GPS and compass read differently

Feb 17, 2006
5,274
Lancer 27PS MCB Camp Pendleton KF6BL
If you were puttering around and not going in a straight course then the GPS is always playing catchup because of the way it derives COG. Go as fast as you can in a straight line for a few minutes and then see what the difference maybe, have an additional heading source available, (iPhone) but keep it away from your binnacle compass.
I would agree with this IF the vessel was traveling at 200 kts and there is a sudden course change. We see this in our car GPS. When we pass a bridge, the GPS tells us we are not there yet. However, since the boat is moving 5 kts, there really should be no discernible lag. Once the vessel starts moving the GPS will detect variations of the signals from the satellites and tell you which way you are going. If the GPS tells you the opposite of what your compass says, then there is a parameter that is incorrect.
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
Bet there was a current. If your boat speed is 2 knots north and the current is 3 knots south your compass will read due north (bearing) while your GPS will read speed over ground as 1 knot and direction over ground as south.
it happens A LOT in sailboats in strongish currents. The direction you are piointing can not be determined with a GPS. If you back up the same thing happens BTW
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
I recall a long-ago post which may not have been about GPS, but the problem was the same- 180 off. The person reversed the leads and it came proper. Otherwise, my memory is limited.
 
Oct 2, 2008
3,811
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
My boat has a similar issue now that its back in the water. Autopilot reads 180, chart plotter reads 190, and the GPS reads 200 all set to magnetic. Now they're all talking to each other, but not agreeing. The binnacle matches the chart plotter pretty close. The PO had installed two control heads for the autopilot, one at the helm and one at the nav. station. They don't match either. There may be an answer, but artificial intelligence it aint.

All U Get
 
Jul 5, 2004
14
Catalina 27 Yorktown
re: Compass/GPS 180 out?

Since the GPS is new, is it possible you are looking at the "return to last position/waypoint" rather than the current heading? Although compasses need calibraton it is more normal for them to be <10 deg out -

Just a thought -
LarryT


Good morning. I went sailing yesterday and one of the things I wanted to do is check out my new depth gauge/GPS. On the recommendations of others on the forum I bought the Garmin 44dv. It seems to be really nice and the shallow alarm is very handy. I was just putzing around in the James river so I didn't really need navigation but I turned the GPS screen on just to take a look. My compass is mounted above the GPS and I notice they do not read the same. I'm not talking about a little difference, It's like 180 degrees. I have never had a GPS on my boat so I'm not sure what's going on. I will admit I did not spend a lot of time even thinking about it since I had other things to do but I'm curious. The navigational chart put me right where I knew I was and the little boat symbol had me going in the right direction. It's just that the heading was wonky. Any ideas? Thanks.
 
Dec 21, 2009
21
Cheoy Lee Trawler 37 New Rochelle, NY
Good morning. I went sailing yesterday and one of the things I wanted to do is check out my new depth gauge/GPS. On the recommendations of others on the forum I bought the Garmin 44dv. It seems to be really nice and the shallow alarm is very handy. I was just putzing around in the James river so I didn't really need navigation but I turned the GPS screen on just to take a look. My compass is mounted above the GPS and I notice they do not read the same. I'm not talking about a little difference, It's like 180 degrees. I have never had a GPS on my boat so I'm not sure what's going on. I will admit I did not spend a lot of time even thinking about it since I had other things to do but I'm curious. The navigational chart put me right where I knew I was and the little boat symbol had me going in the right direction. It's just that the heading was wonky. Any ideas? Thanks.
You have installed it backwards
 
Oct 21, 2014
190
Oday 22 Richmond
Very interesting Phil. I never thought of that. Actually when I looked at my GPS it is very possible I was going backwards as there was very little wind and the tide was pretty strong against me. I finally cranked up the Honda and putted to more fair winds. Thanks for the reality check. As I said....new to this GPS thing.
 
Jun 13, 2015
12
Newport Holiday 20 Lititz, Pa.
Are you sure.....?

The following rant has nothing to do with the device in question - I have no idea?(Though I like the "You're going backwards, no matter what your "analog" compass says. A compass only knows North(If you're lucky?). A GPS knows which way you're going.). If the unit in question has an "actual" compass IN IT, it may be affected by magnets, metal, etc. But here, sounds like your GPS said you were going backwards. Look Out Behind You!

