5 "Red Dog"
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Kevin Flanagan
Thanks for the comments !!
Fellas..Thanks,comments were interesting and informative. Just what I expected from this FORUM. As an aside, I don't think I'm getting hosed. I regret my comments may have been misinterpreted. I was just looking for a little bit of advice and discussion about the local sailmaker's comments on OEM sails. Thanks again !!!
Fellas..Thanks,comments were interesting and informative. Just what I expected from this FORUM. As an aside, I don't think I'm getting hosed. I regret my comments may have been misinterpreted. I was just looking for a little bit of advice and discussion about the local sailmaker's comments on OEM sails. Thanks again !!!
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Jim
To clarify
My comments to kevin were specific to the actual perfomance of a H26, It's clear that balance is imporatant on most boats, however the H26 design needs a different mind set due to the very high CG and very limited keel effects. This is a great boat and fast, but can get one in trouble quickly if prudent measures aren't taken such as full reefs that would include no headsail at +-18kts. I think if he wants to spend money that a asymetrical might be useful to compensate for the major swept back spreaders this boat has -due to the lack of a backstay.
My comments to kevin were specific to the actual perfomance of a H26, It's clear that balance is imporatant on most boats, however the H26 design needs a different mind set due to the very high CG and very limited keel effects. This is a great boat and fast, but can get one in trouble quickly if prudent measures aren't taken such as full reefs that would include no headsail at +-18kts. I think if he wants to spend money that a asymetrical might be useful to compensate for the major swept back spreaders this boat has -due to the lack of a backstay.
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