Hi Peggy, This one has me stumped. Pump works fine in wet mode. When I switch to dry pump, the pump lever has to much resistance. It will not go down without constant pressure on the knob. I then disconnected the hose from the bowl rim to the side of the pump. Placed a can at the connection end to catch any water, and pumped. About 1 cup of water came out (of the pump side). Was then able to pump the bowl dry with no resistance. When I reattached the hose and pumped, no resistance was present. I then poured some water into the bowl and pumped it dry with no resistance. I disassembled the check valve assembly to make sure everything was working. It appears to be fine. I did rebuild the pump about 3 weeks ago as it was shot. I then opened the seacock and wet pumped the head. Again no problem. When I try to pump it dry, you quessed it, the resistance is back. My tank vent is clean with no blockage. HELP!!!
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Use of fresh water only, for MSD bowl flushing
Peggy: Although I have not seen you say so explicitly, I infer from your recent comments that it is not a good idea to use only fresh water from the sink in the head (pouring it into the toilet bowl)for flushing, because this practice can leave raw water in the head intake line for a long time leading to decay and smell. If this is correct, I presume that a better practice would be to use raw water routinly for flushing, and use fresh for cleaning out the discharge line out of the bowl when closing down tha boat for a week of disuse. Do I understand this correctly? We have an almost new boat (Hunter 306, pumped out 3 times) which has had Raritan K.O. vinegar, and fresh water flushing used faithfully as per your instructions. But we are recently experiencing some smelly gas bubbles back from the toilet bowl when pumping it out (at the end of the hand pumping cycle) using fresh water in the bowl in dry-pump mode. The vent line is clear,(visually checked by flushing vent thru with fresh water), and we appear to be pumping bowl discharge thru to the holding tank. But the boat has a discharge line which goes under the after berth and then up over the holding tank (which is behind the berth) for a horizontal loop above the holding tank prior to entry into the top of the tank. Actually it is a horizontal loop turned on its edge above the tank. The part of the discharge line under the after berth is hard pipe. The rest of the line aft of the berth is flexible black hose with the typical corrugated walls found in flexible hoses that big. Is there any hope of ever pumping such rough-walled hose really clear of waste?
Peggy: Although I have not seen you say so explicitly, I infer from your recent comments that it is not a good idea to use only fresh water from the sink in the head (pouring it into the toilet bowl)for flushing, because this practice can leave raw water in the head intake line for a long time leading to decay and smell. If this is correct, I presume that a better practice would be to use raw water routinly for flushing, and use fresh for cleaning out the discharge line out of the bowl when closing down tha boat for a week of disuse. Do I understand this correctly? We have an almost new boat (Hunter 306, pumped out 3 times) which has had Raritan K.O. vinegar, and fresh water flushing used faithfully as per your instructions. But we are recently experiencing some smelly gas bubbles back from the toilet bowl when pumping it out (at the end of the hand pumping cycle) using fresh water in the bowl in dry-pump mode. The vent line is clear,(visually checked by flushing vent thru with fresh water), and we appear to be pumping bowl discharge thru to the holding tank. But the boat has a discharge line which goes under the after berth and then up over the holding tank (which is behind the berth) for a horizontal loop above the holding tank prior to entry into the top of the tank. Actually it is a horizontal loop turned on its edge above the tank. The part of the discharge line under the after berth is hard pipe. The rest of the line aft of the berth is flexible black hose with the typical corrugated walls found in flexible hoses that big. Is there any hope of ever pumping such rough-walled hose really clear of waste?
I didn't say that...
