I hear all kind of rumors and quotes about what is legal and what is illegal when it comes to Y values and holding tank manual pump outs. Some say they are OK if locked ( can't define what locked means IE do both the Y value and pump need to be locked or just one and if so which one the story varies) others they must be removed. I've been told US Coast Guard fine stories and Stories where Canada has siezed and impounded boats until the through hulls are glassed over. Does any one know the true facts and can you point me to a written policy/law issued by the government or the Coast Gaurd.
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
The Great Lakes are "no discharge"
That's true in both US and Canadian waters. If you're a transient boat visiting, all that's necessary is a "secured" system--i.e. thru-hull closed and the seacock handle either wired or removed..same for any y-valves. Or, if you have two heads and only one tank, lock the door to the head without a tank. The stories about requiring thru-hulls to be removed and glassed over are "urban legend"...so are the stories about boats being seized. It's never happened to ANYone--not even to US registered boats with removeable portapotties, which are illegal in Canada, but not in the US. In fact, no US boat equipped with one has ever even been turned back at a border crossing or by Canadian customs, much less seized. Worst case, if someone were actually caught in the act of dumping a tank or discharging directly overboard, the authorites MIGHT "hold the boat for ransom" till a whopping fine is paid. But they do not inspect and seize a boat because it isn't equipped to their liking. If you keep your boat on any of the Great Lakes, it doesn't matter whether you're in US or Canadian waters, y-valves and overboard discharge macerater pumps are illegal. So it would be a VERY good idea to remove all plumbing etc that could easily be connected to a thru-hull. The only setup that's legal is a head plumbed directly to a holding tank...tank plumbed only to pumpout deck fitting. But don't worry about going into Canadian waters...the Canadians are very hospitable folks who ask only that you don't pollute their waters. They do tend to get a little testy about that. And you can take all this to the bank, btw.
That's true in both US and Canadian waters. If you're a transient boat visiting, all that's necessary is a "secured" system--i.e. thru-hull closed and the seacock handle either wired or removed..same for any y-valves. Or, if you have two heads and only one tank, lock the door to the head without a tank. The stories about requiring thru-hulls to be removed and glassed over are "urban legend"...so are the stories about boats being seized. It's never happened to ANYone--not even to US registered boats with removeable portapotties, which are illegal in Canada, but not in the US. In fact, no US boat equipped with one has ever even been turned back at a border crossing or by Canadian customs, much less seized. Worst case, if someone were actually caught in the act of dumping a tank or discharging directly overboard, the authorites MIGHT "hold the boat for ransom" till a whopping fine is paid. But they do not inspect and seize a boat because it isn't equipped to their liking. If you keep your boat on any of the Great Lakes, it doesn't matter whether you're in US or Canadian waters, y-valves and overboard discharge macerater pumps are illegal. So it would be a VERY good idea to remove all plumbing etc that could easily be connected to a thru-hull. The only setup that's legal is a head plumbed directly to a holding tank...tank plumbed only to pumpout deck fitting. But don't worry about going into Canadian waters...the Canadians are very hospitable folks who ask only that you don't pollute their waters. They do tend to get a little testy about that. And you can take all this to the bank, btw.
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Rick Webb
Ask your Local CG Auxillary
When we do the courtesy checks down here and we just look to see that the valve is secured meaning that it cannot be accidentally turned. A plastic zip tie or wire suffices for that. Check with them up there and get your boat inspected while you are at it.
When we do the courtesy checks down here and we just look to see that the valve is secured meaning that it cannot be accidentally turned. A plastic zip tie or wire suffices for that. Check with them up there and get your boat inspected while you are at it.
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Jean Hrab
Canadian rule
I just went through these discussions, I bought a boat on the Atlantic side and it was equipped with a y valve. I brought it to Lake Champlain and had to remove and stow away from the boat the part of the system that would evacuate directly in the water. It was clear as I sail this area all year. (when not frozen) The law states you must not have direct access. They are really severe in this respect. They do not seize the boat but there is a fine that is roughly US$1,000.00 Asked about people that sail through on their way out of the system, I was told that it also applies unless the captain shows means of restraining direct access (Peggy is right) and shows that he is really on the way out. This is a grey area that is difficult for people looking for black and white ruling: there are no exception. The marine police also stated that they were understood what a traveller was and it is not what holds the main sail. Sincerely, Jean Hrab
I just went through these discussions, I bought a boat on the Atlantic side and it was equipped with a y valve. I brought it to Lake Champlain and had to remove and stow away from the boat the part of the system that would evacuate directly in the water. It was clear as I sail this area all year. (when not frozen) The law states you must not have direct access. They are really severe in this respect. They do not seize the boat but there is a fine that is roughly US$1,000.00 Asked about people that sail through on their way out of the system, I was told that it also applies unless the captain shows means of restraining direct access (Peggy is right) and shows that he is really on the way out. This is a grey area that is difficult for people looking for black and white ruling: there are no exception. The marine police also stated that they were understood what a traveller was and it is not what holds the main sail. Sincerely, Jean Hrab
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Rick Webb
There You Go, Even Better
But do not let that keep you from getting your CME through your friendly Auxiliarist or from the Power Squadron there.
