I am a complete newbie in the market for a sailboat. I am preparing to take some sail courses offered by the Red Cross and Sarasota Sailing Squadron. At the same time I want to start looking for what I want in a sailboat. I think I want a 25', but perhaps a 22' will do. I'll be looking to spend something under $8-10k. Most of my sailing will be done in the sheltered waters of Sarasota Bay, but I'd also like the ability to safely cruise in the Gulf of Mexico. I have some friends with early '80s Catalina 25's, who swear by them. Conveniently, there are always a lot of Catalina 25's available in my area. I am also looking at the selection of Hunters, Beneteaus, MacGregors, O'day's, etc in my size/price range that are available in the area. Is there one boat make that stands out as better than others for my situation? I want to be able to solo sail it, and also to weekend on it with my wife. If you can offer a young starter any wisdom I'd greatly appreciate it.
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Jeff D
Suggestion
I would go to Yachtworld, link below. Then put in size, 22 - 25 and then under price 5000 to 10000. You will be amazed at the variety and quality of boats available.
I would go to Yachtworld, link below. Then put in size, 22 - 25 and then under price 5000 to 10000. You will be amazed at the variety and quality of boats available.
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Bill O'Donovan
Size matters
You'll be much happier in a 25 than a 22. You can actually overnight on a 25. And there are many available at 8-10k.
You'll be much happier in a 25 than a 22. You can actually overnight on a 25. And there are many available at 8-10k.
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Larry W.
starter
Eric; You might want to think about learning to sail a dinghy before you jump into overnighters. Spend a season on a Lido 14 or a Coronado 15 or similar to really learn the ways of the wind and water. It'll pay off in the longer run and make you a better sailor.
Eric; You might want to think about learning to sail a dinghy before you jump into overnighters. Spend a season on a Lido 14 or a Coronado 15 or similar to really learn the ways of the wind and water. It'll pay off in the longer run and make you a better sailor.
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Doug
I agree
I agree with Larry. Though you will have no real trouble in learning to sail a larger boat, experience in a small boat first is invaluable. In the long run you will be a much better sailor. You can get a feel for what sailing is all about in a smaller boat, that you will miss in a 22 or 25. I presently sail a 30, and constantly bring to bear the lessons I learned in the small boats I sailed as a kid.
I agree with Larry. Though you will have no real trouble in learning to sail a larger boat, experience in a small boat first is invaluable. In the long run you will be a much better sailor. You can get a feel for what sailing is all about in a smaller boat, that you will miss in a 22 or 25. I presently sail a 30, and constantly bring to bear the lessons I learned in the small boats I sailed as a kid.
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Rick Belisle
89 Hunter 23
When we first got into sailing, we looked long and hard, attended a few boat shows, sailed with friends on their boats (22 - 30 feet) and really thought about what we wanted and how we would use a boat.We felt we would spend little time actually eating and more time entertaining, relaxing and actually sailing. Did we need a boat with a full-time table inthe cabin? No! Ultimately, we settled on a '89 Hunter 23. It had a slide-way galley, fold-up table in the cabin, and offered plenty of room for 6 adults down below to drink, talk, etc. She also trailered easily, sailed like a rocket, and was easy to care for. We later moved from PA to WI and felt comfortable on Lake Michigan with her. As our skills grew, we ultimately moved to a larger boat. Our original is still sailed on Lake Michigan, and we often say that, were we to move to an inland lake, we would look around for another '89.
When we first got into sailing, we looked long and hard, attended a few boat shows, sailed with friends on their boats (22 - 30 feet) and really thought about what we wanted and how we would use a boat.We felt we would spend little time actually eating and more time entertaining, relaxing and actually sailing. Did we need a boat with a full-time table inthe cabin? No! Ultimately, we settled on a '89 Hunter 23. It had a slide-way galley, fold-up table in the cabin, and offered plenty of room for 6 adults down below to drink, talk, etc. She also trailered easily, sailed like a rocket, and was easy to care for. We later moved from PA to WI and felt comfortable on Lake Michigan with her. As our skills grew, we ultimately moved to a larger boat. Our original is still sailed on Lake Michigan, and we often say that, were we to move to an inland lake, we would look around for another '89.
