Good vendor report

[Maine Sail]

After 20+ years I was due for a new Forstner bit set. While cruising through Fine Woodworking magazine I came across an article on Forstner Bits. The Grizzly 16 bit set came in with the top spot for quality/value. While not Freud bits, and also not $163.65 for 16, they were reported to cut clean holes in all woods including veneers.

I decided to order this set. Grizzly shipped it same day and even with ground shipping it was here on the second day! The best part of the whole transaction was however their catalog. For those of you who do any wood working I highly recommend this catalog. It is the epitome of a "guys" catalog!! It's about as thick as the WM catalog but with higher quality pages and photos. I will continue to buy from Grizzly because their service, price and quality are a very good mix. I highly recommend them.

BTW the last time I ordered from harbor Freight it took 18 days to get my in stock order and the quality of the particular tool I bought was abhorrent, even at the rock bottom price!

Grizzly 16pc Forstner Bit Set $29.95 (LINK)

P.S. Tools are ALWAYS boat related!!

 

[Tim R.]

Great timing. Yesterday I was searching for a 1 3/16" forstner bit. I thought about purchasing a set but I could not find a set with that size at Rockler(they don't even sell the individual bit). Grizzly has a nice 1/16" set that I just ordered. I have most of the 1/4" sizes individually.

 

[Paul356]

So, do they cut well?

 

[sailingdog]

Maine Sail—

Going cheap on tools is generally never a bargain.... you pay for the cheap ones...then pay what you should have for the ones you should have gotten in the first place.

 

[Maine Sail]

So, do they cut well?

Yes they cut very well!!

 

[Maine Sail]

Maine Sail—

Going cheap on tools is generally never a bargain.... you pay for the cheap ones...then pay what you should have for the ones you should have gotten in the first place.

While I generally subscribe to that theory there are always exceptions to that rule. If these had not had such a good recommendation from Fine Woodworking magazine I never would have given them a second look.

With the plethora of tools I own I have lots of example where the high quality/high price tool is clearly better but with others tools it is not always the case.

Take for example my 30 year old 3/8" breaker bar made by Crafstman and my 20 year old 3/8" breaker bar made by Snap-On. Both have performed flawlessly, both have been cranked on well beyond what they should have yet the Crafstman breaker bar cost about 1/3 of what the Snap-On did. Will i ever buy anotehr Sanp-On breaker bar for multitudes more money than a Craftsman when my Crafstman has lasted 30 years and is still going strong??

My last set of Forstner bits lasted 20 years and survived many petrified oak beams on a house that we owned that was built in 1790. It too was an inexpensive set, not cheap at the time but middle of the road Woodworkers Warehouse stuff, that I paid about $30.00 for at the time.

I can guarantee a set of Freuds would not have lasted any longer with how I treted them. that being said for $90.00 I could buy three cheap sets and get 60 years of use and still not be at the price of one set of Freud Forstner bits. At a 20 year, fairly abusive life span, and a $30.00 cost to match the price of one set of Freud bits I could buy fives sets of middle of the road quality bits and get 100 years out of them....

Some tools you can find for less than the top price. My buddy owns a cabinet making shop and makes his living off of this. The majority of his shop is Grizzly so I would not consider it "cheap" stuff as in Harbor Freight cheap..

P.S. I killed four Makita 4 1/2" angle grinders (bearings) and finally bought a cheap one. I've now been waiting almost 9 years to kill it so I can justify buying a "good" one... I also killed two DeWalt 18V drills and too many batteries to count. I bought one of those Ryobi kits on a whim and guess what every single tool is still going strong and my One+ drill has seen more abuse than my second DeWalt did plus I have ten batteries for the price of two DeWalt batteries.....

There are always eceptions and with a Fine Woodworking "best buy" I think I'm safe for anotehr 20 years at least because the old hosue and 12" thick oak beams are gone and that is about 80% of what killed my last set oh and a few nails.....

Can my cheap Ryobi jig saw compete with my Bosch? NO!
Can my cheap Crafstman breaker bar compete with my Snap-On? YES!
Has my cheap 4 1/2" angle grinder lasted longer than my Makita's? Yes!
Can my HFT ratcheting crimpers compete with Ancor Crimpers? NO!
Has my cheap Ryobi drill lasted as long as my DeWalt? LONGER!!
Will my Dremel Multi-Max last as long as a Fein Multi-Master? Probably not but I could buy three for the price of one Fein.

You can't paint this stuff with abroad brush..

 

[Richard Bryer]

Maine- if you are a catalogue junkie- this may be of interest-

http://www.leevalley.com/home.aspx?c=1

Canadian company- $0.80 dollars- great hard copy catalogue. Generally their stuff is excellent quality but not the cheapest.

 

[sailingdog]

Maine Sail—

I'd make the distinction between inexpensive quality tools and cheap tools.

There are mid-level brands like Craftsman, and high-end, pro-quality tools like SK, Snap-On, Mac....etc. There's a definite spectrum of quality. While Craftsman are inexpensive, especially compared to Snap-On, they are by no means "cheap" tools IMHO. That would the the $19.99 200 piece socket set from China.

I'm not saying that you need to get Pro-quality tools...just that in many cases, paying for the decent "craftsman" grade tools is generally worth it. And, yes, there are exceptions to every rule.

I'd also point out that some brands had a very strong reputation from the past, and have gone downhill since then and are coasting on the strength of their past reputation in many ways.

