H23.5: water enters bilge pump through-hull and runs into bilge through the pump

[Rick Macdonald]

In my recent thread "H23.5 centerboard/compression post leak", Mike (soling42) suggested water can enter the bilge pump outlet/through-hull when heeled over far enough.

Sure enough, this is indeed the cause of what I hope is my third and last leak. I've attached pictures. There are only a few inches of room for a loop above the through-hull.

How do I fix this?

 

[owner23.5]

I have a small checkmate boat that has the exact same problem I installed a rubber compression plug in the outlet hole. yes I do have to remove when I discharge my bilge, but by then I'm already on a beachfront or sandbar so isnt a big deal here

 

[soling42]

Hey Rick,
On a well built vessel there is always an air loop in the bilge pump discharge line that is well above the waterline. It'd be tough to tie up high enough inside the rail mold on a 23/240/260 but that's how it should've been done.......but never was .

Squeeze back in there and see how high you could stick a loop of discharge hose up inside the rail mold. From the look of your 2nd pic there might have been an attempt to put a loop in it but it wasn't secured and it just drooped down. Tying it up in there was my problem(along with too many dark beers around my waistline to even get in there). I considered a scupper flap over the outlet fitting but hadn't tried it(and doubt it'd even work). I wouldn't plug the bilge line under any circumstances.

Good luck. Glad my advice was worth something.

Mike and Kelli

 

[Adam678]

I added an Anti-siphon valve at the hull outlet. This stopped water from entering when heeled

 

[Rick Macdonald]

I went back to the boat and there just isn't anyway to put a loop higher than the few inches that are already there in the photo of the through-hull. All of the interior walls of this boat are liners right up against the hull, or bare hull covered with carpet.

I've done a fair bit of reading now and none of the bilge best practices are possible. I'm going to have to install a check value, likely just to the left of the through-hull which means another 90 degree elbow (or 45 degree if they make them and if it will fit pointing up to the left). The big question of course is if the little Rule 360 can pump the water past the restrictive valve.

I'm considering this valve:

http://www.thechandleryonline.com//product.asp?dept_id=316&pf_id=153_ALV1219

It seems the best is to discharge high out the transom so heeling isn't a factor, and there shouldn't be check values or vented loops as both will eventually fail. A lot of the failures however are because on bigger boats the bilge pump actually runs from time to time, and pumps out oily/greasy sea water. People install check-values to stop the backwash after the pump shuts off, which is sometimes enough water to cycle the pump again. The valves eventually clog open or shut.

I have none of that. There is no oil in the bilge. I think I would need 10 gallons of water in the boat before it even activated the bilge pump switch. The water runs up and down the storage areas against the hull under the settees, forward to the storage by the porta-pottie, and under the aft berth. There is no low point, or if there is, it isn't anywhere near the bilge pump. Water that comes in the bilge pump doesn't stay there.

With its positive flotation, the H23.5 won't sink anyway. ;-)

 

[Drew13440]

Rick: I've a 240 and have never had through hull flooding issues. How high is the hose outlet relative to the waterline? Can you move the outflow higher and plug (glass in) the existing? Can't tell from the pics. Just a thought, Drew.

 

[isaksp00]

While you're at it, I'd try to get rid of the airlock - raise the drooping part of the hose so all of it is at least as high or higher than the highest point above the through-hull. If water sits in that low point (in the right hand pic) the pump may not be able to push it out.

 

[Rick Macdonald]

Rick: How high is the hose outlet relative to the waterline? Can you move the outflow higher and plug (glass in) the existing? Can't tell from the pics. Just a thought, Drew.

This old photo shows the through-hulls if you look hard. It's the higher one, straight down from my right arm, half-way between the water and the rub rail:

http://timshel.ca/lake/pics/120-2068_IMG.JPG

The outflow could only be moved as high as the top of the loop in the picture, which wouldn't help enough. The sink drain is down and to the right at about a 45 degree angle.

 

[Drew13440]

Tuff to see...

Rick: It's hard to see from the pic, but I think (if what I see is right) that your bilge pump outlet is way too low. I don't know why they put it down there. Again, Michael has the best, first idea. Put a loop in the hose up as high as you can. Stuff it into the "floatashion," if need be. Dig some of it out if you have to. Make absolutely sure the pump is able to make the new loop and get water out. Buy and install a bigger pump if need be.

If that doesn't work, drill a new hole for the fittings up high, just below the deck joint (if you go to the rear, this part of the boat is really hard to put below the waterline) and re-do the hose. You'll have to seal the old hole, but it's not really hard.

Finally, think about where you sail and the risk of putting a hole in the boat. You don't (should'nt) have any below water line holes in the hull. You're not going to sink in a slip, so what are the chances of sinking while sailing? And what are the consequences? Crew and guests with appropriate PFD's available may be fine, rather than spending a lot of money on your bilge situation, depending on where you sail. I may get killed for saying it, but food for thought.

 

[Rick Macdonald]

All of the interior walls that are higher than the existing outlet are bare hull covered with carpet or a thin fiberglass liner with no flotation thickness to cut out for a loop. It would have to be exposed and visible.

In the attached picture, I pulled the hose up to the deck seam showing that I could cut a hole in the top of the little galley counter (where the Cooper Island drink holder is) and put the loop there, covered by some sort of box. It could even go higher than the deck seam. This might not be too bad.

The only other alternative is to run a 12 to 15 foot hose aft to the back of the boat somewhere. This run would require cutting a hole where I'd rather not cut one (through the liner above the hull near the transom aft of the berth (hard to describe) and also be somewhat exposed.

 

[soling42]

Man, I got little/nothing..... Maybe an aft facing discharge chute on the outside of the hull?? It'd be a last resort but maybe a discharge into the sink drain hose (if there is one) at an angle that'd flow toward the existing through hull?? Just don't forget to open the through hull valve every time.

Hey, I said I had little/nothing Mike

 

[Rick Webb]

Have not had that Issue

I was plagued by something close however. The rubber edge of the floating dock I was on was at the same height as the throughull outlet for the sink drain. It would loosen it up and allow water in. I think for my bilge drain line I looped it up as high as I could and tied it together at the low end to keep the loop as long as possible and stuck the loop as far up inside the liner as it would go.

 

[Rick Macdonald]

I had a brilliant idea in the shower this morning...

At a 45 degree heel, a loop vertically up the cabin wall is no more effective than a loop running horizontally away from the hull towards the boat's center-line. There's nowhere to go up the cabin wall but I can run it away from the hull under the galley counter. You can see this in my last photo above. I think this would give me a loop equivalent to going vertically even higher than the windows.

If the bilge pump ever had to pump out serious water, the boat would most likely be level, not heeled. The horizontal loop would be much less work for the pump to overcome than a high vertical loop. When the boat is heeled, water in the bilge runs away from the bilge pump anyway.

I'm back in the city so I can't take any new pictures right now, but you can get the idea from my last picture above. I would just have to make sure the horizotonal loop is protected from being knocked about since I use the storage space under the galley/sink. I could put the looped hose through a large PVC pipe, for example.

Comments on this? Sounds great to me, if I do say so myself!

 

[soling42]

What do they say up there when they've struck gold Your Eureka moment has set me off on a quest for a little longer bilge line to hopefully get a run up somewhere higher than the waterline when I'm heeled beyond good sense.

My momma always said I should shower more often.
Mike