A few things to think about
From your post, I concluded you're planning to keep the boat in the water. That's good...it's the best way to maximize your sailing time. However, depending on boat length and marina location and amenities, a slip may run $150 to $300 a month. Less expensive slips are usually farther away from open water (more motoring). You'll also need antifouling paint to protect the hull against barnacles, weeds and other sea life. Antifouling needs to be renewed every 12 to 24 months and can easily run over $1000 by the time you add the cost of hauling the boat, hull cleaning and prep and labor. To delay this expense try to find a boat with fresh bottom paint. If you trailer the boat, you won't have these costs, especially if you can keep the trailer in your yard or nearby. Maintenance will be simple because the boat will be close to home. However you'll need a tow vehicle and you'll have to rig and derig the boat every time you go sailing. That can add two hours of work to your sailing day, unless you can find a marina or yard that will let you store the boat on the trailer with the boat rigged. Considering these things will help you make some decisions. Some boats will be eliminated from your search as a result. That's OK, because your search will be more focused. As far as an actual starter boat, I think small boats are better for learning. They're responsive and offer more feedback to input than larger boats, so you will develop skills quickly. They are inexpensive to purchase and maintain (most costs are proportional to the square or cube of the length). If you find out that sailing isn't your thing, you won't lose as much when you sell the boat (you may even MAKE money!). That being said, it goes without saying that you should not buy a new boat. Here are a few suggestions (in no particular order) based on availability, cost, ease of sailing, room/comfort and stability: Keelboats: Catalina 25, Catalina 22, Hunter 23.5, Hunter 23, Hunter 19, Capri 24, Com-Pac 19, Aquarius Daysailers: Flying Scot, Rhodes 19, Com-Pac 16, Precision 16, Capri 16 Try to find a boat with decent sails and see if you can get someone with some experience to go shopping with you. Good luck and happy sailing. Peter H23 "Raven"
From your post, I concluded you're planning to keep the boat in the water. That's good...it's the best way to maximize your sailing time. However, depending on boat length and marina location and amenities, a slip may run $150 to $300 a month. Less expensive slips are usually farther away from open water (more motoring). You'll also need antifouling paint to protect the hull against barnacles, weeds and other sea life. Antifouling needs to be renewed every 12 to 24 months and can easily run over $1000 by the time you add the cost of hauling the boat, hull cleaning and prep and labor. To delay this expense try to find a boat with fresh bottom paint. If you trailer the boat, you won't have these costs, especially if you can keep the trailer in your yard or nearby. Maintenance will be simple because the boat will be close to home. However you'll need a tow vehicle and you'll have to rig and derig the boat every time you go sailing. That can add two hours of work to your sailing day, unless you can find a marina or yard that will let you store the boat on the trailer with the boat rigged. Considering these things will help you make some decisions. Some boats will be eliminated from your search as a result. That's OK, because your search will be more focused. As far as an actual starter boat, I think small boats are better for learning. They're responsive and offer more feedback to input than larger boats, so you will develop skills quickly. They are inexpensive to purchase and maintain (most costs are proportional to the square or cube of the length). If you find out that sailing isn't your thing, you won't lose as much when you sell the boat (you may even MAKE money!). That being said, it goes without saying that you should not buy a new boat. Here are a few suggestions (in no particular order) based on availability, cost, ease of sailing, room/comfort and stability: Keelboats: Catalina 25, Catalina 22, Hunter 23.5, Hunter 23, Hunter 19, Capri 24, Com-Pac 19, Aquarius Daysailers: Flying Scot, Rhodes 19, Com-Pac 16, Precision 16, Capri 16 Try to find a boat with decent sails and see if you can get someone with some experience to go shopping with you. Good luck and happy sailing. Peter H23 "Raven"
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David Foster
Read "the first season"
This report of the results of a similar conversation last spring is from a new owner on a Cherubini Hunter 25 - another good candidate for your consideration. But my strongest recommendation is to go out and look at available boats (we found an agent who was most helpful, despite the minimal fee for a boat below $10,000.) Find a boat you like, and then get a good survey as part of the purchase agreement. There are a number of "classic plastic" good old boats in your size and price range that could be just what you want. With a survey to protect you, you can just buy the one you like! Good sailing, David Lady Lillie '77 h27
This report of the results of a similar conversation last spring is from a new owner on a Cherubini Hunter 25 - another good candidate for your consideration. But my strongest recommendation is to go out and look at available boats (we found an agent who was most helpful, despite the minimal fee for a boat below $10,000.) Find a boat you like, and then get a good survey as part of the purchase agreement. There are a number of "classic plastic" good old boats in your size and price range that could be just what you want. With a survey to protect you, you can just buy the one you like! Good sailing, David Lady Lillie '77 h27
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Bob
Larry's right.
