Just finished reading Fastnet, Force 10 about the 1979 Fastnet race and Fatal Storm about the '98 Sydney Hobart race. Both great reads, Fatal Storm is probably a little better. Reinforced my belief that you better be a whole lot more than a casual weekend sailor before you venture offshore. Can't help but think that if Ken Barnes had read, or if he did read them, taken the lessons to heart, then maybe we wouldn't be hearing about him. Only other comment about him is that I heard one of the news anchors on (NBC I think) refer to him as an "expert" sailor. As a novice sailor I'll say that if he's an "expert" them I'm the King of Siam.
Great Reading
- Thread starter Hugh4753
- Start date
- Status
just readthe cruise of the German Raider Atlanta
Good for the info it contains about the ocean. In two years, not a big storm was mentioned. I thought it was a good "management" book, a must read for anyone in Management.
Good for the info it contains about the ocean. In two years, not a big storm was mentioned. I thought it was a good "management" book, a must read for anyone in Management.
The real Fastnet pearls are on the last pages!
This was one of nature's largesr and most costly "seaworthiness experiments". The conclusions that can be drawn from the great amount of anecdotal data accumulated by John Rousmaniere with a minimum of preconceived notions, remain costly jewels of information for aspiring offsgore sailors, even more than a quarter century after the fact. IMHO, the real "beef" is in only table with numerical data (somewhere at the very end) showing the percantage of vessels sailing into serious harm for each boat length category. The conclusions that I drew from this table are a bit different, however, than what quite a few traditionalist cruisers appear to have concluded. Whereas they see a confirmation of their love affair with relatively heavy, fullkeelded and narrow-beamed "bluewater" vessels, I read only.... Well, why not let you decide that for yourself. John Rousmaniere's books (including the Annapolis Book of Seamanship adopted by ASA for their sailboating certification courses) greatly influenced my own choices and approaches after we bought Rivendel II in 1991 and gradually started preparing her for serious offshore work (initially just to survive overnighting to fabulous San Miguel, or other favorite dive spots, in the California Channel Islands) Rob Mundle's "Fatal Storm" and also Derek Lundy's "Godforsaken Sea"; chronicling the ill-fated 1998 Sydney-Hobart race make for an interesting opportunity to update one's heavy weather sailing technologies and strategies. Unfortunately, neither devotes more than a paragraph or two to the diminutive, fin-keeled, spade-ruddered, 35 ft Hick 35 "Midnight Rambler", which actually won the race on corrected time. Superbly sailed by "old salt" Ed Psaltis, "Midnight Rambler" continued to jug slowly against wind and seas under greatly reduced sail, rather than to employ the more passive defensive tactics which vessels of her size would doubtlessly have employed in the Fastnet race. Of course, having a bit of modern composite in all the right places must have helped too. None of these books, however, will help you prepare for actual offshore sailing quite as well as Jim and Sue Corenman's "Pacific Cup Handbook" (or something close to that). Specifically written for vessels of all the various different hull and rigging designs, weight classes, crew sizes and experience levels, such as participate in that (annual) race, it gives every owner of a vessel ("bluewater", "coastal" or "around the buoy racer") over 30 ft, or so, on this board a chance to seriously start preparing for a longer offshore passage. Then just add either Victor Shane's "Drag Device Data Base", Adlard Cole's "Heavy Weather Sailing" or, less dated, the Pardey's "Storm Tactics Handbook" and Lin Pardey's "The Care and Feeding of the Offshore Crew" plus a few of Nigel Calder's technical maintenance books and you are all set to start making passages 24-36 months from now! Sorry, almost forgot to mention the boat.... Here's my 2 cents worth on that relentlously flogged long-dead horse: Imagine the I-80 with New York at one end and San Francisco at the other. Let one of these cities be the avatar for the boat that ALWAYS takes care of her crew with the other city embodying the crew that always takes takes care of its vessel. Everything in between is then, of necessity, a compromise. Take a long hard look at yourself and your boat and decide whether you are somewhere on that road or still traveking on the I-15 (the best thing to come out of Idaho, as they say here in Utah). If you and your boat are somewhere on the I-80 and you are comfortable with where you are, don't waste any more time; you are good to go! The trick is not to get confused, however, by those diehard I-80 lubbers who have sworn to make it all the way to New York or San Francisco first. They will keep websurfing (but are cordially invited to stop by in Park City, Utah, and ski with Nelleke and me anytime there's snow in them thar hills!) Either way, we'll be looking out for you on the I-80 in Utah or near Captain Cook's reef in Vanuatu! Flying Dutchman
