In this day and age of high tech electronic miniaturization, is there any reason why the makers of hand-held GPS units (i.e, Garmin, Magellan, etc.) can't make your ordinary and inexpensive GPS into an EPIRB, with either manual or automatic activation? Why should it be necessary to connect to a DSC VHF radio at all? If the GPS can read where it is on earth from an overhead satellite, why can't that process be reversed, i.e, that data be automatically transmitted by the satellites to he USCG or other rescue services with a flick of a switch on your unit? If EPIRBs weren't so expensive, more people would use them, IMHO....
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GPSs are receivers not transmitters.
I believe the main problem is that GPS's don't communicate with the satellites. They receive and interpret information from the satellites but don't send anything back. They would require quite a bit more power to be able to send info out, I would think. Probably wouldn't be too tough to send out signals like the old school EPIRBs, though.
I believe the main problem is that GPS's don't communicate with the satellites. They receive and interpret information from the satellites but don't send anything back. They would require quite a bit more power to be able to send info out, I would think. Probably wouldn't be too tough to send out signals like the old school EPIRBs, though.
GPS are receivers like a small FM radio
The GPS functions like a modern Loran or RDF. Nothing more. The GPS can not send any information out, at all, except for some short distance static generated by the electronics. It gets information from a minimum of 3 satellites, and the computer chip calculates the information resulting in a latlon. That is why there are new VHF units with DSC, so it can transmit that latlon. You can also connect the GPS to a SSB, and transmit, or a host of other electronics that can transmit. EPIRB are designed for people who may need it. VHF+DSC are for all the other people who does not need an EPIRB, but need some other locating widget that is a lot cheaper. It would make more sense to ask the VHF makers to include a GPS receiver within the housing, just like the new GPS equipped cell phones.
The GPS functions like a modern Loran or RDF. Nothing more. The GPS can not send any information out, at all, except for some short distance static generated by the electronics. It gets information from a minimum of 3 satellites, and the computer chip calculates the information resulting in a latlon. That is why there are new VHF units with DSC, so it can transmit that latlon. You can also connect the GPS to a SSB, and transmit, or a host of other electronics that can transmit. EPIRB are designed for people who may need it. VHF+DSC are for all the other people who does not need an EPIRB, but need some other locating widget that is a lot cheaper. It would make more sense to ask the VHF makers to include a GPS receiver within the housing, just like the new GPS equipped cell phones.
I second Paul Z and add....
..they should use it responsibly. I would say that they should even pay a yearly fee so that only those who really need them would buy them. If you try to make these things for the masses they will trivialize it just like they do "911" today. "Hello, this is bimbo, my cat is up in the tree.....off course this is an emergency, why else would't I be calling you". Yeap, we need the same thing with the EPIRB. abe
..they should use it responsibly. I would say that they should even pay a yearly fee so that only those who really need them would buy them. If you try to make these things for the masses they will trivialize it just like they do "911" today. "Hello, this is bimbo, my cat is up in the tree.....off course this is an emergency, why else would't I be calling you". Yeap, we need the same thing with the EPIRB. abe
I may not have stated my issue
clearly enough: I realize a GPS is a "receive only" device. What I was wondering about was how "easy" or not it would be given today's tech to also make it a "send" device as well for an emergerncy positioning signal only, not voice or text, etc. This should be neither difficult nor expensive, IMHO. I discount the stated fear here that such a device would be misued any more than say, the use of "Mayday" calls on the VHF is misused. Heavy fines and/or jail penalities would be easy to implement for violators since activating the device immediately says who and where you are... Once the word gets out that you pay for a false rescue attempt, plus a few thousand in fines, or your boat is confiscated, and misuse would drop to zero.
clearly enough: I realize a GPS is a "receive only" device. What I was wondering about was how "easy" or not it would be given today's tech to also make it a "send" device as well for an emergerncy positioning signal only, not voice or text, etc. This should be neither difficult nor expensive, IMHO. I discount the stated fear here that such a device would be misued any more than say, the use of "Mayday" calls on the VHF is misused. Heavy fines and/or jail penalities would be easy to implement for violators since activating the device immediately says who and where you are... Once the word gets out that you pay for a false rescue attempt, plus a few thousand in fines, or your boat is confiscated, and misuse would drop to zero.
Warren, The home detention systems
use GPS to locate and track people that are under house/home detention. They also have systems for child and pet locating. They are monitored by a private contractor and each is identified by a computer.
use GPS to locate and track people that are under house/home detention. They also have systems for child and pet locating. They are monitored by a private contractor and each is identified by a computer.
Check out the WM catalog
I believe I saw just the thing you are looking for in the PFD/harness section. A personal EPIRB that clips on your harness and, among other things, sends your GPS location to one of the IMARSAT's on the emergency freq. BTW it only takes a 1 watt transmitter to get the attention of one of these satellites.
I believe I saw just the thing you are looking for in the PFD/harness section. A personal EPIRB that clips on your harness and, among other things, sends your GPS location to one of the IMARSAT's on the emergency freq. BTW it only takes a 1 watt transmitter to get the attention of one of these satellites.
Good point Warren..
but; the "heavy fines and penalties for misuse" have to be administrated by..who? Our already overburdened Coast Guard? What about other countries? I hear that it is even now hard to get a response to EPIRB in some waters.
but; the "heavy fines and penalties for misuse" have to be administrated by..who? Our already overburdened Coast Guard? What about other countries? I hear that it is even now hard to get a response to EPIRB in some waters.
