Great Lakes are a piece of cake
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Last year had a nasty Oct storm also - lots of southern LM boats were wrecked. Chicago marinas caught in on the chin. 
NotCook
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- Dec 29, 2008
- 806
There are 3 consecutive seawalls between Lake Erie and our marina, but we regularly have 2-3' waves inside the marina. We seem to get one of those 12-17' waves forecasts at least once a year, usually about this time, and 6-8 is a fairly common forecast. They are usually westerlies for us, blowing lengthwise up the lake. Sometimes it tries to blow all the water from Toledo up to Buffalo. When it does, like last year, the water level in the shallow Toledo to Port Clinton area dropped 8'. Almost like a tide. I think the prevailing sentiment is that the Great Lakes are a great training ground for being relatively comfortable on the ocean.
there is another book about the 1913 storm entitled White Hurricane. Its a fast read and interesting.
I have photographs hanging on the wall of my summer place showing the waves overtopping the Manistee lighthouse on Lake Michigan. The lake can really get nasty and fast. I've been out on it with NOAA forecasting one to two foot chop only to find 6 to 8 foot chop within an hour or two.
I have photographs hanging on the wall of my summer place showing the waves overtopping the Manistee lighthouse on Lake Michigan. The lake can really get nasty and fast. I've been out on it with NOAA forecasting one to two foot chop only to find 6 to 8 foot chop within an hour or two.
NotCook
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- Dec 29, 2008
- 806
Actually, many have said this. It has been on the Discovery Channel several times as well with sea captains, who have been in storms on the Great Lakes, stating they would never sail here again, given the choice. There is a reason that there are more ship wrecks in the Great Lakes than anywhere else in the world. The topography of the Lakes makes it very treacherous, some deep, some shallow and all vary. Average depth where I am docked is 40 foot. Average depth 40 miles East is 200 foot.. Wave forecasts for Lake Michigan were at 33 foot, with waves in Lake Erie projected to be 26 foot over the past couple days. Those sea captains, who captain 700-800 foot freighters, were quoted as saying if you can sail the Great Lakes, you can sail "ALMOST" anywhere. Our problem here is time between waves. VERY short...which means you can take a horrible beating if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Most everyone on the Great Lakes knows a simple rule...If a storm is coming...be somewhere else. Not all of our storms are bad, but some can be. Also, I am not trying to provide fuel for an argument, only stating facts. Additionally, I am no expert, I have never sailed in conditions this bad, I am only relaying what has been documented.
I read a lot as a kid. Growing up in Duluth and seeing it all the time, and a love of ships from before I can even remember, as long or longer than my love of cars, I was always drawn to that part of the library. And for some macabre reason I cant explain, more often to the tragic and nightmarish tales, the shipwreck section. I am sure that Duluth was not alone among other sea ports in having libraries loaded with shipwreck books, but I sure read a lot of them.
By contrast, Minneapolis libraries only ever had two or three. Here in NW Arkansas they have none.
The Fitz ended most of that reading for me. It was such a horror. Then the song came out, I just no longer wanted to read any of that stuff. Much of it is just creepy. Way too many people with premonitions of coming disasters. Sometimes even animals, like the story of the Captains dog who sailed with him for years on the lakes, and one night before leaving port out east somewhere, the dog refused going aboard, and the ship was lost (how did the dog know?). How does a dog know? Or the Doctors wife and her nightmares she shared in the hotel restaurant that their ship would be destroyed on their trip across Huron, and it actually happened.
Superior is a gorgeous lake from high up on the hill overlooking Duluth, especially inside a warm building behind glass. My brother sailed with the merchant marine one summer around '71 or '72. At first he really liked it, but as the summer wore on he wasnt so crazy about it. His last ship was the Detroit Edison, and he said the worst he ever saw they were in huge waves, he said he was told 50 feet. He said that up in the bow section you could feel the engine thumping. You could feel it speed up as the boat went downhill, then watch the bow plunge deep into the water and watch the huge bow wave break, and feel the engine slow down as it headed uphill again. A few hours of that and he never wanted to go back. He got off the boat when they docked in Toledo and resigned. He said he was never really surprised about the Fitz, he thought everyone out there was pretty nuts.
By contrast, Minneapolis libraries only ever had two or three. Here in NW Arkansas they have none.
The Fitz ended most of that reading for me. It was such a horror. Then the song came out, I just no longer wanted to read any of that stuff. Much of it is just creepy. Way too many people with premonitions of coming disasters. Sometimes even animals, like the story of the Captains dog who sailed with him for years on the lakes, and one night before leaving port out east somewhere, the dog refused going aboard, and the ship was lost (how did the dog know?). How does a dog know? Or the Doctors wife and her nightmares she shared in the hotel restaurant that their ship would be destroyed on their trip across Huron, and it actually happened.
Superior is a gorgeous lake from high up on the hill overlooking Duluth, especially inside a warm building behind glass. My brother sailed with the merchant marine one summer around '71 or '72. At first he really liked it, but as the summer wore on he wasnt so crazy about it. His last ship was the Detroit Edison, and he said the worst he ever saw they were in huge waves, he said he was told 50 feet. He said that up in the bow section you could feel the engine thumping. You could feel it speed up as the boat went downhill, then watch the bow plunge deep into the water and watch the huge bow wave break, and feel the engine slow down as it headed uphill again. A few hours of that and he never wanted to go back. He got off the boat when they docked in Toledo and resigned. He said he was never really surprised about the Fitz, he thought everyone out there was pretty nuts.