This was one of nature's largesr and most costly "seaworthiness experiments". The conclusions that can be drawn from the great amount of anecdotal data accumulated by John Rousmaniere with a minimum of preconceived notions, remain costly jewels of information for aspiring offsgore sailors, even more than a quarter century after the fact. IMHO, the real "beef" is in only table with numerical data (somewhere at the very end) showing the percantage of vessels sailing into serious harm for each boat length category. The conclusions that I drew from this table are a bit different, however, than what quite a few traditionalist cruisers appear to have concluded. Whereas they see a confirmation of their love affair with relatively heavy, fullkeelded and narrow-beamed "bluewater" vessels, I read only.... Well, why not let you decide that for yourself. John Rousmaniere's books (including the Annapolis Book of Seamanship adopted by ASA for their sailboating certification courses) greatly influenced my own choices and approaches after we bought Rivendel II in 1991 and gradually started preparing her for serious offshore work (initially just to survive overnighting to fabulous San Miguel, or other favorite dive spots, in the California Channel Islands) Rob Mundle's "Fatal Storm" and also Derek Lundy's "Godforsaken Sea"; chronicling the ill-fated 1998 Sydney-Hobart race make for an interesting opportunity to update one's heavy weather sailing technologies and strategies. Unfortunately, neither devotes more than a paragraph or two to the diminutive, fin-keeled, spade-ruddered, 35 ft Hick 35 "Midnight Rambler", which actually won the race on corrected time. Superbly sailed by "old salt" Ed Psaltis, "Midnight Rambler" continued to jug slowly against wind and seas under greatly reduced sail, rather than to employ the more passive defensive tactics which vessels of her size would doubtlessly have employed in the Fastnet race. Of course, having a bit of modern composite in all the right places must have helped too. None of these books, however, will help you prepare for actual offshore sailing quite as well as Jim and Sue Corenman's "Pacific Cup Handbook" (or something close to that). Specifically written for vessels of all the various different hull and rigging designs, weight classes, crew sizes and experience levels, such as participate in that (annual) race, it gives every owner of a vessel ("bluewater", "coastal" or "around the buoy racer") over 30 ft, or so, on this board a chance to seriously start preparing for a longer offshore passage. Then just add either Victor Shane's "Drag Device Data Base", Adlard Cole's "Heavy Weather Sailing" or, less dated, the Pardey's "Storm Tactics Handbook" and Lin Pardey's "The Care and Feeding of the Offshore Crew" plus a few of Nigel Calder's technical maintenance books and you are all set to start making passages 24-36 months from now! Sorry, almost forgot to mention the boat.... Here's my 2 cents worth on that relentlously flogged long-dead horse: Imagine the I-80 with New York at one end and San Francisco at the other. Let one of these cities be the avatar for the boat that ALWAYS takes care of her crew with the other city embodying the crew that always takes takes care of its vessel. Everything in between is then, of necessity, a compromise. Take a long hard look at yourself and your boat and decide whether you are somewhere on that road or still traveking on the I-15 (the best thing to come out of Idaho, as they say here in Utah). If you and your boat are somewhere on the I-80 and you are comfortable with where you are, don't waste any more time; you are good to go! The trick is not to get confused, however, by those diehard I-80 lubbers who have sworn to make it all the way to New York or San Francisco first. They will keep websurfing (but are cordially invited to stop by in Park City, Utah, and ski with Nelleke and me anytime there's snow in them thar hills!) Either way, we'll be looking out for you on the I-80 in Utah or near Captain Cook's reef in Vanuatu! Flying Dutchman
The real Fastnet pearls are on the last pages!