There's no reason why, if you want to make the extra effort to use the shower head, you can't leave the seacock closed and use it to flush the toilet. However, if you've ever used sea water and didn't flush it all out of the intake and channel in the rim of the bowl, it's gonna stagnate and stink...but even fresh water can stagnate and stink if it's left to sit in a hose long enough, especially in summer heat. "I presume that a better practice would be to use raw water routinly for flushing, and use fresh for cleaning out the discharge line out of the bowl when closing down tha boat for a week of disuse. Do I understand this correctly?" Not quite. It's stagnant water trapped in the INTAKE line, pump and channel in the rim of the bowl that creates the worst odors after the boat has sat...so just cleaning out the discharge line won't solve that problem...you have to flush out the whole system. Since nothing that goes into the bowl is recirculated through the intake (thank God!), the only way to clean out the intake is to tee a source of clean fresh water into the intake line. As for your smelly gas "burps"...something downstream of the toilet is creating backpressure. If it's not the tank vent, it has to be somewhere in the head discharge line...and it's creating quite a bit of backpressure to send "burps" back through a joker valve in your toilet discharge that hasn't had any more wear than yours has had. Since the boat is new (less than a year old), IMO it's the dealer's problem to solve under warranty. I don't THINK that Hunter or any other boat builder would use corrugated hose in a sanitation system...they did 20 years ago, but know better than to use it now. However, if they did, that section of hose could be where your problem is...waste may have built up in it enough to cause problems. Is there a y-valve in the head discharge line? If so,it could be the culprit...something may be preventing it from completely opening the side to the tank. It's hard to do more than make educated guesses without actually seeing what's going on for myself...and that's about all I can think of from here.
There's no reason why, if you want to make the extra effort to use the shower head, you can't leave the seacock closed and use it to flush the toilet. However, if you've ever used sea water and didn't flush it all out of the intake and channel in the rim of the bowl, it's gonna stagnate and stink...but even fresh water can stagnate and stink if it's left to sit in a hose long enough, especially in summer heat. "I presume that a better practice would be to use raw water routinly for flushing, and use fresh for cleaning out the discharge line out of the bowl when closing down tha boat for a week of disuse. Do I understand this correctly?" Not quite. It's stagnant water trapped in the INTAKE line, pump and channel in the rim of the bowl that creates the worst odors after the boat has sat...so just cleaning out the discharge line won't solve that problem...you have to flush out the whole system. Since nothing that goes into the bowl is recirculated through the intake (thank God!), the only way to clean out the intake is to tee a source of clean fresh water into the intake line. As for your smelly gas "burps"...something downstream of the toilet is creating backpressure. If it's not the tank vent, it has to be somewhere in the head discharge line...and it's creating quite a bit of backpressure to send "burps" back through a joker valve in your toilet discharge that hasn't had any more wear than yours has had. Since the boat is new (less than a year old), IMO it's the dealer's problem to solve under warranty. I don't THINK that Hunter or any other boat builder would use corrugated hose in a sanitation system...they did 20 years ago, but know better than to use it now. However, if they did, that section of hose could be where your problem is...waste may have built up in it enough to cause problems. Is there a y-valve in the head discharge line? If so,it could be the culprit...something may be preventing it from completely opening the side to the tank. It's hard to do more than make educated guesses without actually seeing what's going on for myself...and that's about all I can think of from here.
I THINK I know what your problem is...
It has to be one of two things: either you didn't get the flapper valve at the top of the pump installed correctly (make sure it isn't upside down and is seated properly) when you rebuilt the toilet...or the cam (wet/dry valve in the pump) is broken and is hanging up in the dry position. If you have a lot of resistance when moving the wet/dry lever, it's the cam. If you can't solve it, call John Clye at Groco (that's who I just talked to...I don't pretend to know ALL the answers, just most of 'em and where to find the rest): 410-712-4242
It has to be one of two things: either you didn't get the flapper valve at the top of the pump installed correctly (make sure it isn't upside down and is seated properly) when you rebuilt the toilet...or the cam (wet/dry valve in the pump) is broken and is hanging up in the dry position. If you have a lot of resistance when moving the wet/dry lever, it's the cam. If you can't solve it, call John Clye at Groco (that's who I just talked to...I don't pretend to know ALL the answers, just most of 'em and where to find the rest): 410-712-4242
Thanks...
I'll check it tomorrow when I go to the boat. I believe I set the flapper valve in the correct position, but I'll double check. Thanks for John's phone #. I'll call him from the boat if I can't find the problem.
I'll check it tomorrow when I go to the boat. I believe I set the flapper valve in the correct position, but I'll double check. Thanks for John's phone #. I'll call him from the boat if I can't find the problem.
GrocoHF
H2O intake head problems can be caused by the check valve (located in the intake line usually near pump)being stuck (a fitting with a little ball inside that keeps water flowing in only one direction). They can be jammed due to expansion from winter freezing. A very simple fix which accounts for much novice frustration. The pump is an excellent one when understood and will last forever. Just remember to not flush that which hasn't been eaten first!