Good discussion topic Warren...
The difference between GPS downlink and EPIRB uplink is obviously frequency and power. GPS manufactures could easily install a small Ultra High Frequency (UHF) 1-watt transmitter into the package. The L-Band receive frequencies do not need to be changed. This would also work off of two satellite systems; Low Earth Orbit (LEO) for GPS and Geosynchronous (GEO) for the EPIRB uplink. But what will GPS manufacturers gain by doing this? I don't think the units will be any cheaper because of the strict standards imposed on the design of the UHF transmitter. Government standards for transmitting equipment is so tight. It has to be. Look at the requirements for Marine SSB radio when Amateur SSB radio can do the exact same thing for 1/4 the cost. But the Government will not relax the standards. This is an excellent idea but unfortunately, if GPS manufactures embarked on making GPS/EPIRB units, the cost will still be the same. There might be one saving grace for this. If more manufactures where to make them available the price might come down to reasonable level. But we all know, boating is not a common mans sport and this reflects on the price for simple everyday items. Stick the word "marine" on an item and its price has just increased 1000%.
The difference between GPS downlink and EPIRB uplink is obviously frequency and power. GPS manufactures could easily install a small Ultra High Frequency (UHF) 1-watt transmitter into the package. The L-Band receive frequencies do not need to be changed. This would also work off of two satellite systems; Low Earth Orbit (LEO) for GPS and Geosynchronous (GEO) for the EPIRB uplink. But what will GPS manufacturers gain by doing this? I don't think the units will be any cheaper because of the strict standards imposed on the design of the UHF transmitter. Government standards for transmitting equipment is so tight. It has to be. Look at the requirements for Marine SSB radio when Amateur SSB radio can do the exact same thing for 1/4 the cost. But the Government will not relax the standards. This is an excellent idea but unfortunately, if GPS manufactures embarked on making GPS/EPIRB units, the cost will still be the same. There might be one saving grace for this. If more manufactures where to make them available the price might come down to reasonable level. But we all know, boating is not a common mans sport and this reflects on the price for simple everyday items. Stick the word "marine" on an item and its price has just increased 1000%.
Radio standards
The FCC has to have really tight standards on marine SSB due to the lack of expertize of folks that use them. When you turn to channel 601 you want EVERYBODY to be able to communicate. Units in the tropics run hotter than one up on the arctic circle and that effects the channel freq. So you need some extra circuits to compensate........ There are lots of things that a HAM would just "adjust" his set to get "tuned in" that you just can't expect the rest of us to be able to do consistently. Government standards are not necessarily a bad thing. But they do tend to make things more expensive. My two favorite example are the $700 toilet seat and the $300 ash tray. Both are used at sea. The toilet seat is used on a submarine where a fire would release toxic gases that have no where to go so you need to make the seat out of something comfortable but safe in a fire. The ash tray has to be able to fall off a table and not break into a million pieces of sharp glass. They usually fall off tables when the ship gets hit by a missile or bomb. Probably the last thing you want to worry about in a situation like that.
The FCC has to have really tight standards on marine SSB due to the lack of expertize of folks that use them. When you turn to channel 601 you want EVERYBODY to be able to communicate. Units in the tropics run hotter than one up on the arctic circle and that effects the channel freq. So you need some extra circuits to compensate........ There are lots of things that a HAM would just "adjust" his set to get "tuned in" that you just can't expect the rest of us to be able to do consistently. Government standards are not necessarily a bad thing. But they do tend to make things more expensive. My two favorite example are the $700 toilet seat and the $300 ash tray. Both are used at sea. The toilet seat is used on a submarine where a fire would release toxic gases that have no where to go so you need to make the seat out of something comfortable but safe in a fire. The ash tray has to be able to fall off a table and not break into a million pieces of sharp glass. They usually fall off tables when the ship gets hit by a missile or bomb. Probably the last thing you want to worry about in a situation like that.
It has always been
much more expensive to manufacture transmiters than receivers. Amongst other technical reasons besides just power, precision frequency transmission is expensive to achieve. I dont know what its like where you live, but off the coast of La., EPIRBS going off are not taken serious by the CG., then again, neither are maydays. This is not meant to be a political statement. Just a shortcoming of the La. CG.
much more expensive to manufacture transmiters than receivers. Amongst other technical reasons besides just power, precision frequency transmission is expensive to achieve. I dont know what its like where you live, but off the coast of La., EPIRBS going off are not taken serious by the CG., then again, neither are maydays. This is not meant to be a political statement. Just a shortcoming of the La. CG.
What I was suggesting here
was something like a hybrid product consisting of an inexpensive hand-held GPS combined with the smallest and least expensive version of the Personal Locator Beacon that is now becoming popular.
was something like a hybrid product consisting of an inexpensive hand-held GPS combined with the smallest and least expensive version of the Personal Locator Beacon that is now becoming popular.
Like I said
West Marine has these for $600. See the link. Not really sure why you would need a GPS readout on something like this since it is sending the data. Do you really care where you are if the rescue folks already know???
West Marine has these for $600. See the link. Not really sure why you would need a GPS readout on something like this since it is sending the data. Do you really care where you are if the rescue folks already know???
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