Hi gang, I'm planning on replacing most of the head/holding system on my '78 H25 next time I have her out of the water. It's going to be a few months before it happens, but I have a few things to bounce off your collective brains... Here's what I have installed currently: -- An intake under the port side of the V-birth, runs directly to -- One manual head (manufacturer unknown- Jabsco?) that has leaky seals in the pump. The discharge from the head goes to -- A 'Y' valve (broken), which allows either direct overboard discharge (below the waterline), or storage in -- A six-gallon (yep, only six) holding tank under the V-berth. Looks like it may have been a chemical-treatment tank once upon a time, but isn't currently in use that way. From the tank, the discharge line goes to a manual diaphragm pump, which then goes to the overboard discharge fitting (There's a 'Y' coupler here so the direct-overboard line can be connected to the same fitting). There is also a tank vent which pokes through the hull on the starboard side, near the rub rail. If you're observant, the reason for re-thinking this setup becomes obvious... The holding capacity is tiny, and there's no means to pump this system anywhere except overboard! ...Add to that an old leaky head, old hoses, and seacocks of questionable reliability (frozen open - I keep plugs aboard), and it starts looking like complete replacement of the system is the way to go. Here's what I'm thinking of doing: -- Replace the seacocks with ones that work properly. -- Replace the head with a Raritan Cricket. -- Replace the holding tank with one that holds AT LEAST 12 gallons, more like 15 if I can make it fit. -- Removing the 'direct-overboard' routing altogether. Here in the FL Keys, we can't pump over the side anywhere within about 20 miles, so this option is pretty much useless for us most of the time. -- Installing a 'Y' valve in the holding tank discharge line, to switch between direct overboard discharge (we DO go out that far to empty now...), and -- Installing a deck plate on the starboard side for pump-out dockside. I have a few concerns, though- -- The tank that is currently in place just barely fits in between the raw water intake (port) and the overboard discharge (stbd), requiring me to install either a taller tank (restricts access to the compartment, hose clearances) or a longer tank (enough room?). I could also move the tank to the next compartment forward (there are 2 compartments under the V-berth on a 25), but that would extend the hose run from the head to about 6 and a half feet. -- Easy access to the seacocks. I think I'm going to put some kind of access panel on the bulkhead between the locker and the head, so I don't have to rip apart the V-berth every time I need to use the head... -- Routing of the vent line and the pump-out line. Right now, the vent line is clearly visible in the corner of the V-berth... If I add a pump-out fitting, that hose would pretty much do the same thing... I wouldn't mind something more aesthetically pleasing... So, what do y'all think- Am I forgetting anything? Am I working too hard on this? Should I just buy a Pumpable porta-head, install a deck fitting, seal the seacocks, and be done with it? ;o) Any input is appreciated... --Jon Bastien H25 'Adagio' H23 '2 Sheets to the Wind' (Which still has her original porta-head!)
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
You've thought it out very well!
And a 6-7' run from the head to the tank is fine. So go to the forward compartment with the new tank...spec the vent fitting on the bow end, and take it through the chain locker out the hull about a foot below the toe rail. Btw...I think your existing tank is a Jabsco 6 gal holding tank...black, meant mostly for show, not for go. Ronco Plastics is your best source for a new tank. Http://www.ronco-plastics.com or 714-259-1385
And a 6-7' run from the head to the tank is fine. So go to the forward compartment with the new tank...spec the vent fitting on the bow end, and take it through the chain locker out the hull about a foot below the toe rail. Btw...I think your existing tank is a Jabsco 6 gal holding tank...black, meant mostly for show, not for go. Ronco Plastics is your best source for a new tank. Http://www.ronco-plastics.com or 714-259-1385
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Randall Dunn
My vote would be for a portable
You have it well thought out. I have a '75 which did not have a head when I bought it recently. Did a lot of looking and decided that, for a day cruiser that gets used every weekend and the occasional overnight, a portable works just as well. Plus I don't have to worry about problems with a seacock. Several different models including electric flush, but I found that the holding tanks were more than sufficient for my needs. Good luck and hope this helps your decision.
You have it well thought out. I have a '75 which did not have a head when I bought it recently. Did a lot of looking and decided that, for a day cruiser that gets used every weekend and the occasional overnight, a portable works just as well. Plus I don't have to worry about problems with a seacock. Several different models including electric flush, but I found that the holding tanks were more than sufficient for my needs. Good luck and hope this helps your decision.
J
Jon Bastien
Afterthoughts...
