I am looking to add a GPS/Plotter with radar to a Beneteau 35. What is the smallest screen that is worthwhile? I was thinking of looking at Raymarine, Garmine or Furono. Does 5 inches work or is this too small? I plan to have the screen at the pedistal? it seems that the car gps is not much bigger than this? Thanks Dave in Newport
GPS/Radar screen size
- Thread starter DClark
- Start date
- Status
They look smaller in the store
I almost bought a Garmin 3210 for my Ericson 35 but I saw one on a friends boat and it was huge. The 3206 which is the exact same unit but smaller works nicely. I had a 182c on my previous boat that worked great as a chartplotter but would be a little small with the radar.
I almost bought a Garmin 3210 for my Ericson 35 but I saw one on a friends boat and it was huge. The 3206 which is the exact same unit but smaller works nicely. I had a 182c on my previous boat that worked great as a chartplotter but would be a little small with the radar.
Screen resolution matters too
It depends on how good your eyesight is. When I was younger I would get down really close to the paper charts to see exactly where the asterisks that marked the individual rocks were, and now I'm lucky if I can see the asterisk on the paper.
But with an electronic chart, you can zoom in. I use a 10" screen and 600x800 resolution. 480 x 640 seems pretty common, and if you get that resolution in a 7" screen you basically have 70% of what I have, so you can see everything smaller, or zoom in and see less of it the same size. Another factor is split screen - if you plan on a chart half the display and sonar or radar the other half, the windows may start to get really small on a 5" display. I have a 5" on my whaler, which is good enough for a whaler, although its hard to read at speed when I'm bumping around. Generally the smaller screens feel tighter, harder to use. Its harder to look at the screen and then look up and refocus on the rock in the distance quickly, its hard to put extra overlay data (depth, time, eta, speed etc) on without blocking larger parts of the chart. I'd say 6-7" minimum. I also have mine on a ram mount on the pedestal which has worked very well. Also - have a look at Lowrance. I think they give more bang for the buck.
It depends on how good your eyesight is. When I was younger I would get down really close to the paper charts to see exactly where the asterisks that marked the individual rocks were, and now I'm lucky if I can see the asterisk on the paper.
But with an electronic chart, you can zoom in. I use a 10" screen and 600x800 resolution. 480 x 640 seems pretty common, and if you get that resolution in a 7" screen you basically have 70% of what I have, so you can see everything smaller, or zoom in and see less of it the same size. Another factor is split screen - if you plan on a chart half the display and sonar or radar the other half, the windows may start to get really small on a 5" display. I have a 5" on my whaler, which is good enough for a whaler, although its hard to read at speed when I'm bumping around. Generally the smaller screens feel tighter, harder to use. Its harder to look at the screen and then look up and refocus on the rock in the distance quickly, its hard to put extra overlay data (depth, time, eta, speed etc) on without blocking larger parts of the chart. I'd say 6-7" minimum. I also have mine on a ram mount on the pedestal which has worked very well. Also - have a look at Lowrance. I think they give more bang for the buck.
I just bought..
I just today bought a 3205C Garmin and plan on adding the Garmin GMR 18HD dome. I've played with both the 3206 & 3205 and for me, and my space constraints, the smaller screen made sense. Having owned a number of radar overlay units in the past you can run both with the full screen and not have to do a split screen. I love the radar overlay feature. For me a smaller screen like the C-70 or Garmin 3205 is enough but it is a personal preference.. My 3205 will be actually appear bigger for me because it will now be at the helm 16" away instead of at the nav station, 7' away, which is a royal PITA where I sail.. I've owned Northstar, Furuno, Raymarine and Garmin stuff and the Furuno and Garmin has always had the best reliability for me...
I just today bought a 3205C Garmin and plan on adding the Garmin GMR 18HD dome. I've played with both the 3206 & 3205 and for me, and my space constraints, the smaller screen made sense. Having owned a number of radar overlay units in the past you can run both with the full screen and not have to do a split screen. I love the radar overlay feature. For me a smaller screen like the C-70 or Garmin 3205 is enough but it is a personal preference.. My 3205 will be actually appear bigger for me because it will now be at the helm 16" away instead of at the nav station, 7' away, which is a royal PITA where I sail.. I've owned Northstar, Furuno, Raymarine and Garmin stuff and the Furuno and Garmin has always had the best reliability for me...