But do not let that keep you from getting your CME through your friendly Auxiliarist or from the Power Squadron there.
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Tommy K
Follow Up
Peggy Thanks for the response. You say that Y valves and through hulls are illegal. All the regs I can find say that the use of them is illegal not having them. In no discharge areas such as the Great Lakes every thing I can find in writing says to lock them not remove them. I like lock much better do to cost. Examples of what I have found in writing are at www.cleanboating.org it says "keep them locked" then later suggests "it may be best to remove" it does not say required. www.uscgboating.org says some acceptable methods of securing are padlocking, closing and removing handle,
Peggy Thanks for the response. You say that Y valves and through hulls are illegal. All the regs I can find say that the use of them is illegal not having them. In no discharge areas such as the Great Lakes every thing I can find in writing says to lock them not remove them. I like lock much better do to cost. Examples of what I have found in writing are at www.cleanboating.org it says "keep them locked" then later suggests "it may be best to remove" it does not say required. www.uscgboating.org says some acceptable methods of securing are padlocking, closing and removing handle,
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
I did NOT say that thru-hulls are illegal
I did say that y-valves can be on boats that are permantly moored on "no discharge" bodies of water. And NASBLA is not an accurate source of information for this issue. For instance, it will tell you that y-valves only needed to be "secured"l in Georgia. That's true--in GA coastal waters and on the navigable rivers. However, y-valves and overboard discharge pumps are most definitely illegal on the non-navigable lakes in GA. Nor is it necessary for transient vessels on the Great Lakes to remove any equipment...it only should be "secured." However, let's look at permanently moored non-trailerable boats from the perspective of any water cop who's likely to have any reason to inspect your boat: the waters are "no discharge"...there is no access (within a two week cruise) to any waters in which it's legal to dump a tank. He sees a y-valve and an overboard discharge macerator pump and a seacock that's secured. If you were that water cop, could you see ANY reason for the y-valve and the pump unless the boat owner planned to use them? No...he prob'ly won't give you a ticket for it. But you'll be watched like a hawk from then on...stopped for any excuse they can think of...because, while they may not ever CATCH you dumping, there's no doubt in their mind you're gonna do it. Why do you want that hassle?? I did not say it's necessary to remove and glass over the thru-hull...I only recommended strongly that you remove all plumbing connected to it and secure the thru-hull...and I cannot see how removing a piece of hose, a y-valve and a macerator pump becomes a cost issue--or even a very big deal...unless you DO plan to use them illegally.
I did say that y-valves can be on boats that are permantly moored on "no discharge" bodies of water. And NASBLA is not an accurate source of information for this issue. For instance, it will tell you that y-valves only needed to be "secured"l in Georgia. That's true--in GA coastal waters and on the navigable rivers. However, y-valves and overboard discharge pumps are most definitely illegal on the non-navigable lakes in GA. Nor is it necessary for transient vessels on the Great Lakes to remove any equipment...it only should be "secured." However, let's look at permanently moored non-trailerable boats from the perspective of any water cop who's likely to have any reason to inspect your boat: the waters are "no discharge"...there is no access (within a two week cruise) to any waters in which it's legal to dump a tank. He sees a y-valve and an overboard discharge macerator pump and a seacock that's secured. If you were that water cop, could you see ANY reason for the y-valve and the pump unless the boat owner planned to use them? No...he prob'ly won't give you a ticket for it. But you'll be watched like a hawk from then on...stopped for any excuse they can think of...because, while they may not ever CATCH you dumping, there's no doubt in their mind you're gonna do it. Why do you want that hassle?? I did not say it's necessary to remove and glass over the thru-hull...I only recommended strongly that you remove all plumbing connected to it and secure the thru-hull...and I cannot see how removing a piece of hose, a y-valve and a macerator pump becomes a cost issue--or even a very big deal...unless you DO plan to use them illegally.
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Sam Kurtz
Good Idea to Check with Authorities
I think I would check with the local authorities. I am sure Peggy knows way more about the systems than do they, however they know what they look for. The Coast Guard Auxiliary is a good place for information and for experience but they do no enforcement of the law. So I think the Coast Guard on both sides of the border and the local boat cops would be the ones to check with. I bet they would even be willing to check the boat out to tell you if you are in compliance if you are unsure. If you are cited it would hold a lot more water with the judge or constable if you are able to explain what was told to you by the enforcement agency than a bunch of faceless people on the Internet.
I think I would check with the local authorities. I am sure Peggy knows way more about the systems than do they, however they know what they look for. The Coast Guard Auxiliary is a good place for information and for experience but they do no enforcement of the law. So I think the Coast Guard on both sides of the border and the local boat cops would be the ones to check with. I bet they would even be willing to check the boat out to tell you if you are in compliance if you are unsure. If you are cited it would hold a lot more water with the judge or constable if you are able to explain what was told to you by the enforcement agency than a bunch of faceless people on the Internet.
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