H-26 Hull Leak

[BrianW]

I have a leak on my H-26. It leaks about an ounce an hour while in my slip.. calm seas, no rain. Is it possible I have a leak from a faulty water ballast drain gasket and could my water ballast compartment be leaking? Any ideas would be very much appreciated. Thanks.... BrianW

 

[Rick Webb]

There Was at Least One that had these issues

Had screws that were too long for the portapottie brackets and went into the ballast tank.

The bolt that holds the centerboard up and where the line comes through

Some 260s had issues with the rubrail

there are not that many places for it to leak

 

[BrianW]

Re: There Was at Least One that had these issues

Rick, thanks for the reminder about screws penetrating the ballast tank. I'll take a look. The only screws I know of are for the porta-potties hold-down brackets and the bilge pump mount. The bilge pump mounting "plate" is a built up glassed in "platform" that looks like they embedded a piece of wood. The leak is below the waterline and goes directly into the bilge, so probably not the rubrail. Where is the bolt that holds the centerboard up? Is that the access plate under the cabin table? (have never replaced centerboard line) Thanks...BrianW

 

[BrianW]

Re: There Was at Least One that had these issues

Another thought.... could I possibly have a damaged ballast tank? BrianW

 

[Rick Webb]

Thats Where it is

I think there is a plate or two siliconed in, maybe not on the 26 your line runs up inside the compresion post could be leaking there. Mot sure I'd jump righ to a damaged tank right off the bat.

 

[twodzusfittings]

Put some colored dye into the balast tank. If you end up seeing the tinted water in the bilge, you know exactly where it is coming from.

 

[BrianW]

Grim News, I Fear

This morning, I went to my H26 with all of the ideas y'all have shared. First thing I did was to "sponge dry" the bilge. Then I poured a bottle of red food coloring into the ballast tank vent. After about 20 minutes, I had accumulated a small amount of clear water. Then a barge passed by about 100 yards from my slip (ICW, Big Lagoon, Pensacola, FL). and started the boat rocking side to side. About a pint of red tinted water suddenly poured into the bilge, which my bilge pump immediately picked up. I sponge dried the bilge again and began to rock the boat by shifting my weight back and forth. A few ounces of red tinted water suddenly flowed into the bilge. Being alone, I couldn't see exactly where the ballast water was flowing into the bilge. Do y'all think this confirms a damaged ballast tank? I have a possible event that could have caused the damage in the following post. BrianW

 

[kloudie1]

Brian, there is some stuff of interest on this site..
http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=345228&highlight=ballast tank leak
I recall another thread that had pictures of the tank during construction . Ya may be able to get some places to investigate from that post..

 

[BrianW]

Possible Cause of Ballast Tank Damage

During Labor Day Weekend, my boat was on the hard on my trailer at the marina for some minor work. That weekend was the time Tropical Storm Lee came ashore in south central Louisiana with 45 MPH winds predicted. I did not consider this to be a major threat to my boat on the trailer in Pensacola, FL. I had not installed the strap over the boat since I was not traveling. That day, I was called by the marina saying my boat was about to be blown off the trailer. I got to the marina and we were having 35-40 MPH winds and VERY strong gusts. Later, I learned that an 86 MPH gust was measured about 10 miles up the coast at Orange Beach AL. Other places in the area reported 70 MPH gusts. My boat was tipped onto its side with all the weight on the port bunk, trailer fender, and the rear port trailer guide post (goal post) and being held by the winch strap. The centerboard was partially down (off the center bunk). See attached photo. With the help of some folks at the marina, we attempted to pull the boat back down, ironically, by using my unused binder strap. The photo was taken as a strong gust hit and we were lifted off the ground as it went over even further than the photo depicts. As the gust subsided, we were able to pull the boat back down and properly secure it to the trailer. So, do y'all think with all the weight on one side (one bunk and trailer fender), there could have been enough to crunch the water ballast tank? BrianW

 

[soling42]

Here's the pics of the ballast tank install at the factory. If there was no penetration or damge to the hull I doubt that the tank-to-hull joint is your problem(I sure hope not). Although the pics show the tank being laid into place on the hull, I believe the next step was to permanently glass it directly to the hull(see pics from under aft berth) which would make it an integral part of the hull and nearly indestructible.

When I pulled my compression post last year I sealed the gap between the liner and the riser for the post fitting so that any water coming from the newly seated joint would be obvious.

I also sealed the gap around the filler valve area under the step so that any water leaking from the valve or vent would be captured there too. Other than screws, those are the only penetrations (besides storm related damage) that'd cause your dye to show up.

I'm hoping that your vent plug or valve gasket under the step is leaking. caulking around that gap would readily isolate any issue there.

Good luck in your search, Mike

 

[BrianW]

Mike, thanks for the photos. I had not seen the ones of the compression post. I have also attached a Hunter photo of the centerboard bracket. How is the compression post cover plate fastened to the cabin sole? How is it removed? The ballast tank is not leaking through the vent hole or through the drain valve stem penetration. Good idea about sealing the gaps on the two risers. I had read in one of George's (Mistress of the Grand Traverse) treatises (excellent link attached) that Hunter sealed the ballast tank top to the hull with 3-M 5200. He suggests that a hard landing or grounding can break that seal. I hope this is NOT my case! I will attempt to talk to Eddie Breedon of Hunter on Monday. Before then, I plan on combing the cabin again for possible penetrations (screws, etc.) and inspecting the compression pole riser. So far, the leak is not visibly spilling onto the cabin sole.... only directly into the bilge. When I rock the boat side to side vigorously for a minute, about a 1/2 -gallon of water gushes immediately into the bilge. It appears to be a direct leak or from a pocket of trapped bilge water finding its way to the bilge. Thanks for all of your ideas and experience. Please keep them coming if anything new comes to mind. BrianW
http://h260.com/leaks/H260_leaks.html