Why Chartplotter?
A quarter of the money for Raymarine buys a 15" laptop plus the best charts and nav program available. No need to mess with those tiny 12" Raymarine screens (C120 etc). Time was when we judged a yacht on how big a chart one could spread on the nav table. The same goes for electronic charts because when zoomed up one cannot see one's destination and when zoomed out one cannot see the detail. Big screens are by far the best. No problems with obsolescence either as laptops are very easily upgraded and program updates come free on the net. Laptops are also incredibly robust - if you don't believe just see how they are used on trains and busses. They also do a myriad of other jobs on board whilst not actually navigating. Only problem is one needs to have them on the nav table below. However, as this is where you will do all your route planning, tidal work, ETA predictions etc, mainly the night before (or at home) you would not want to do all this at the helm position anyway. Computer based navigation offers so much more than chartplotters can yet offer and so I do not see the sense in buying a chartplotter. In 1984 I asked an IBM engineer which chartplotter to buy and he said the market will move away from them towards PC based systems. About that time I bought my first laptop and nav prog and never looked back. May I respectfully suggest you consider the computer way forward. PS:- Run from the yacht's 12V supply the current draw is about 2 amps unless you are charging the battery at the same time. This is not much more than the plotter and is mainly because of the backlight on the large screen.
A quarter of the money for Raymarine buys a 15" laptop plus the best charts and nav program available. No need to mess with those tiny 12" Raymarine screens (C120 etc). Time was when we judged a yacht on how big a chart one could spread on the nav table. The same goes for electronic charts because when zoomed up one cannot see one's destination and when zoomed out one cannot see the detail. Big screens are by far the best. No problems with obsolescence either as laptops are very easily upgraded and program updates come free on the net. Laptops are also incredibly robust - if you don't believe just see how they are used on trains and busses. They also do a myriad of other jobs on board whilst not actually navigating. Only problem is one needs to have them on the nav table below. However, as this is where you will do all your route planning, tidal work, ETA predictions etc, mainly the night before (or at home) you would not want to do all this at the helm position anyway. Computer based navigation offers so much more than chartplotters can yet offer and so I do not see the sense in buying a chartplotter. In 1984 I asked an IBM engineer which chartplotter to buy and he said the market will move away from them towards PC based systems. About that time I bought my first laptop and nav prog and never looked back. May I respectfully suggest you consider the computer way forward. PS:- Run from the yacht's 12V supply the current draw is about 2 amps unless you are charging the battery at the same time. This is not much more than the plotter and is mainly because of the backlight on the large screen.
ok but
What about the ability to overlay radar? What about radar at the helm? Are there any PC based systems that support radar, sonar and can control your AH? The Garmin charplotters use a PC based networking system that allows all these components.
What about the ability to overlay radar? What about radar at the helm? Are there any PC based systems that support radar, sonar and can control your AH? The Garmin charplotters use a PC based networking system that allows all these components.
Agree With Donalex
... that I would spend nominal dollars... as little as possible... for the cockpit and have my primary with my laptop programs below. I agree with Main Sail that the radar display is better in the cockpit in poor visibility conditions, having had them in both locations. Still, seeing his CRT display makes me long for the ones I had. Better than the LCD displays, and I can't even tell you why. Maybe it's just that sharp warm green image compared to the pixels on the LCD's. AS far as the charting programs, I tend to use them much more in the nav station than the helm, altho there are places the opposite would favor. Believe me, I'm way done with proprietary chartplotting systems unless they are REAL cheap. RD PS: you may want to add AIS some time. I use it a lot. Most of the laptop software and freeware has it built in. That would be a big deal for me.
... that I would spend nominal dollars... as little as possible... for the cockpit and have my primary with my laptop programs below. I agree with Main Sail that the radar display is better in the cockpit in poor visibility conditions, having had them in both locations. Still, seeing his CRT display makes me long for the ones I had. Better than the LCD displays, and I can't even tell you why. Maybe it's just that sharp warm green image compared to the pixels on the LCD's. AS far as the charting programs, I tend to use them much more in the nav station than the helm, altho there are places the opposite would favor. Believe me, I'm way done with proprietary chartplotting systems unless they are REAL cheap. RD PS: you may want to add AIS some time. I use it a lot. Most of the laptop software and freeware has it built in. That would be a big deal for me.