Even if an answer is found for this case, I recommend, with anything new or otherwise unknown(Even if it's old), to - Start At The Beginning.

One more "thought", before diving in. If any electronic/computerized device has a problem - particularly a problem it "didn't have yesterday...", the first thing to try is to reboot/restart/turn-off, then back on, unplug, re-plug the device(Whatever "resets" the device without changing any settings or deleting any data - the procedure, often called "soft reset", is in the manual, isn't it? I don't know.). Works about 99.99 percent of the time.

If that doesn't help, and you never did(Or didn't do all) the following(And more I can't remember, myself, at the moment - I should be mowing the lawn or something, but this is more fun...), let's give some of this stuff a try...

From the top:

Download manual for the unit, prior to purchase - read same, carefully. Ask questions on forums, of sales folks or the manufacturer, if needed. Be v-e-r-y familiar with what you are going to buy, before you buy it. 40 years ago this could be tough. Now, with everything you need to know just a click or two away, on computer, tablet or phone, there are no excuses - we can do our research, therefore we must.

After acquiring a new "thing", in this case an electronic thing:

Pull-up, on computer(Or get out, if you bothered to print) the manual.

Open box - pull out device, checking that it's all there, and in(At least visually) good shape.

Find(Or acquire) any cabling needed to hook device to computer(You may need a "real" computer for this?). If you find you don't need it now, you will. Keep it in an easy to find place. Keep all packaging materials(Found a really great USB cable in a keyboard box, 3 months after I bought the thing - it was taped under the fancy cardboard insert the keyboard was laying in - it was supposed to be "in there" - and it was...).

Go to the manufacturer website. Find any updated software or firmware(Or manual addendums, etc.). Install same, following manufacturers instructions exactly.

This unit's last update was July 6, 2015... Yes? No?

After verifying proper updates(If any), begin to explore the unit(Best done at home, in a quiet space, with plenty of time and energy.). You may not be able to do everything, however, you can "get knowledgeable", and, set-up most settings. May take several "evenings"? Sooo much "stuff" in any device! Check for updates of all devices often.

This widget has a 30 page manual - with a lot of words.

The hardest part of a new device('Cause we really are so anxious to go use the thing!) is going through each and every setting - learning what they all mean - whether you need to change any settings - changing settings - making sure they actually changed - knowing if changing a setting "here", causes other changes "there".

Aside: Far as ANY new thing, these days - unless it's very new(Being an "early adopter" is not advised for something that you may really need to "work", now!). If you have ANY problem you can't seem to find an answer for --- Type the question you have(In exactly your words, first, though, you may have to revise, several times, your actual words, to get to "your" answer.) into your favorite search engine and see what others say. Careful! Anyone can write anything on the internet(I am!). Still, there is a wealth of wonderful information "out there" on almost any question we have. Often not "in depth"(Books and Libraries are for that.), but "little questions", some discussion - yes.
Always remember - There are good writers. There are good answers. The two do not always meet. Won't take much time to find spots with generally reliable answers(SBO.Com seems a good spot, to me.), but one still must "pick & choose" one's answers, as always. I look for sites/authors who seem to agree with what I believe I already know, then attempt to give them the benefit of the doubt for maybe knowing more than I do - but be careful. Don't bet the boat(Or farm) on an uncertain internet answer.

Caution! If NO ONE seems to have any idea of YOUR question??? Stop, and go to the manufacturer. You may have an issue that is rare/new/unknown(Yet?). Or, you may be completely wrong about the question in the first place!(Happens often to me... "Oh, that's what it means..! OK...").

Some settings or operation/testing, may have to wait for actual installation. Go as far as you can go "in home".

Install the device - perfectly, according to instructions(You already researched, in advance of purchase, that this could be done, right?). Still, if you, later, find you cannot install as COMPLETELY recommended, call the manufacturer for recommendations. This "thing" still may(Or not) work for you...