This was one of nature's largesr and most costly "seaworthiness experiments". The conclusions that can be drawn from the great amount of anecdotal data accumulated by John Rousmaniere with a minimum of preconceived notions, remain costly jewels of information for aspiring offsgore sailors, even more than a quarter century after the fact. IMHO, the real "beef" is in only table with numerical data (somewhere at the very end) showing the percantage of vessels sailing into serious harm for each boat length category. The conclusions that I drew from this table are a bit different, however, than what quite a few traditionalist cruisers appear to have concluded. Whereas they see a confirmation of their love affair with relatively heavy, fullkeelded and narrow-beamed "bluewater" vessels, I read only.... Well, why not let you decide that for yourself. John Rousmaniere's books (including the Annapolis Book of Seamanship adopted by ASA for their sailboating certification courses) greatly influenced my own choices and approaches after we bought Rivendel II in 1991 and gradually started preparing her for serious offshore work (initially just to survive overnighting to fabulous San Miguel, or other favorite dive spots, in the California Channel Islands) Rob Mundle's "Fatal Storm" and also Derek Lundy's "Godforsaken Sea"; chronicling the ill-fated 1998 Sydney-Hobart race make for an interesting opportunity to update one's heavy weather sailing technologies and strategies. Unfortunately, neither devotes more than a paragraph or two to the diminutive, fin-keeled, spade-ruddered, 35 ft Hick 35 "Midnight Rambler", which actually won the race on corrected time. Superbly sailed by "old salt" Ed Psaltis, "Midnight Rambler" continued to jug slowly against wind and seas under greatly reduced sail, rather than to employ the more passive defensive tactics which vessels of her size would doubtlessly have employed in the Fastnet race. Of course, having a bit of modern composite in all the right places must have helped too. None of these books, however, will help you prepare for actual offshore sailing quite as well as Jim and Sue Corenman's "Pacific Cup Handbook" (or something close to that). Specifically written for vessels of all the various different hull and rigging designs, weight classes, crew sizes and experience levels, such as participate in that (annual) race, it gives every owner of a vessel ("bluewater", "coastal" or "around the buoy racer") over 30 ft, or so, on this board a chance to seriously start preparing for a longer offshore passage. Then just add either Victor Shane's "Drag Device Data Base", Adlard Cole's "Heavy Weather Sailing" or, less dated, the Pardey's "Storm Tactics Handbook" and Lin Pardey's "The Care and Feeding of the Offshore Crew" plus a few of Nigel Calder's technical maintenance books and you are all set to start making passages 24-36 months from now! Sorry, almost forgot to mention the boat.... Here's my 2 cents worth on that relentlously flogged long-dead horse: Imagine the I-80 with New York at one end and San Francisco at the other. Let one of these cities be the avatar for the boat that ALWAYS takes care of her crew with the other city embodying the crew that always takes takes care of its vessel. Everything in between is then, of necessity, a compromise. Take a long hard look at yourself and your boat and decide whether you are somewhere on that road or still traveking on the I-15 (the best thing to come out of Idaho, as they say here in Utah). If you and your boat are somewhere on the I-80 and you are comfortable with where you are, don't waste any more time; you are good to go! The trick is not to get confused, however, by those diehard I-80 lubbers who have sworn to make it all the way to New York or San Francisco first. They will keep websurfing (but are cordially invited to stop by in Park City, Utah, and ski with Nelleke and me anytime there's snow in them thar hills!) Either way, we'll be looking out for you on the I-80 in Utah or near Captain Cook's reef in Vanuatu! Flying Dutchman
