Gusty days

[Manny]

Don, this is probably a very general question, but what recommendations do you have for sail trim on very gusty days? On Sunday we went out for a short sail and I really had my hands full. The wind was gusting probably close to 20 knots but it was very erratic. It would be about 5 knots, then a minute later 10 knots, back to 5, then we would get blasted! I started with full sails on a beam reach, then I reefed the main, then rolled in the genny to a little over 100%, then finally I dropped the main entirely but let the genny all the way out. The blocks were pretty far back. That last setting was the most comfortable but I lost quite a bit of speed. On the stronger gusts we'd still round up pretty good and experience lots of heeling. Then the wind would die and the genny would luff. I wasn't the only one having problems, I saw a bunch of other sailboats either with sails luffing badly or the rails buried. In those situations would you recommend trimming for the big gusts and then bearing off a little more down wind during the lighter moments?

Thanks,

Manny

 

[Barnacle Bill]

I.m not Don, but might have some ideas. Not sure if you have a masthead rig or fractional, but when sailing close hauled (very close hauled), you can feather the boat to weather. Your inside telltale should be straight up and the outside one straight back. Your vang should be very tight and as the wind increases your traveler should be lowered (leeward). As a gust hits, dump your traveler. Keep sticking the boat into the wind (feather it) and you will be surprised how well you can sail to weather under control. If you fall off some, then you will get knocked over. If you are sailing deep and in a down wind direction, when the winds are lighter, you can sail higher to increase the apparent wind. When the gust hits, fall off and and go more downwind and your boat will accelerate with control. When the wind gust ends, then you can sail higher without heeling so much. If you continue to sail higher during the gust, it will knock you over, but if you fall off, you will just ride the gust with less apparent wind to knock you over and you will increase your speed (that increases the fun factor). Other things you can do is move your genoa car forward which will add twist to the top to help depower your sail which will decrease the heeling affect. If the gusts are coming fast, then fine adjustment of your draft might not be possible. Make sure you don't have too much sail area up to over power the boat. Hope this gives you some ideas.

 

[Franklin]

ummmm.....no. Moving cars forward reduce twist.

What to do in gusty days depends on what you want out of the sail. Are you racing? Are you wanting a relaxing sail? Are you wanting an exciting sail?

Relaxing I'd go with just the main for a reach on a day like that.

For performance in a race, I'd go with a full main with full headsail and dump the traveler on heavy gusts. If still too much power after dumping the traveler, then reef the main.

For exciting, I'd go with a reef or two and fall off from a reach to downwind in gusts and only dump the traveler when needed.

That's just a guess when I don't know how the helm on your boat is when healed over with full headsail and reefed main.

 

[Ted]

Franklin is correct and caught the error of Barnacle Bill's post. Moving the genoa lead forward will reduce twist and that is the opposite of what you want to do in strong winds. Move the lead further aft to induce twist. If you have adjustable leads, the good type that can easily be adjusted under load, you can play them like you would a traveller. As the gust hits or slightly before, move your genoa lead aft to induce twist. You might also want to try to ease the genoa sheet at the same time. As the gust subsides, move the lead forward again to reduce twist and power up the genoa again. You should also drop the traveller in a gust and bring it up to weather in the lulls. All the while you should try to match the twist in the main with the twist in the genoa. This keeps the crew busy while racing on a gusty day while maintaining a manageable heel angle and consistently good boat speed.

 

[Joe]

Move the jib cars back. Make everything flat. Set twist in main... I use the mainsheet upwind, others might recommend the vang... but I think it's easier to play the traveller and mainsheet than to play the vang. Anyway, when the gust comes the apparent wind will move forward, so drop the traveller and head up a bit. In a big gust you might need to twist off the main more so ease out the mainsheet (or vang).