H2O intake head problems can be caused by the check valve (located in the intake line usually near pump)being stuck (a fitting with a little ball inside that keeps water flowing in only one direction). They can be jammed due to expansion from winter freezing. A very simple fix which accounts for much novice frustration. The pump is an excellent one when understood and will last forever. Just remember to not flush that which hasn't been eaten first!
There shouldn't be a check valve in the intake
line, Scott...there shouldn't be ANYthing in the line between the thru-hull and the pump. If you didn't install it, apparently a PO did...thinking it was the right way to prevent water from rising the bowl...but it's the wrong solution. The right solution is a vented loop that's at least 6-8" above the waterline at any angle of heel. It does not go in the line between the thru-hull and the pump, but between the pump and the bowl, to replace the short piece of hose from the top of the pump to the back of the bowl. There shouldn't be any winter freezing in the line either, if the toilet is winterized correctly. I suspect you've been just been pouring antifreeze into the bowl to winterize...not the right way to do that either, 'cuz if you only pour antifreeze down the toilet, it doesn't get into the intake line, channel in the rim of the bowl or anything else except the bottom of the pump and the discharge hose. More than one owner who thought that all he had to do was pour antifreeze into the bowl and flush it into the tank come back to his boat in the spring to find that bowl had cracked at the inlet in the back of it. To winterize correctly, it's necessary to disconnect the intake line from the thru-hull, stick it in a jug of non-toxic potable marine/rv antifreeze and pump the antifreeze all the way through the system to the holding tank. It's not necessary to flush ONLY what you've eaten first...any marine toilet can easily "swallow" reasonable amounts of quick-dissolve TP too. Just don't put anything ELSE down it. The HF pump IS a good one for the money, and will indeed last a long time--not forever, but a good 8-10 years--if understood and maintained correctly (which, btw, also includes keeping it well lubricated). We'll get you there.
line, Scott...there shouldn't be ANYthing in the line between the thru-hull and the pump. If you didn't install it, apparently a PO did...thinking it was the right way to prevent water from rising the bowl...but it's the wrong solution. The right solution is a vented loop that's at least 6-8" above the waterline at any angle of heel. It does not go in the line between the thru-hull and the pump, but between the pump and the bowl, to replace the short piece of hose from the top of the pump to the back of the bowl. There shouldn't be any winter freezing in the line either, if the toilet is winterized correctly. I suspect you've been just been pouring antifreeze into the bowl to winterize...not the right way to do that either, 'cuz if you only pour antifreeze down the toilet, it doesn't get into the intake line, channel in the rim of the bowl or anything else except the bottom of the pump and the discharge hose. More than one owner who thought that all he had to do was pour antifreeze into the bowl and flush it into the tank come back to his boat in the spring to find that bowl had cracked at the inlet in the back of it. To winterize correctly, it's necessary to disconnect the intake line from the thru-hull, stick it in a jug of non-toxic potable marine/rv antifreeze and pump the antifreeze all the way through the system to the holding tank. It's not necessary to flush ONLY what you've eaten first...any marine toilet can easily "swallow" reasonable amounts of quick-dissolve TP too. Just don't put anything ELSE down it. The HF pump IS a good one for the money, and will indeed last a long time--not forever, but a good 8-10 years--if understood and maintained correctly (which, btw, also includes keeping it well lubricated). We'll get you there.
Called Groco...
and spoke to John. I am sending the pump to Groco as he went UMM? as well. I'll let you know what it was when I get it back next week.
and spoke to John. I am sending the pump to Groco as he went UMM? as well. I'll let you know what it was when I get it back next week.
Got it back...
and it now works. Turned out to be the cam. In the process, Groco found a crack in the pump body. I now have a new pump at a great price. Groco was fast in the turn around and I recieved the pump the next day. What more can I say but I am very satisfied and will recommend Groco to anyone.
and it now works. Turned out to be the cam. In the process, Groco found a crack in the pump body. I now have a new pump at a great price. Groco was fast in the turn around and I recieved the pump the next day. What more can I say but I am very satisfied and will recommend Groco to anyone.
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