Nav prog for laptops
What nav prog are you using for the lap tops? Cost? Thank you guys. Roberto.
What nav prog are you using for the lap tops? Cost? Thank you guys. Roberto.
Rick...
What GPS receiver do you recommend? I was thinking to buy the microsoft street soft that comes with a GPS for the lap... Thank you! Roberto.
What GPS receiver do you recommend? I was thinking to buy the microsoft street soft that comes with a GPS for the lap... Thank you! Roberto.
Ease of operation
I am somewhat familiar with the Garmin and the Raymarine products. I will not discuss reliability, or quality, as I have not had any reliability problems with either of these. I can tell you that from my experience, the Garmin products are much more user friendly, at least for me. The Garmin is menu driven, and very easy to grasp right off. If your mounting it at the helm, the mid size units are plenty big for easy use, and for split screen applications. The biggest of them are just overkill for helm station use, and if you load up a nav pod with all the accessories, they can actually get in the way.
I am somewhat familiar with the Garmin and the Raymarine products. I will not discuss reliability, or quality, as I have not had any reliability problems with either of these. I can tell you that from my experience, the Garmin products are much more user friendly, at least for me. The Garmin is menu driven, and very easy to grasp right off. If your mounting it at the helm, the mid size units are plenty big for easy use, and for split screen applications. The biggest of them are just overkill for helm station use, and if you load up a nav pod with all the accessories, they can actually get in the way.
Raymarine C70
We have the Raymarine C70, and its 6.5", and its a really nice size. Its very clear and readable.
We have the Raymarine C70, and its 6.5", and its a really nice size. Its very clear and readable.
Navigating in the Fog
I was out with my father and two kids on Sunday, and the fog was dissipating when we left the mooring. However, it rolled back in a half an hour later. There wasn't much more than 50-75 metres of visibility, and we sailed for 2 hours purely by the chart plotter. After a couple of minutes of getting my bearings, and heading for a buoy to check its accuracy, I completely relaxed and enjoyed the sail. We couldn't have done this without our chart plotter, or at least dead reckoning and constantly going down the nav station to check the chart / or nav station installed chartplotter is a lot less relaxing.
I was out with my father and two kids on Sunday, and the fog was dissipating when we left the mooring. However, it rolled back in a half an hour later. There wasn't much more than 50-75 metres of visibility, and we sailed for 2 hours purely by the chart plotter. After a couple of minutes of getting my bearings, and heading for a buoy to check its accuracy, I completely relaxed and enjoyed the sail. We couldn't have done this without our chart plotter, or at least dead reckoning and constantly going down the nav station to check the chart / or nav station installed chartplotter is a lot less relaxing.
But Guys!!!!!
Whose using paper charts!? Kidding. Remember when computers were new aboard and the old salts would pompously tell you to have paper aboard and to use them? I've got three (3) laptops for the boat and my wifes' makes four. Now to network them. Anybody doing that? Wireless of course.
Whose using paper charts!? Kidding. Remember when computers were new aboard and the old salts would pompously tell you to have paper aboard and to use them? I've got three (3) laptops for the boat and my wifes' makes four. Now to network them. Anybody doing that? Wireless of course.
A small inverter should be enough to power
a wireless router. Of course, it'd be very important to make sure that the encryption features are engaged to avoid having other boats get free wifi when on the same tack.
a wireless router. Of course, it'd be very important to make sure that the encryption features are engaged to avoid having other boats get free wifi when on the same tack.
Fred..
Quote Fred: "But Guys!!!!! Whose using paper charts!?" It's funny you mention this now. This past weekend was the first time in my sailing history that I did not pull out the stop watch, paper and all the other BS in the fog. So I'm a little slow on the uptake, and it took me a full TEN years of using plotters, I owned one of the first ones made, to finally realize they are DAMN reliable!!! In ten years I have not so much as even had a hiccup with my GPS's that would have caused me a problem. In ten years I've never once lost a fix! So finally I'm getting a little braver in the fog and with two GPS plotters running at my helm this weekend, a Garmin 176 and a Garmin 182C, I left the paper charts stowed in the nav station in pea soup which is a BIG leap of faith for me.. Ten years and many hundreds, more like thousands of NM's in the fog, and I have had complete and total reliability from my GPS's and I carry three so even if two die I still have a third. I'm slowly, very slowly, due to habit, moving away from pulling out the paper every time the fog rolls in..