 

[soling42]

Brian, Can't speak for the mfg process of your version but on my 2004 you can clearly see from the pics above that the tank casting is glassed onto the hull. The pic of where the guy above has his left hand on the tank lid, is also detailed in the shot below it from my boat bilge and you can see that the lid is glassed down with heavy glass matt. I'd heard conversations about tanks being initially set in place with 5200 but it's hard to imagine that it'd be the final assembly connection for something so critical. If it failed you'd have to destroy the boat to get back at the joint. Properly glassed into place it'd stiffen the hull and act as another structural bulkhead(just a flooded bulkhead).

There are pockets and indentations up on the tank sides that could hold water until you rock the boat but that sounds like a lot of water. Look carefully at the tank pics to imagine how it aligns under the floor liner and then look for errant screws, moisture, cracks or damage. It's a pretty straight forward lid casting with only two upper penetrations, one at the compression post and another at the valve.

Most boats are built like a big Club sandwich. On ours the molded sections are layered together something like: Hull, tank lid, interior liner, tabbed cabinetry and then deck. The liner isnt really an integral part of the ballast in any way but it makes finding below deck leaks impossible.

The compression post has a SS fitting(also shown in the background of your CB pic behind the CB assy) that's glued/caulked to the tank riser where it sits on a matching riser in the hull where the CB bracket goes up into the hull. When you bolt the CB bracket in I believe it sandwiches the hull, SS compression post fitting and tank lid together. The interior floor liner is seperate and glued down to the tank/hull. I'd check the compression post base for leaks and caulk up both riser gaps between the floor liner and the risers to isolate any possibility of it's location.

I'm sure you'll find your leak and that it won't be a catastrophic issue. I just found my crazy rainy day leak(gal/hr) and it was a pin hole in the middle of the upper deck under a jib sheet where it dammed water, guiding it into the hole and couldn't be readily seen. For weeks I pulled out my hair and every deck fitting and all the windows were re-bedded before I spent 10seconds cramming a dot sized piece of butyl tape into the pinhole. Back to sanity.... at least my version

Good luck. Mike

 

[Lucky Day]

My 260 had a small leak on the galley through haul fitting that is below waterline, does your 26h have sink drains below water line ?

 

[BrianW]

When the centerboard bolt head leaks into the surrounding riser, where does the leaked water drain to.... immediately and eventually? At boat now sticking my head into every nook and crany! BrianW

 

[BrianW]

I inspected the centerboard bolt. It and the surrounding area were wet enough to gradually soak a paper towel, but I didn't actually see any water leaking. It's more like a seep. Can water also leak around the edge of the bracket plate along its sealing surface? What type of caulking is recommended? Do I simply put caulk around the outer bolt head and adjacent plate? Can I put the caulk on while the bolt and plate are still wet, but after wiping off? Thanks, BrianW

 

[BrianW]

Sunhunter, my sink thru-hull is about 4 inches above the waterline, but in rough water, water splashes onto the exterior fitting. I do have a small leak under the sink. I checked the sink and bilge hoses and fittings... no leaks from these. I found a ragged poorly adhering blob of caulk on the bottom (floor) surface in that area that the previous owner put in. I'll take a closer look at this when I have the proper caulk to repair it after scraping off the old. Thanks for your suggestion! BrianW

 

[soling42]

Brian,
If you have found a leak at the compression post it can run down and across the tank lid where it'll accumulate on the sides or top until the boat is heeled when it'll suddenly cascade aft where it'll look like a flash flood.

It's not likely that you'll get a good seal on a leak while the boat is in the water. Put it on the trailer, clean the area well and hit the suspect area with a heatgun/hair dryer and then lather it with some fast dry 3m 5200. people howl at the use of 5200 like it's some kind of epoxy but it turns to putty with a little heat when it's time to remove it.

Again, fill both of the riser gaps with any good caulking to isolate any leak and to keep it from running elsewhere. Hope that's your leak. The lead on a leaky through hull is a good one except you'd said that there was red dye in the bilge water. leaks are the bane of sailors. good luck, Mike

 

[BrianW]

Discussions with Hunter Marine

I spoke with Eddie Breedon with Hunter Marine. His info along with the info from the folks from this forum have given me a game plan. From y'alls opinions and from Eddie, it is highly unlikely the ballast tank is leaking from a damaged structural seal. He confirmed that the ballast tank top is first sealed to the hull with 3-M 5200 .... but then, the whole ballast tank top/hull joint is fiberglassed in.

From y'alls and Eddie's info, then my leak survey, I was able to determine I have SEVERAL leaks, but one bad leak. The bad leak is likely from a broken seal between the centerboard bracket upper S.S plate (the plate in the cabin that the large centerboard bolt goes through and the compression post rests on) and the centerboard trunk. It primarily leaks in rough seas or while the boat is under way. This may, or may not have been caused by the rough treatment on my trailer during Tropical storm Lee. At any rate, Eddie advised me to have the boat lifted, centerboard dropped, 3-M 5200 applied to the bottom side of the bracket plate, and the centerboard re-installed. Of course, he advised to replace the uphaul line while I'm there. I'm already forming a list of what to do during my 1-hour lift.