Gudgeon Help

[BlueKells]

Hello all,
Just to give you a little background info, since this is my first post. I just purchased a 1977 28 Kells, which needs some TLC. My intent is to sail it to the Bahamas this summer with two friends of mine. On the list is replacing the three gudgeons. I removed a gudgeon and a pintle and i was curious if anyone could help me find replacements. the specifications needed for the gudgeon are as follows: width: 3 1/2 in height: 2 1/2 in thickness: 1/4 in. i believe the pintle is 5/8 if that makes sense since i have not been able to find a gudgeon that fits that size. perhaps I am measuring it wrong?
I am asking here because i have searched elsewhere for them but to no avail. I also now know that there were only about 50 of these boats made. Thank you for any help.

 

[caguy]

I gather from the picture that the gudgeon had a tube welded to it. If you still have the parts can't you have them re-welded? The gudgeons on the Mac are made of bent 90* ss plates. If you fashioned it after that design it would be simple to manufacture and you could copy the same screw hole pattern.

 

[BlueKells]

Unfortunately I did not recieve the tube when i purchased it. Though I am prepared to have them manufactured. Are there any positives/negatives on a tube versus a bent plate design?

 

[caguy]

Unfortunately I did not recieve the tube when i purchased it. Though I am prepared to have them manufactured. Are there any positives/negatives on a tube versus a bent plate design?

Most of the newer boats I've seen use bent gudgeons. I don't see any disadvantage. Advantage is no welds to break. The Ida rudder is set up this way. If you don't want to bend, use a piece of ss angle.

 

[Dan H]

You're measuring it right.
IMOH I would not use those bent little gudgeons on anything more than a dinghy.
If it was mine, I would take all of the gudgeons and pintles off and haul them to a weld shop and have them inspected and re-made if necessary. Easy job for a welding shop, especially one in Florida where they weld on boat stuff all the time. Have them check them over and fix any questionable welds.
Ask them to reinforce the welds with gussets. Build them strong. Any good welding shop will know exactly what to do.
That's what I'd do.
Dan

 

[sailingdog]

I wouldn't have them re-weld the old ones...I'd recommend having new ones fabricated. Having the old ones re-welded can cause serious alloy compatibility issues unless you know which alloy of stainless steel they were made with and use the right welding wire. Welds tend to be more prone to corrosion than the steel itself, and using mixed alloys in the weld almost guarantees problems, especially in a piece that is underwater most of the time.

 

[Lee]

Re-fabrication is definitely the way to go here. This is small potatoes for a good mahine shop. Have nothing welded, this can be made from the same stock and go bigger if the space is available.

On a second note of interest, We had some keel bolts replaced recently, two of the stainless steel ones broke off at the top of the keel in a Hunter 27 all lead keel. The boat yard ordered (one would think these 'sister' bolts would be easier to come by) bolts, lag on one side for the lead, 1/2" standard thread on the other 10" long.
For basic engineering, lead is incompressable, and a 33/64" drill bit was needed.
The yard ended up using a 1/2" bit saying "Oh, we do this all the time, not to worry".
After drilling, pouring epoxy into the dirlled hole, then screwing in the lag section of the bolt into the keel, it bulged out a section of the keel, and cracked all the paint as it obviously had no where else to go so blew out at the side of the keel closest to the drilled hole.
The answer that is in the works: cut out a small section of the keel, set a nut and washer inside, tighten up with all thread now with washers and nuts at the top of the keel, then epoxy the space inside the keel section.

I write this for anyone that will need to have keel bolts replaced, or thinks that boatyards, this is a top-notch and most expensive yard around, are precise and use all the very best materials and or tools. They do NOT have odd ball size drill bits for 1/2" keel bolts, can easily order them and have them in stock for 18.00.

 

[Ron20324]

I don't know what the cost would be, but if the metal shop has a "scrap" of metal big enough, make the gudgeon out of a solid block. Drill the hole for the pintle and 4 mount holes. No welding- no bending.

 

[Dan H]

I never said anything about re-welding. You're right, that could be a bad thing. If the welds are cracked or in poor quality, have them re-made completely.
Having new ones made using a welding procedure will last as long as the original ones did, 35 years. That oughta do.

 

[sailingdog]

caguy did.

I never said anything about re-welding. You're right, that could be a bad thing. If the welds are cracked or in poor quality, have them re-made completely.
Having new ones made using a welding procedure will last as long as the original ones did, 35 years. That oughta do.

 

[caguy]

If he had the original parts I see nothing wrong with grinding off the old welds and rewelding. If you look at the picture of the crappy original welds its no wonder they failed. A good clean solid bead should last the life of the boat. IMHO In this case KISS makes sense.

 

[sailingdog]

Not if the wrong welding rod is used... if the pieces are 304 and the weld is 316... then you'll have issues... especially in salt water...New ones, properly made up, will not have that concern.

If he had the original parts I see nothing wrong with grinding off the old welds and rewelding. If you look at the picture of the crappy original welds its no wonder they failed. A good clean solid bead should last the life of the boat. IMHO In this case KISS makes sense.

 

[BlueKells]

Thanks everybody for the input/advice. I am heading to the machine shop sometime this week, with a custom design for gudgeons, sort of a hybrid. I'll upload pics once there finished.