This was one of nature's largesr and most costly "seaworthiness experiments". The conclusions that can be drawn from the great amount of anecdotal data accumulated by John Rousmaniere with a minimum of preconceived notions, remain costly jewels of information for aspiring offsgore sailors, even more than a quarter century after the fact. IMHO, the real "beef" is in only table with numerical data (somewhere at the very end) showing the percantage of vessels sailing into serious harm for each boat length category. The conclusions that I drew from this table are a bit different, however, than what quite a few traditionalist cruisers appear to have concluded. Whereas they see a confirmation of their love affair with relatively heavy, fullkeelded and narrow-beamed "bluewater" vessels, I read only.... Well, why not let you decide that for yourself. John Rousmaniere's books (including the Annapolis Book of Seamanship adopted by ASA for their sailboating certification courses) greatly influenced my own choices and approaches after we bought Rivendel II in 1991 and gradually started preparing her for serious offshore work (initially just to survive overnighting to fabulous San Miguel, or other favorite dive spots, in the California Channel Islands) Rob Mundle's "Fatal Storm" and also Derek Lundy's "Godforsaken Sea"; chronicling the ill-fated 1998 Sydney-Hobart race make for an interesting opportunity to update one's heavy weather sailing technologies and strategies. Unfortunately, neither devotes more than a paragraph or two to the diminutive, fin-keeled, spade-ruddered, 35 ft Hick 35 "Midnight Rambler", which actually won the race on corrected time. Superbly sailed by "old salt" Ed Psaltis, "Midnight Rambler" continued to jug slowly against wind and seas under greatly reduced sail, rather than to employ the more passive defensive tactics which vessels of her size would doubtlessly have employed in the Fastnet race. Of course, having a bit of modern composite in all the right places must have helped too. None of these books, however, will help you prepare for actual offshore sailing quite as well as Jim and Sue Corenman's "Pacific Cup Handbook" (or something close to that). Specifically written for vessels of all the various different hull and rigging designs, weight classes, crew sizes and experience levels, such as participate in that (annual) race, it gives every owner of a vessel ("bluewater", "coastal" or "around the buoy racer") over 30 ft, or so, on this board a chance to seriously start preparing for a longer offshore passage. Then just add either Victor Shane's "Drag Device Data Base", Adlard Cole's "Heavy Weather Sailing" or, less dated, the Pardey's "Storm Tactics Handbook" and Lin Pardey's "The Care and Feeding of the Offshore Crew" plus a few of Nigel Calder's technical maintenance books and you are all set to start making passages 24-36 months from now! Sorry, almost forgot to mention the boat.... Here's my 2 cents worth on that relentlously flogged long-dead horse: Imagine the I-80 with New York at one end and San Francisco at the other. Let one of these cities be the avatar for the boat that ALWAYS takes care of her crew with the other city embodying the crew that always takes takes care of its vessel. Everything in between is then, of necessity, a compromise. Take a long hard look at yourself and your boat and decide whether you are somewhere on that road or still traveking on the I-15 (the best thing to come out of Idaho, as they say here in Utah). If you and your boat are somewhere on the I-80 and you are comfortable with where you are, don't waste any more time; you are good to go! The trick is not to get confused, however, by those diehard I-80 lubbers who have sworn to make it all the way to New York or San Francisco first. They will keep websurfing (but are cordially invited to stop by in Park City, Utah, and ski with Nelleke and me anytime there's snow in them thar hills!) Either way, we'll be looking out for you on the I-80 in Utah or near Captain Cook's reef in Vanuatu! Flying Dutchman
Coroner's Report!!
Hugh, I too have copies of both books though I would not describe them as bedtime reading - unless you are nightmare proof! If you can get a copy of the Coroner's Report for the Sydney Hobart that makes really interesting reading. My copy is not possible to send over the net so I cannot help here but what the guys say about life jackets and liferafts is something else. Also it becomes clear that much still remained to be learned from the Fastnet '79 but which was not learned by the '98 SH race. My maudlin interest in such matters arises from loosing chums in both races and from owning, at the time, a sister ship to Grimalkin.