Spend a season with a small daysailer, and crew for other skippers whenever you can on the sorts of boats you'll be looking at. You will learn a lot about what you want in a boat, both from the experience in being on theirs, and from talking with them. Just as importantly, you will learn what you DON'T want. Some small things, like the angle of the cockpit seat backs, don't become major irritants until you've had the boat a while. One thing to keep in mind is that as boat size increases, so do the size and cost of all maintenance, repairs, hardware and fittings. If your budget is limited, be careful - there is a point at which the boat starts owning YOU. If you hold off on buying a small cruiser for a year, you will have an extra year to be looking and perhaps run across a super deal. It's a buyer's market, especially if you're not in a hurry and can afford to walk away from any given deal.
Spend a season with a small daysailer, and crew for other skippers whenever you can on the sorts of boats you'll be looking at. You will learn a lot about what you want in a boat, both from the experience in being on theirs, and from talking with them. Just as importantly, you will learn what you DON'T want. Some small things, like the angle of the cockpit seat backs, don't become major irritants until you've had the boat a while. One thing to keep in mind is that as boat size increases, so do the size and cost of all maintenance, repairs, hardware and fittings. If your budget is limited, be careful - there is a point at which the boat starts owning YOU. If you hold off on buying a small cruiser for a year, you will have an extra year to be looking and perhaps run across a super deal. It's a buyer's market, especially if you're not in a hurry and can afford to walk away from any given deal.
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Bob
By the way,
Practical Sailor's book 'Practical Boatbuying' has good reviews of at least 16 popular boats in that size range. Even if you don't end up choosing one of those, you will have a much better idea of what to look for after reading about them.
Practical Sailor's book 'Practical Boatbuying' has good reviews of at least 16 popular boats in that size range. Even if you don't end up choosing one of those, you will have a much better idea of what to look for after reading about them.
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Rick D
Smaller is better
Got to go with Larry on this one,smaller is better to start.I sailed a 14 paceship in narraganset bay for 20 years in all weather, if you can handel that solo, any boat, any size will be a piece of cake to sail
Got to go with Larry on this one,smaller is better to start.I sailed a 14 paceship in narraganset bay for 20 years in all weather, if you can handel that solo, any boat, any size will be a piece of cake to sail
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MArk
It's not the size...