Also...... put some ballast on the windward rail (that would be yourself and crew)

 

[Warren Milberg]

Manny:
I had two sails in the past two weeks where I experienced similar wind conditions on the Bay. One day, the wind ranged from about 8 kts to gusts near 30kts and kept going back and forth. If you are sailing alone, as I was, it is nearly impossible to find the "right" sail trim particularly when the conditions change rapidly back and forth. Yet I've found that I can roll up my 150 headsail, with its foam luff, to just about any size needed. The conventional wisdom of only being able to roll a headsail up to about 70-80 per cent just doesn't seem to apply, at least in my case. In boats of our size, I also find that I can keep the mainsheet in my hand at the helm and dump more wind from main if I am being overpowered even with the traveller all the way to leeward -- like sailing a big dinghy. When gust passes, I can then re-trim the main. Without crew, I find rollling the headsail in, or letting it out, keeping the traveller mostly down, trying to read the headers headed your way before they hit, is about all one can do in dealing with such conditions.

 

[Benny]

Don't know if your boat is equipped with a traveler or even a boom vang as the Cherubini h27 did not come with either from factory. The Genoa fairleads consists of blocks attached to the perforated rail and are almost impossible to move under load. Perhaps lacking many sail controls your options may be limited in those conditions. I think Franklin hit it on the core when he referred to the intended type of sail. A comfortable performance sail would be out of the question without much work while a leisure slow sail would be quite possible. I would roll up the Genoa to approx 60% and fly the full main and concentrate on beverages and scenery rather than precise sail trim and speed.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Gusty or Gutsy?

There's also the wiggle course. Instead of trying to maintain a relatively (i.e., sailboat) straight course, you head up in the puffs/gusts and fall off in the lulls. Admittedly these are WAY bigger than normal wind varieties, but doable with a single sail setup. That sized jib is way too much for winds over 18 anyway ("genoa"0 for "cruising". Agree on reefing the main - you lose when it's a long lull, but who's in a hurry anyway, if you were it'd be a different question.

 

[fifedog]

Manny, sailed in the same conditions Sunday (11-1pm). I just let the jib out full, and never had to think of raising the main. Steady 15 mph west winds kept us moving pretty good. It was a pretty sail, capped off with the Pride of Baltimore II heading south out of the Patapsco. BTW, Pride was only flying her 2 jibs and the top sail on the foreward mast.

 

[Manny]

The 1980 Hunter 27 has a mast head rig. This model is notorious for weather helm. I don't have jib cars, Benny is right - the blocks are attached to the toe rails, they take some work to move forward or back but I have them pretty far back to induce twist. Benny is also right that I don't have a traveller. I always have to dump the main sheet during gusts to keep the boat pointing where I want it. When I had the main up I had it really flat. Interesting that it was mentioned to fall off and head down wind during the gusts. I've never thought of doing that but I'm going to try it and see what happens. The conditions this past Sunday were such that as soon as I finished making a change in trim, the wind speed changed at that point and the process started all over again. I tried to read the water but I found it difficult. I've noticed on my boat when I release the traveller all the way in higher winds I still get a little more speed than if I am just on jib, even if it doesn't look like the main is contributing. I'm not out to race, only sailing to relax, but my definition of relaxing is anything over 4 knots of speed - LOL.
Thanks for the suggestions, keep them coming if you got more!

Manny

 

[Franklin]

Whether you fall off or point higher in gusts has a lot to do with the original AWA you are on. If your AWA is near 90, then falling off is a great tactic, but if you are closer to 50 or 60, then turning into the wind is best. I said to fall off because you said you where on a beam reach so falling off seems like a better option. However, I have to note that if the gusts are too strong, you will not be able to fall off. I know on my boat I can't go from a broach reach to a run when the winds hit 30 and I have all my sails up....the boat broaches until I dump the traveler. That's one good thing about the fractional rigs, when you dump the traveler, you really are dumping a lot of power

 

[Don Guillette]

A while back I owned a 1969 Corvette (stick shift) and I enjoyed twisty roads that required a lot of shifting and braking. On a sail boat it is a different story. I do not enjoy sailing in gusty winds especially since 95% of the time I was single handling the boat. My wife was just along for the ride. If it was gusty conditions I would not even bother leaving the dock and the reason was it was just to much work for me.

In the rare ocassions I got caught in gusty conditions this is how I delt with it. The first thing I did was flatten both the main and jib as far as it would go. The reason for that is a flat sail is a less powerful sail. I'd see how that worked. I might add twist to both sails and see how that works. The mainsail control I used the most in gust is the traveler. I didn't both much with the jib because I had it depowered as much as I could. If I really got sick of the conditions and got tired of fighting them I'd just roll up the jib and stow the main and motor back to the marina.