Thanks Peggie, I've read your articles in the 'Head Mistress' "Read these first!" section a few times since I discovered this site... Your help has been invaluable. The idea of venting through the chain locker hadn't occured to me. I still have openings through the hull where the factory nav lights were (they have since been replaced by a previous owner), but I think those could be adapted for venting. I'll have to check into it further... The holding tank is blue, actually, but I think you're right on the money about it being Jabsco equipment. I'll check it out tomorrow, when I'm back down to the boat. I'm a bit concerned about moving the holding tank forward for two reasons- The first being that it becomes an 'uphill' pump of 6+ feet to the holding tank (translation: A lot of flush water to rinse that discharge hose to prevent permeation...), and transfer of weight more forward on the boat (I have a hard time keeping the outboard's prop in the water as it is!). One of the things I have considered is to mount the head on a small pedestal, raising it to a level where the discharge line is nearly horizontal... (What the heck, there isn't standing headroom in the boat for me anyway!) I was also considering a custom Ronco tank to fit in the forward locker, if I go down that road... Seems it would be worth the money to have a tank that fits the shape of the boat, rather than adapting a smaller tank to the boat shape. Randall's point holds a lot of water as well (no pun intended - Really!). I do use the boat largely as a weekend cruiser, or simple overnighter, and I have a dock at a club with 'porta-head friendly' facilities. Is there any true advantage to a marine head setup like the one I already have, over a pumpable porta-head? Hmmmm... Thanks again for your input... --Jon Bastien H25 'Adagio' H23 '2 Sheets to the Wind' (Maybe sold today...)
Thanks Peggie, I've read your articles in the 'Head Mistress' "Read these first!" section a few times since I discovered this site... Your help has been invaluable. The idea of venting through the chain locker hadn't occured to me. I still have openings through the hull where the factory nav lights were (they have since been replaced by a previous owner), but I think those could be adapted for venting. I'll have to check into it further... The holding tank is blue, actually, but I think you're right on the money about it being Jabsco equipment. I'll check it out tomorrow, when I'm back down to the boat. I'm a bit concerned about moving the holding tank forward for two reasons- The first being that it becomes an 'uphill' pump of 6+ feet to the holding tank (translation: A lot of flush water to rinse that discharge hose to prevent permeation...), and transfer of weight more forward on the boat (I have a hard time keeping the outboard's prop in the water as it is!). One of the things I have considered is to mount the head on a small pedestal, raising it to a level where the discharge line is nearly horizontal... (What the heck, there isn't standing headroom in the boat for me anyway!) I was also considering a custom Ronco tank to fit in the forward locker, if I go down that road... Seems it would be worth the money to have a tank that fits the shape of the boat, rather than adapting a smaller tank to the boat shape. Randall's point holds a lot of water as well (no pun intended - Really!). I do use the boat largely as a weekend cruiser, or simple overnighter, and I have a dock at a club with 'porta-head friendly' facilities. Is there any true advantage to a marine head setup like the one I already have, over a pumpable porta-head? Hmmmm... Thanks again for your input... --Jon Bastien H25 'Adagio' H23 '2 Sheets to the Wind' (Maybe sold today...)
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
For your use, a "pumpable" portapotty might be...
the right solution. Because they use so little flush water, the 5-6 gallon models hold as many flushes as a "regular" holding tank connection to 12-15 gallon holding tank...And it sounds like that might solve more problems for you than it creates. Worst case, if it turns out not to be big enough, you might have to add another tank and a macerator or manual pump to move the waste from the portapotty to it. But if that happens, you're really no worse off than where you're starting from now. If you go that route, I would not recommend removing and glassing over the thru-hulls for your existing toilet. Sooner or later you're gonna want to move up and the next owner might have different needs. However, if you decided to stick with "plan A," I wouldn't worry too much about the uphill run. Once again, "read"...there's an article in the Reference Library called "flush with success" that explains how to keep the hoses clean without filling up the holding tank
the right solution. Because they use so little flush water, the 5-6 gallon models hold as many flushes as a "regular" holding tank connection to 12-15 gallon holding tank...And it sounds like that might solve more problems for you than it creates. Worst case, if it turns out not to be big enough, you might have to add another tank and a macerator or manual pump to move the waste from the portapotty to it. But if that happens, you're really no worse off than where you're starting from now. If you go that route, I would not recommend removing and glassing over the thru-hulls for your existing toilet. Sooner or later you're gonna want to move up and the next owner might have different needs. However, if you decided to stick with "plan A," I wouldn't worry too much about the uphill run. Once again, "read"...there's an article in the Reference Library called "flush with success" that explains how to keep the hoses clean without filling up the holding tank
M
Marvin Otto
where to find a "pumpable" portapotty
Peggy -- or whomsoever: I have wondered if such a thing as a pumpable portapotty was available but have never come across a manufacturer of such an item. I really don't need, in most circumstances, to pump overboard; actually prefer not to but would like more than the couple of gallons in my present portapotty. Any suggestions where I could find such an item?
Peggy -- or whomsoever: I have wondered if such a thing as a pumpable portapotty was available but have never come across a manufacturer of such an item. I really don't need, in most circumstances, to pump overboard; actually prefer not to but would like more than the couple of gallons in my present portapotty. Any suggestions where I could find such an item?
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
They're in all the catalogs, Marvin
They look just like any other portpotty, except they have a vent fitting and a hose connection for the pumpout. The best quality on the market is the SeaLand 965MSD...about $125 from WM.
They look just like any other portpotty, except they have a vent fitting and a hose connection for the pumpout. The best quality on the market is the SeaLand 965MSD...about $125 from WM.
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