All installed, all correct, all "set", all functioning - go try it in it's planned use. Actually, only in "close" to planned use... Do not count on this thing until you've tested it - in this case "at the dock", then, in calm- unhurried waters. Not on your only 2 weeks on the water for the whole year. Not as the storm is bearing down. Try to do so at a time when you have internet(And something to get on the internet with, easily, legibly - your tiny smart phone may not seem so smart if you really need to read what's on the screen.) and --- when the manufacturer may answer the phone... On the water is no time to even try to do a Sunday, 7:30AM "chat"...

Aside: Try, prior to purchase, getting to the manufacturer tech support and asking questions. If you find EXCELLENT help, easily acquired, wonderful! If not? Go elsewhere. These days, Tech Support is the #1 reason to buy "this" over "that". All the best "specs" and gold-plated cases are meaningless, if Tech Support is hard to get or of poor quality. As long as it works, the device can be dealt with. Poor or No TS must bust the deal, before it is made.

Devices are simple. It's the multitude of settings and options and "features" that can be too hard to even try to bother with them all. Just because a manufacturer "can" throw this or that "in there" is no excuse to do so. Manufacturers are having a really hard time learning this. Customers are, meanwhile, buried in multi-multi-multi functions they've never even heard of, let alone need. I wish you well...

All I got, now. Dogs are hollering in the back yard. I have my own device investigations to pursue. Planning a complete throw-out and upgrade of my entire voiceover recording studio, with a limited budget. Got to do it. My fancy gear is older than my grand child, who is now in 9th. grade...... Alright, much of my stuff is older than my 20 year old grand child - sigh... I bought right - after long research. So right that it still works great, but, when it fails(Surely during an important gig - they're all important.) none of it can be replaced --- really old. The 2 ancient, tiny, sailboats on my limited property(My neighbors are getting restless.), and the old pop-up camper, all in need of serious work, will have to continue to wait. Will try to do a Dwyer order this week(I said that last week?)... Big Sigh... Have fun with your gadget - looks very cool. Still...... I bet, if it's a GPS, seemingly running "fine", it knows which way you're going...... There is a sign near me, in front of a church. It says: "Are you sure you're on the right road?" I've been seeing that sign for 30+ years, and I still don't know. I hope you do. Have fun!

Teddy G.
www.teddygvo.com
 
May 24, 2015
9
Islander 28 Palm Coast
The compass will point magnetic north without any external influence and an up to date chart will show deviation. The sun is due south around noon.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,305
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
I recently browsed thru my Garmin 76 csx manual and there is a section on "swinging" the GPS compass similar to the method you would use for the compass on your binnacle. I think the compass function is actually supposed to work exactly like a real compass where the position you are sighting is the heading (not the actual direction you are traveling). It is intended to be used even when you are just standing still.

The compass swinging is done simply by standing still and rotating around in a circle, I think. The GPS screen tells you when you are rotating at the right speed for calibration. That's all I'm familiar with since I haven't actually done it. Maybe you have this kind of calibration method that you should be reading up on in your manual.

You also have to make sure in settings that you have the right datum (and deviation?) as well. I've never had an actual need for an accurate compass, but I did sight it on the North Star one time and thought it was pretty good.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
I recently browsed thru my Garmin 76 csx manual and there is a section on "swinging" the GPS compass similar to the method you would use for the compass on your binnacle. I think the compass function is actually supposed to work exactly like a real compass where the position you are sighting is the heading (not the actual direction you are traveling). It is intended to be used even when you are just standing still.

The compass swinging is done simply by standing still and rotating around in a circle, I think. The GPS screen tells you when you are rotating at the right speed for calibration. That's all I'm familiar with since I haven't actually done it. Maybe you have this kind of calibration method that you should be reading up on in your manual.

You also have to make sure in settings that you have the right datum (and deviation?) as well. I've never had an actual need for an accurate compass, but I did sight it on the North Star one time and thought it was pretty good.
Some handheld GPS devices (like this one mentioned) have a 2D or 3D solid state magnetometers built in. This allows their built in compass function to work even when the user is not walking. This happens all the time on handhelds where the user stands in one spot and points in a circle with the device.

This calibration routine is for this hardware, and NOT for the GPS.
 
Jan 5, 2009
2
Beneteau 373 Trvis
Sounds like a north up problem

It's possible that you either had north up or not north up set up on your gps and you were making an assumption of the direction based on the screen. Possible - I didn't read ALL the posts so I might be off base on what you were posting but it is a problem a lot of times when looking at a screen.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,305
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Yes, good explanation ...