I read that one too. What a storm that was! If I remember the region was enjoying some unusually warm and humid fall conditions when a powerful cold front raked the area. Sounds a bit familiar.
Hey thanks for that. Just looked it up on Amazon and will order one. Looks very interesting. We speant many summers in Goderich, Ontario at the Maritime museum which has quite a bit of info on the ships that washed up on this side of Huron.
For me, as a Freshman Captain, on a 34 Ft vessel, I respect where I sail. Many have called the lakes an "Inland Ocean", and I believe it. You don't just look across the lakes, you don't sail out 20 miles and look across the lakes. At times, we get conditions worse than those of the oceans. In a way, I feel fortunate to be honing my sailing skills in Lake Erie. I always try to be mindful of our conditions, and we haven't been out in bad weather. I know, some will call me wimpy or something, but I feel good about being cautious on Lake Erie.
One mystery of the 1913 storm-
The Great Storm of 1913 struck on November 9th. Storms had been raging for days preceding November 9th and a lull that day tricked ships into coming out of port only to be hit with sudden hurricane force winds and waves of over 30 feet. Ten ships went down that day with 248 lives lost on Huron, Georgian Bay & Superior. One of the bodies washed ashore was the Chief Engineer of the Charles S. Price wearing a lifejacket from the ship Regina. The supposedly unsinkable newly built steel ship Charles S Price (28 victims) was found upside down in different part of Lake Huron than the Regina (20 victims). How the lifejacket ended up on the Chief Engineer so far away from it’s ship no one knows for sure. Perhaps he picked it out of the water before his boat capsized or perhaps the boats went down close together and the Charles S Price was pushed some distance before it dragged bottom upside down when it was turtled by waves and wind.
http://www.boatinggeorgianbay.com/blog/archives/11-01-2011_11-30-2011.html
The Great Storm of 1913 struck on November 9th. Storms had been raging for days preceding November 9th and a lull that day tricked ships into coming out of port only to be hit with sudden hurricane force winds and waves of over 30 feet. Ten ships went down that day with 248 lives lost on Huron, Georgian Bay & Superior. One of the bodies washed ashore was the Chief Engineer of the Charles S. Price wearing a lifejacket from the ship Regina. The supposedly unsinkable newly built steel ship Charles S Price (28 victims) was found upside down in different part of Lake Huron than the Regina (20 victims). How the lifejacket ended up on the Chief Engineer so far away from it’s ship no one knows for sure. Perhaps he picked it out of the water before his boat capsized or perhaps the boats went down close together and the Charles S Price was pushed some distance before it dragged bottom upside down when it was turtled by waves and wind.
http://www.boatinggeorgianbay.com/blog/archives/11-01-2011_11-30-2011.html
NotCook
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- Dec 29, 2008
- 806
Whiskey Island Marina in Cleveland
A friend moved his boat from Lorain, OH to Cleveland this season, and had not yet hauled out for the winter. He sent me the attached photo of Wiskey Island Marina, which is at the inside the west end of the Cleveland harbor breakwall. This photo was taken by a friend and sent to him. His boat is not in the photo. He just arrived at the marina, and his text to me when he arrived to check on his boat was, "It is bad".
He had gone to the boat yesterday afternoon to secure the boat. We don't get hurricanes in Cleveland, but we do get wind and waves. All day today, Cleveland has been pummled by 20 foot waves, closing I-90 along the Shoreway.
A friend moved his boat from Lorain, OH to Cleveland this season, and had not yet hauled out for the winter. He sent me the attached photo of Wiskey Island Marina, which is at the inside the west end of the Cleveland harbor breakwall. This photo was taken by a friend and sent to him. His boat is not in the photo. He just arrived at the marina, and his text to me when he arrived to check on his boat was, "It is bad".
He had gone to the boat yesterday afternoon to secure the boat. We don't get hurricanes in Cleveland, but we do get wind and waves. All day today, Cleveland has been pummled by 20 foot waves, closing I-90 along the Shoreway.
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NotCook
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- Dec 29, 2008
- 806
Lake Erie Storm update
Update: At least 36 boats sunk in the Cleveland area. Several marinas completely wiped out. Reported 66-68 knot winds, and 22' waves on the south coast of Lake Erie.
Update: At least 36 boats sunk in the Cleveland area. Several marinas completely wiped out. Reported 66-68 knot winds, and 22' waves on the south coast of Lake Erie.
Here's what it looked like on Southern lake michigan about 2 hours ago. Wind was probably 35 to 40 kts while I was taking these. Judging the waves were probably 10 to 12 ft. At the shore. Much higher further out.
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Judging from the photos there are some heartbroken people out there. I know if YOT had been damaged during this fiasco I'd have been puking blood. One major problem we face on the lakes is the North South direction of our harbors. This is especially true of Ontario and Erie. There isn't much protection when the winds are from the North or for Canadians from the South. The worst of it is with the prevailing west wind all our approaches to our harbors put us with the waves dead abeam which we are set up for a broach and knockdown. Every body of water has it's own unique challenges. Up here, well, call us nuts. If we waited for good weather we would never go. Good luck everybody.
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