 

[Maine Sail]

Maine- if you are a catalogue junkie- this may be of interest-

http://www.leevalley.com/home.aspx?c=1

Canadian company- $0.80 dollars- great hard copy catalogue. Generally their stuff is excellent quality but not the cheapest.

Thanks Richard I do get that one though have not seen a fresh one in a while.. Maybe this is a good idea for another thread. Some catalogs are really quite poorly done..

"What vendor catalog is your favorite reading material?"

 

[Tim R.]

Sometime the difference between cheap tools and quality tools is the usage cycles. Maine Sail's craftsman breaker bar has worked great for him for many years but I bet he does not use it daily or even weekly like a professional might. He also accepts the fact that if it breaks, it will not cost him business for the time to go buy a new one. A mechanic on the other hand would rely on this tool and want the best he could get.

And I would bet that a contractor would have killed that Ryobi set in a month.

I usually always try to buy the best but I have an advantage of working for a distributor that sells to me for cost. And we only carry quality brands including professional lines of tools that contractors use.

But I do still own a 10 year old Harbor Freight 12v drill that continues to work. Batteries are a little beat but that would be the case for any manufacturer. I sure hope my Makita set last that long!

 

[Tim R.]

I'd also point out that some brands had a very strong reputation from the past, and have gone downhill since then and are coasting on the strength of their past reputation in many ways.

Some quality brands have also lowered their standards on some lines so they can get into the big box stores.

 

[Scott B]

Thanks Richard I do get that one though have not seen a fresh one in a while.. Maybe this is a good idea for another thread. Some catalogs are really quite poorly done..

"What vendor catalog is your favorite reading material?"

Oh Yeaaaahhhh Lee Valley :dance::dance:


And Fine Woodworking and Fine Homebuilding ..... I think I have back to issue 01 or close .... and bought off the shelf at the time.

 

[Paul J. Rusyniak]

Learned at my Father's knee (an auto mechanic extraordinaire):
Value has three components:
Price
Quality
Service

All three must be present for true value.

Most of the CRAFTSMAN brand hand tools that I'm familiar with have a lifetime guarantee.

I still have some of my Father's 50+ year old Black & Decker tools. They weigh probably three times the new versions and add credence to the adage that "newer isn't necessarily better".

Paul

 

[tommays]

I tell you what Dewalt batterys and chargers have lifespan problems

My Hitachi and Ryobi chargers shut OFF when the battery is to HOT or CHARGED the BETTER Dewalt just keeps cooking the battery

 

[PKFK]

Lee Valley = excellent products, excellent service.

I live in Ottawa and can heartily recommend these guys. (We have a store here as well so you can drool over the real stuff, not just the catalogues).

They are an old-fashioned no B.S. kind of store - they stand behind everything they sell, and NEVER sell their customer info to junk-mail lists.

If they don't happen to carry what you are looking for, they will also help you locate it - I have done this several times looking for "boat stuff" at the 'Valley'.

Paul

 

[TimCup]

Maine Sail, I agree cheap can be good sometimes-

tired of stripping phillip head screws with my Ryobi 18 volt drill/driver, I decided to get an impact driver (also, they're smaller than the drills, for our tight spaces!). Went to the big box stores, and decent ones were $179to $250. Cheap was$119, but with only 1/5 the torque of the $250 driver. Then noticed Ryobi has one for $69- and has about 90% of the pricey one's torque!!

It uses the batteries I have 6 of, and has been flawless for a year, with all the power I could ask for.

Even Ross would like this deal!!

cup

 

[Richard Bryer]

On the topic of which tools are of good quality and which are not, this site, which some of you are familiar with, does a great job of rating a fairly long list of power tools.

http://www.triton381.com/resources/tools.htm

 

[Ross]

In my power tools I have never been disappointed with Milwalkee, Bosch, Porter-Cable or Makita. I can't say as much for Dewalt or Black and Decker Although my thiry year old sawcat is still going strong. Good forstner bits last a long time when used in clean wood. I have a Black and Decker commercial grade right angle grinder that just won't die. I did all of the glass work on Bietzpadlin with that one. Saw blades are no better than what you pay for them Hilti are the best I have used and Milwalkee are a real close second.

 

[Tim R.]

On the topic of which tools are of good quality and which are not, this site, which some of you are familiar with, does a great job of rating a fairly long list of power tools.

http://www.triton381.com/resources/tools.htm

That's Tim Lackey's site. He does great work. I have seen some of it up close. It is worth your time to look at the complete website.

BTW, one of the best boat tools I own is a Dewalt right angle cordless drill. Very handy for tight spaces.

http://www.dewalt.com/us/articles/article.asp?Site=product&ID=1254

And of course my Fein Multimaster.

 

[soulesailor]

Some quality brands have also lowered their standards on some lines so they can get into the big box stores.

This is completely true! If getting into the box stores is their motive I can't say but every tool brand I know of has good quality tools and poor quality tools. You can't go on brand name alone, which makes it quite difficult to make good decisions and threads like this so incredibly helpful.

I'm not surprised MaineSail had poor experiences with his DeWalt drills and Makita angle grinder. These are examples of decent companies but poor tool lines. DeWalt does make some good tools, like their palm sanders as does Makita with their side-arm circular saws.

Craftsman is another example. Wrenches and bars and other solid hand tools? Yes. Definitely. Power tools? Unh...not so good. You can do way better for the money.

I think $30 for a set of Grizzly forstner bits is a great deal and I'm kinda jealous. And my next impact driver...the Panasonic. Their power tools suck, except for their impact drivers which have excellent reputations.