Some handheld GPS devices (like this one mentioned) have a 2D or 3D solid state magnetometers built in. This allows their built in compass function to work even when the user is not walking. This happens all the time on handhelds where the user stands in one spot and points in a circle with the device.

This calibration routine is for this hardware, and NOT for the GPS.
I would guess that the chartplotters don't have this function.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
I would guess that the chartplotters don't have this function.
Ta-da! ;^)

If a boat has an electric compass (normally for its AP) then it will often have a similar procedure. Boats almost always had fluxgate units (impractical because of size on handhelds). Now they too are moving to solid state.
 
Jul 5, 2015
1
Capital Yachts 1968 Neptune 16 Bumping Lake, WA
Check the settings

No it has not been calibrated but it is generally correct checking it against other compasses that I have. I really don't think this is a calibration issue. If my compass is off then it is only slightly off. I'm talking about 180 degrees or so difference between what my compass reads and what the GPS reads. Thanks.
Have you checked the settings? Is it possible that you have it set for southern hemisphere? Just a thought.
 
Feb 17, 2006
5,274
Lancer 27PS MCB Camp Pendleton KF6BL
The compass will point magnetic north without any external influence and an up to date chart will show deviation. The sun is due south around noon.
Actually, during the summer months (Daylight Saving Time), the sun crosses your meridian around 13:00 (plus or minus) depending on the Equation of Time. During the winter months (Standard time) the sun crosses around noon (plus or minus). Unless one is in a state that keeps Standard Time always.

But it is all good.
 
Oct 21, 2014
190
Oday 22 Richmond
I can't thank you all individually but to everyone who has posted....thanks. I think the answer lies in the fact that there is no reference point on a GPS like there is with a magnetic compass. It is looking at a bunch of satellites and doesn't care how it is oriented on your boat. There is no lubber line. If you are drifting or even going backwards in a strong current or tide and light winds then the GPS is going to display that movement regardless of what your agnetic compass says. As I said I'm going out into the Chesapeake bay for a few days this week and I will definitely know what's going on. I obviously am not going to rely on the GPS readings until I figure it out. I have a new Richie compass mounted on the cabin and an emergency handheld along with all the latest charts. This is not my first rodeo. It's just the first time I have ever had a GPS and there is quite a learning curve. As I stated earlier, the only thing I really was looking for is a good depth finder. They are available for about $100.00 but since I had to mount a transducer anyway, I figured that for another $200.00 I could upgrade to GPS capabilities. One reason for having GPS capabilities is that if the crap hits the fan it would be nice to be able to radio an exact position rather then the usual "couple of miles off Smith point" . Thanks again.
 

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
8,217
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
You're kind of right. The satellites don't care which way the gps unit is oriented. It just provides reference data for the calculator inside the gps to translate into something meaningful. It's like the relationship between a database and a spreadsheet. In other words... not matter which way you're holding it on the boat, or in the car, the display will show the data as if you were watching it from shore.... it relates to the boat's movement.. it doesn't know if it's going forward or backward.

It is therefore the operators job to set the gps unit up .. first would be the correct map datum, then how you want the lat/long displayed (there are choices here) and how you want the display oriented. North up or course up. Finally you choose the gps features you want displayed... speed, course, distance to waypoint, vmg etc.....

There are a number of ways to display the lat/long readout.. they are all explained in the owner's manual. Some use decimal points, some use deg/minutes/seconds,

I will tell you this... there is an internal battery in gps units that store satellite data. When these batteries poop out the gps is not able to find and read it. My first call if the gps were to get wacky would be to the manufacturer's customer service dept.
 
Feb 17, 2006
5,274
Lancer 27PS MCB Camp Pendleton KF6BL
You possibly have one more source for testing. If you have an iPhone, use the compass in your device. It uses AGPS (Assisted GPS) via the cell towers and satellites to show you which way you are pointed. Standalone GPS can do this IF the algorithm is written into the firmware. My older Garmin will not point correctly unless I am moving. If you have an Android device, find and install GPS Test. It is free and uses all GPS satellites and AGPS. Either way, you can test with multiple devices.

Have fun in the Bay and watch out for those crab pots.