it's what you do with it! I started with a Venture 17 20 years ago. Very easy to sail. Very forgiving. Learned the basics in 6 months and was ready for more. Made a babystep to an O'Day 20 with more bells and whistles. Now I live on the Gulf of Mexico and I'm wanting more again, but I'll stay in a trailerable range if I can find one that works for me. If you want to do things like tweek the mast curve, add a traveler, topping lift, boom vang, roller furler, etc. or you want to spend more than 1 day at a time aboard, look for a mid-sized 24'-26'. If the boat is going to stay wet then by all means, get something with a full-keel or fin-keel (Cat, Hunter, Benny, O'Day). If you're going to park it on the hard, get a shallow draft centerboard that sits low on the trailer like a MacGregor 25 or 26 so you can launch anywhere and rig it fast. Happy sails _/), MArk
it's what you do with it! I started with a Venture 17 20 years ago. Very easy to sail. Very forgiving. Learned the basics in 6 months and was ready for more. Made a babystep to an O'Day 20 with more bells and whistles. Now I live on the Gulf of Mexico and I'm wanting more again, but I'll stay in a trailerable range if I can find one that works for me. If you want to do things like tweek the mast curve, add a traveler, topping lift, boom vang, roller furler, etc. or you want to spend more than 1 day at a time aboard, look for a mid-sized 24'-26'. If the boat is going to stay wet then by all means, get something with a full-keel or fin-keel (Cat, Hunter, Benny, O'Day). If you're going to park it on the hard, get a shallow draft centerboard that sits low on the trailer like a MacGregor 25 or 26 so you can launch anywhere and rig it fast. Happy sails _/), MArk
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Eric DeGrave
Thanks!
Thanks for all your advice! My boat will stay in the water. A family member lives on the water and has an unused dock with sailboat water. It's about a mile cruise to get to the Gulf from her protected canal. An experienced sailor could sail it, but as I'll just be getting started, I'll be motoring out to open water, as the channel is very narrow. I'm looking for a mid-twenties length boat because I want to be able to overnight on it.
Thanks for all your advice! My boat will stay in the water. A family member lives on the water and has an unused dock with sailboat water. It's about a mile cruise to get to the Gulf from her protected canal. An experienced sailor could sail it, but as I'll just be getting started, I'll be motoring out to open water, as the channel is very narrow. I'm looking for a mid-twenties length boat because I want to be able to overnight on it.
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Jim B
Eric - 3 years ago I was trying to decide the same
After alot of research my (very) short list came down to the Catalina 25 and the Oday 25 . I ended up with the ODay. I was looking for something that would handle fairly skinny water and was really leaning toward the catalina but the wingkeels were out of my price range and the internet BB's spooked me on the swing keel. In the last three years the only time I have wished my boat was smaller is when the slip fee is being calculated. Put 4 or 5 people on a less than 26 foot boat and it gets small quick. Also if you want your wife or girlfriend to go along as well as female guest I have two words of advice "enclosed head". You will have a hard time finding that on anything less than a 25. If sailing becomes your passion you will want to be out there all the time. The thing you have to remember is that while your loved ones and friends may become interested in sailing and willing to participate it may not become a passion for them. If you want some companionship out there it has to be a comfortable and fun experience. The only circumstances that would lead me to a smaller boat would be if I was frequently trailering the boat or I was singlehandleing the boat most of the time. It takes me around 4 hours to rig the boat at launch and around that much again at retreival so you really dont want to dink that much for even a 3 day weekend. Hope this gives you somethings to think about and helps with your decision.
After alot of research my (very) short list came down to the Catalina 25 and the Oday 25 . I ended up with the ODay. I was looking for something that would handle fairly skinny water and was really leaning toward the catalina but the wingkeels were out of my price range and the internet BB's spooked me on the swing keel. In the last three years the only time I have wished my boat was smaller is when the slip fee is being calculated. Put 4 or 5 people on a less than 26 foot boat and it gets small quick. Also if you want your wife or girlfriend to go along as well as female guest I have two words of advice "enclosed head". You will have a hard time finding that on anything less than a 25. If sailing becomes your passion you will want to be out there all the time. The thing you have to remember is that while your loved ones and friends may become interested in sailing and willing to participate it may not become a passion for them. If you want some companionship out there it has to be a comfortable and fun experience. The only circumstances that would lead me to a smaller boat would be if I was frequently trailering the boat or I was singlehandleing the boat most of the time. It takes me around 4 hours to rig the boat at launch and around that much again at retreival so you really dont want to dink that much for even a 3 day weekend. Hope this gives you somethings to think about and helps with your decision.
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David Guthridge
Start small but not to small!!