Hugh, I too have copies of both books though I would not describe them as bedtime reading - unless you are nightmare proof! If you can get a copy of the Coroner's Report for the Sydney Hobart that makes really interesting reading. My copy is not possible to send over the net so I cannot help here but what the guys say about life jackets and liferafts is something else. Also it becomes clear that much still remained to be learned from the Fastnet '79 but which was not learned by the '98 SH race. My maudlin interest in such matters arises from loosing chums in both races and from owning, at the time, a sister ship to Grimalkin.
The real Fastnet pearls are on the last pages!
That Fastnet race was one of nature's largest and most costly "seaworthiness experiments". The conclusions that can be drawn from the great amount of anecdotal data accumulated by John Rousmaniere with a minimum of preconceived notions, remain costly jewels of information for aspiring offshore sailors, even more than a quarter century after the fact. IMHO, the real "beef" is in the only table with numerical data (somewhere at the very end) showing the percentage of vessels sailing into serious harm for each boat length category. The conclusions that I drew from this table are a bit different, however, than what quite a few traditionalist cruisers appear to have found. Whereas they see a confirmation of their ancient, almost respectable, love affair with heavy, fullkeeled, narrow-beamed "bluewater" vessels, I only see a significant positive effect of waterline length..... John Rousmaniere's books (including the Annapolis Book of Seamanship adopted by ASA for their sailboating certification courses) greatly influenced my own choices and approaches after we bought Rivendel II in 1991 and gradually started preparing her for serious offshore work (initially just to survive overnighting to fabulous San Miguel, or other favorite dive spots, in the California Channel Islands) Rob Mundle's "Fatal Storm" and also Derek Lundy's "Godforsaken Sea"; chronicling the ill-fated 1998 Sydney-Hobart race make for an interesting opportunity to update one's heavy weather sailing technologies and strategies. Unfortunately, neither devotes more than a paragraph or two to the diminutive, fin-keeled, spade-ruddered, 35 ft Hick 35 "Midnight Rambler", which actually won the race on corrected time. Superbly sailed by "old salt" Ed Psaltis, "Midnight Rambler" continued to jug slowly against wind and seas under greatly reduced sail, rather than to employ the more passive defensive tactics which vessels of her size would doubtlessly have employed in the Fastnet race. Of course, having a bit of modern composite in all the right places must have helped too. None of these books, however, will help you prepare for actual offshore sailing quite as well as Jim and Sue Corenman's "Pacific Cup Handbook". Specifically written for vessels of all the various different hull and rigging designs, weight classes, crew sizes and experience levels, such as participate in that (annual) race, it gives every owner of a vessel ("bluewater", "coastal" or "around the buoy racer") over 30 ft, or so, on this board a chance to seriously start preparing for a longer offshore passage. Then just add either Victor Shane's "Drag Device Data Base", Adlard Cole's "Heavy Weather Sailing" or, less dated, the Pardey's "Storm Tactics Handbook" and Lin Pardey's "The Care and Feeding of the Offshore Crew" plus a few of Nigel Calder's technical maintenance books and you are all set to start making passages 24-36 months from now! Sorry, almost forgot to mention the boat.... Here's my 2 cents worth on that relentlously flogged long-dead horse: Imagine the I-80 with New York at one end and San Francisco at the other. Let one of these cities be the avatar for the perfect boat that ALWAYS takes care of her crew with the other city embodying the perfect crew that ALWAYS takes takes care of its vessel. Everything in between is then, of necessity, a compromise. Take a long hard look at yourself and your boat and decide whether you are already somewhere on that road, rather than still traveling on the I-15 (the best thing to come out of Idaho, as they say here in Utah). If you and your boat are somewhere on the I-80 and you are comfortable with where you are, don't waste any more time; you are good to go! The trick is not to get confused, however, by those diehard I-80 lubbers who have sworn to make it all the way to New York or San Francisco first. They are doomed to keep websurfing the I-80 (and thus eventually pass by Park City, Utah where they are warmly invited to stop and ski with Nelleke and me as long as there's "nuff snoi in them thar hills"!) Either way, we'll be looking out for you, if not on the I-80 in Utah then perhaps near Captain Cook's reef in Vanuatu! Flying Dutchman