 

[Manny]

Flattening the jib

A while back I owned a 1969 Corvette (stick shift) and I enjoyed twisty roads that required a lot of shifting and braking. On a sail boat it is a different story. I do not enjoy sailing in gusty winds especially since 95% of the time I was single handling the boat. My wife was just along for the ride. If it was gusty conditions I would not even bother leaving the dock and the reason was it was just to much work for me.

In the rare ocassions I got caught in gusty conditions this is how I delt with it. The first thing I did was flatten both the main and jib as far as it would go. The reason for that is a flat sail is a less powerful sail. I'd see how that worked. I might add twist to both sails and see how that works. The mainsail control I used the most in gust is the traveler. I didn't both much with the jib because I had it depowered as much as I could. If I really got sick of the conditions and got tired of fighting them I'd just roll up the jib and stow the main and motor back to the marina.

Don, how do you flatten the jib? Is it simply a matter of sheeting it in as tight as possible?

'69 Corvette - sweet

Manny

 

[RichH]

Manny - you probably had 2 things going on at the same time.

Your boat has a very shallow keel and if 'pressed' while beating has the nasty habit of 'tripping over the keel' (violently and suddenly 'rounding up' and almost broaching while beating! .... due to the H27s propensity to 'skidding off to leeward'). With the short keel (good for sailing in gusts!) and when 'well heeled over', the helm will develop what feels like but isnt 'weather helm' .... next time you 'think' youre developing weather helm when in similar conditions - look at the wake to be sure that its coming nearly straight off the stern and not angling off to weather as the boat skids. A long time ago, I used to crew/race the Cherubini H27. If the boat IS 'skidding' the only way to keep good control is flatten or reef down (2nd reef if necessary)so you can sail more 'straight up'. When sailing upwind, helm pressure tells you when to reef on a H27.

In gusty conditions, and as other posters listed, you have to flatten the sails (jib fairleads back to depower and allow the top to twist off), if the boat is being pressed too far over during a gust (with the traveller dropped) .... THEN its time to put in the second reef. Sail on mostly the (#3, etc.) jib, and closed traveller in the slows but play/drop that traveller in the blows. You dont want a H27 to be over on her beam ends when beating and heeled 'way over' .... sail her upright (by deeper reefing, etc.) and she'll behave.

BTW - it was gusting way over 25kts. down near Still Pond .... and the gusts were 'quartering' from the 'base wind' by about 45-50 degrees .... a busy time for those on the helms.

 

[fifedog]

HavreDeGrace on a chart looks intimidating enough to get into during good conditions (long narrow channel,shoaling), let alone taking the H27 out on a blustery day (underpowered diesel). Manny, what navigational route do you choose when you get in and out of your home port?

 

[Manny]

Hey Fifedog

It's not a big deal getting in and out of Havre De Grace. The channel is narrow but just stay inside the buoys and you're fine. Actually it's a pretty short section that you have to be really careful, approximately between Green 15 and Red 6. Don't try to go on the eastern side of red 14 and watch out around Fishing Battery, don't get to close to that island, especially at low tide (don't ask me how I know). Once a little past Red 6 where the channel dog legs at Spesutie Island I can head east pretty confidently but I have to mind the crab pots. Across the channel from Fishing Battery there are two islands marked as spoils, on a nice weekend there are a lot of boats anchored there. Actually at this point in the season in some areas it's possible to get a little advance notice before your about to run aground. The underwater vegetation is pretty thick in the shallow spots and will literally stop you on days with light wind!
Normally, since I mostly day sail, the wind direction dictates where I'm going to sail. There is a pretty decent size "triangle" for sailing from the train bridge to just above Stump Point (on the Perryville side) over to the HdG city marina. Somedays I'll sail in that area for a few hours just tacking back and forth or If I have a beam reach down the channel I'll head that way and come back. Although I haven't sailed up the Susquehanna above the train bridge, I have motored up that way and the river is nice and wide.

Manny

 

[fifedog]

Re: Hey Fifedog

Thanks for the intell. Would like to sail up there one day. My mom likes decoys, and I understand there's a pretty good museum there.