I started out with a Pearson Resolute 19 I and my wife sailed for four years. We enjoyed it very much but with no head or cabin at all I knew that if she was to spend more time with me I better get something bigger. I looked at Catalinas, Hunters, O'Days, and a few others in the 23-28 range. I discovered the 24-25s were a little small for my occasional family of five or more and the 28-30s were to big for me to single hand with my level of experience. One day I stumbled upon a Pearson 26. WOW!!! Built like a rock! Very solid but also very forgiving and quite nimble for her weight. Enclosed head and plenty of room for all yet I can take her out alone with no problem. Big cockpit and space on the foreward deck for sunning. This will be our 4th season with Imagination and we plan to keep her for a long time. I find she is perfect for the Patuxent River and the Chesapeake Bay. I am adding a roller this year and that should make sailing even easier. I went aboard no less than 25 boats before I made my decision and I learned a lot about what to look for that I wanted. Perhaps someday 5 footitis will infect me and I'll be off shoping again looking at more than 25 boats. I thought a 26 would be to big but you will find that if you push yourself just a little you will go that one or two feet more and be very happy you did. Good sailing David
I started out with a Pearson Resolute 19 I and my wife sailed for four years. We enjoyed it very much but with no head or cabin at all I knew that if she was to spend more time with me I better get something bigger. I looked at Catalinas, Hunters, O'Days, and a few others in the 23-28 range. I discovered the 24-25s were a little small for my occasional family of five or more and the 28-30s were to big for me to single hand with my level of experience. One day I stumbled upon a Pearson 26. WOW!!! Built like a rock! Very solid but also very forgiving and quite nimble for her weight. Enclosed head and plenty of room for all yet I can take her out alone with no problem. Big cockpit and space on the foreward deck for sunning. This will be our 4th season with Imagination and we plan to keep her for a long time. I find she is perfect for the Patuxent River and the Chesapeake Bay. I am adding a roller this year and that should make sailing even easier. I went aboard no less than 25 boats before I made my decision and I learned a lot about what to look for that I wanted. Perhaps someday 5 footitis will infect me and I'll be off shoping again looking at more than 25 boats. I thought a 26 would be to big but you will find that if you push yourself just a little you will go that one or two feet more and be very happy you did. Good sailing David
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hp
sailing should be fun
Keep it small and simple!!! Look at any marina and you'll see most or all of the bigger boats sitting at the dock most of the time. Most people end up day sailing most of the time. After a few months of spending the weekend on board you want the comfort of home. A catalina 22 or equivalent can be gunkholed on weekends every now and then but can be ready to sail in 10-15 minutes. Being able to take the boat home on a trailer is such an asset!!! It's usually very easy to get a 22 footer off when you run aground. A 30 footer is a lot more work. Been there, done that!! And the smaller boat is more fun to sail!!! Something like a laser is great to sail but hard to carry drinks etc. Surfing a Laser off the waves in the open ocean is the best!!! But most of us trade the sailing pleasure for comfort. It's nice to be able to go to the head or get a cold drink,take a nap while the wife sails. But the larger the boat IMHO the less sailing fun. Windsurfing is great too!!! Tom
Keep it small and simple!!! Look at any marina and you'll see most or all of the bigger boats sitting at the dock most of the time. Most people end up day sailing most of the time. After a few months of spending the weekend on board you want the comfort of home. A catalina 22 or equivalent can be gunkholed on weekends every now and then but can be ready to sail in 10-15 minutes. Being able to take the boat home on a trailer is such an asset!!! It's usually very easy to get a 22 footer off when you run aground. A 30 footer is a lot more work. Been there, done that!! And the smaller boat is more fun to sail!!! Something like a laser is great to sail but hard to carry drinks etc. Surfing a Laser off the waves in the open ocean is the best!!! But most of us trade the sailing pleasure for comfort. It's nice to be able to go to the head or get a cold drink,take a nap while the wife sails. But the larger the boat IMHO the less sailing fun. Windsurfing is great too!!! Tom
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