That Fastnet race was one of nature's largest and most costly "seaworthiness experiments". The conclusions that can be drawn from the great amount of anecdotal data accumulated by John Rousmaniere with a minimum of preconceived notions, remain costly jewels of information for aspiring offshore sailors, even more than a quarter century after the fact. IMHO, the real "beef" is in the only table with numerical data (somewhere at the very end) showing the percentage of vessels sailing into serious harm for each boat length category. The conclusions that I drew from this table are a bit different, however, than what quite a few traditionalist cruisers appear to have found. Whereas they see a confirmation of their ancient, almost respectable, love affair with heavy, fullkeeled, narrow-beamed "bluewater" vessels, I only see a significant positive effect of waterline length..... John Rousmaniere's books (including the Annapolis Book of Seamanship adopted by ASA for their sailboating certification courses) greatly influenced my own choices and approaches after we bought Rivendel II in 1991 and gradually started preparing her for serious offshore work (initially just to survive overnighting to fabulous San Miguel, or other favorite dive spots, in the California Channel Islands) Rob Mundle's "Fatal Storm" and also Derek Lundy's "Godforsaken Sea"; chronicling the ill-fated 1998 Sydney-Hobart race make for an interesting opportunity to update one's heavy weather sailing technologies and strategies. Unfortunately, neither devotes more than a paragraph or two to the diminutive, fin-keeled, spade-ruddered, 35 ft Hick 35 "Midnight Rambler", which actually won the race on corrected time. Superbly sailed by "old salt" Ed Psaltis, "Midnight Rambler" continued to jug slowly against wind and seas under greatly reduced sail, rather than to employ the more passive defensive tactics which vessels of her size would doubtlessly have employed in the Fastnet race. Of course, having a bit of modern composite in all the right places must have helped too. None of these books, however, will help you prepare for actual offshore sailing quite as well as Jim and Sue Corenman's "Pacific Cup Handbook". Specifically written for vessels of all the various different hull and rigging designs, weight classes, crew sizes and experience levels, such as participate in that (annual) race, it gives every owner of a vessel ("bluewater", "coastal" or "around the buoy racer") over 30 ft, or so, on this board a chance to seriously start preparing for a longer offshore passage. Then just add either Victor Shane's "Drag Device Data Base", Adlard Cole's "Heavy Weather Sailing" or, less dated, the Pardey's "Storm Tactics Handbook" and Lin Pardey's "The Care and Feeding of the Offshore Crew" plus a few of Nigel Calder's technical maintenance books and you are all set to start making passages 24-36 months from now! Sorry, almost forgot to mention the boat.... Here's my 2 cents worth on that relentlously flogged long-dead horse: Imagine the I-80 with New York at one end and San Francisco at the other. Let one of these cities be the avatar for the perfect boat that ALWAYS takes care of her crew with the other city embodying the perfect crew that ALWAYS takes takes care of its vessel. Everything in between is then, of necessity, a compromise. Take a long hard look at yourself and your boat and decide whether you are already somewhere on that road, rather than still traveling on the I-15 (the best thing to come out of Idaho, as they say here in Utah). If you and your boat are somewhere on the I-80 and you are comfortable with where you are, don't waste any more time; you are good to go! The trick is not to get confused, however, by those diehard I-80 lubbers who have sworn to make it all the way to New York or San Francisco first. They are doomed to keep websurfing the I-80 (and thus eventually pass by Park City, Utah where they are warmly invited to stop and ski with Nelleke and me as long as there's "nuff snoi in them thar hills"!) Either way, we'll be looking out for you, if not on the I-80 in Utah then perhaps near Captain Cook's reef in Vanuatu! Flying Dutchman
- Status