Quote Fred: "But Guys!!!!! Whose using paper charts!?" It's funny you mention this now. This past weekend was the first time in my sailing history that I did not pull out the stop watch, paper and all the other BS in the fog. So I'm a little slow on the uptake, and it took me a full TEN years of using plotters, I owned one of the first ones made, to finally realize they are DAMN reliable!!! In ten years I have not so much as even had a hiccup with my GPS's that would have caused me a problem. In ten years I've never once lost a fix! So finally I'm getting a little braver in the fog and with two GPS plotters running at my helm this weekend, a Garmin 176 and a Garmin 182C, I left the paper charts stowed in the nav station in pea soup which is a BIG leap of faith for me.. Ten years and many hundreds, more like thousands of NM's in the fog, and I have had complete and total reliability from my GPS's and I carry three so even if two die I still have a third. I'm slowly, very slowly, due to habit, moving away from pulling out the paper every time the fog rolls in..
Paper charts
I, too, have begun a slooooow switch. But one of the primary factors for keeping the paper charts is the ease of seeing "The Big Picture" that you just can't get on a plotter or GPS map. Of course, a growing familiarity of your own sailing grounds makes a big difference. Fog in a new-to-you place is different than knowing where you are in the fog in a place you've sailed many times before when visibility actually existed. In the latter case, one is confirming a position in relatively known relationships. In th former case, it's much the same but with unknowns factored in.
I, too, have begun a slooooow switch. But one of the primary factors for keeping the paper charts is the ease of seeing "The Big Picture" that you just can't get on a plotter or GPS map. Of course, a growing familiarity of your own sailing grounds makes a big difference. Fog in a new-to-you place is different than knowing where you are in the fog in a place you've sailed many times before when visibility actually existed. In the latter case, one is confirming a position in relatively known relationships. In th former case, it's much the same but with unknowns factored in.
Paper Charts
Paper Charts are not to be replaced by electronics for me. I have GPS and use it primarily to get the lat/lon numbers instead using celestial nav. This way I can keep a running fix with updated lat/lon numbers every hour. I have a Garmin 76c mounted at the nav station and a new Garmin 72 in a locker. In addition to lat/lon I use the GPS for cross referencing speed and distance with the knotlog to calculate current and drift. I also use the GPS at anchor as an anchor watch. I do not use the chart screen on the GPS. I have paper charts for wherever I go. I also have a sextant (although I have not used it in years).
Paper Charts are not to be replaced by electronics for me. I have GPS and use it primarily to get the lat/lon numbers instead using celestial nav. This way I can keep a running fix with updated lat/lon numbers every hour. I have a Garmin 76c mounted at the nav station and a new Garmin 72 in a locker. In addition to lat/lon I use the GPS for cross referencing speed and distance with the knotlog to calculate current and drift. I also use the GPS at anchor as an anchor watch. I do not use the chart screen on the GPS. I have paper charts for wherever I go. I also have a sextant (although I have not used it in years).
Nav Stations...
I have never found any use for a nav station other than a small storage and Ham radio station area. Maybe my boats were never big enough. I like just about everything with me outside at the helm. I friend of mine had a 45 Columbia which is enormous to me and he kept most everything at his nav station. It was always interesting to me that we had to yell back and forth any radio communications and course, heading and speed. I would find it impossible for me to sail solo and have to run in and out of the cabin to see the radar when its foggy out. Tony B
I have never found any use for a nav station other than a small storage and Ham radio station area. Maybe my boats were never big enough. I like just about everything with me outside at the helm. I friend of mine had a 45 Columbia which is enormous to me and he kept most everything at his nav station. It was always interesting to me that we had to yell back and forth any radio communications and course, heading and speed. I would find it impossible for me to sail solo and have to run in and out of the cabin to see the radar when its foggy out. Tony B
- Status