Good News, Bad News; Nail Biting Suspense

Status
Not open for further replies.
Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
Much to my surprise I have had an incredibly pleasant day, right up there with many I’ve spent underway. I love engines, it’s always nice to watch someone else work, and I learned an incredible amount that will stand me in good stead if I ever have to tackle something like this head gasket replacement myself.

The engine is back together and running and we’ve put it through a couple of oil changes with the oil looking progressively cleaner and no sign of additional water intrusion. We won’t know for sure until running it hard tomorrow for a couple of hours and doing a couple more oil changes.

The bad news is that the cost is going to be significantly higher than the estimate. However, having worked as tool passer, cleaner, and having made a few headlong dives into the engine compartment myself, I have not seen one bit of wasted effort. The mechanic is very fast and efficient but the clearances around this engine make a project like this very slow going on this boat.

When it came time to torque the head bolts we discovered that there was no way to fit the torque wrench into the space above the engine. We went on a shopping expedition and determined that no standard torque wrench will work in this installation without removing the engine from the boat due to the high shaft angle, low overhead clearance, and other obstructions. We were standing there stumped and depressed when I spotted this nifty little gadget for just $30.



The mechanic is definitely not a digital kind of guy so he was skeptical but we bought it. It turns any wrench into a torque wrench with the handle length being irrelevant as long as you can exert enough force. It beeps faster and faster and turns to a steady tone at the proper torque while LED flash. We checked it against the standard mechanical torque wrench and it was spot on. It was compact enough to get on the head bolts which are now torqued to the proper spec.

This engine is supposed to have the head bolts re-torqued after the first 250 hours of operation. This was clearly never done because it couldn’t have been without removing the engine from the boat which there is no evidence of. The RTV repair of the gasket boundary between cooling water and low pressure oil return shows that there was a problem. The Band-Aid repair held up for a few years and here I am. I am going to be very surprised tomorrow if I find out there is some other problem.

It suddenly struck me today that, even at this much higher bill, people spend comparable amounts to travel to places to have less fun than I did today. The mechanic is a pleasure to work with and talk to, it’s fun watching a machine that is such an important part of your life going back together and getting to know it so intimately. Cruising is expensive but I’m going to put the cost of all this on the pleasure side of the ledger instead of the aggravation side.

Of course, if oil shows up in the water again tomorrow, I’ll probably feel rather differently but, for the moment, life is good.
 

MSter

.
Apr 12, 2010
131
Sabre 38' MK II Oriental, NC
Roger, It's a pleasure reading of your adventures and the process of problem solving that is happening as we follow along. Sounds like things are progressing well and let's all hope Strider passes the next tests with flying colours.
Best of luck.
Mster
 

xcyz

.
Jan 22, 2008
174
Hunter 376
Um, looks like Harbor Freight saved the day yet again... They're always good for that onetime tool use. Hope everything goes well for you Roger...
 
Nov 6, 2006
10,093
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Good news ..
Looks like I have to get another tool for the shop.. Oh Darn..
We used some devices similar to that in doing maintenance on big petrochem equipment.. The ones we used were more than $30.. but like this one indespensible .. Going to be good to know that you can do the torque job at the 250 hour mark and have it set correctly.. Keeping fingers crossed for ya, Roger.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,047
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Great news.

It'll be more than a one time use. Roger said he has to retorque after some running time, right? :)
 
Dec 8, 2006
1,085
Oday 26 Starr, SC
tools

Great news.

It'll be more than a one time use. Roger said he has to re torque after some running time, right? :)
--------------------------------------- // -------------------------------------------------

RG said, "looks like Harbor Freight saved
the day yet again... They're always good
for that onetime tool use."

Then Stu said, "It'll be more than a one
time use. Roger said he has to re-torque
after some running time, right?"

Harbor Freight tools come primarily from
China. Understand that Harbor Freight tools
are good when working on boats because
if you drop one in the deep, they are one
time tools.

This conclusion is based on Chinese metal
work. When all is said and done the quality
of any Chinese metal product is suspect.

Understand that if your life depends on some
metal object made in China, look some where
else. Their metallurgy is not subject to good
quality control and sourcing.

That being said, in this case they had a tool
that may have done the job.

A quality instrument made in America, Germany
or Japan would likely cost 7 to 10 times the
amount at Harbor Freight. What is the price
of quality? of Trustworthiness?

Would I trust the accuracy of any instrument
from China? Only as to approximate or ball park
accuracy, not if my life depended on it. .

In this case it gets our man on the high seas going
again. The boat will not sink because of slightly
mis torqued bolts on engine. Sail on...

Ed K

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The quality of a man's life is in direct proportion [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]to his commitment to excellence, regardless of [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]his chosen field of endeavor. by [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Vince Lombardi [/FONT]




 
Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-torue-adapter-68283.htm

Reviews say too delicate to replace standard torque wrenches for everyday use and too bulky for many low clearance situation. However, they appear to be so accurate that some mechanics think they are worth having just for checking and calibrating mechanical wrenches.

In my situation, the clearance problem was space to swing the handle and the need to have it angled to the socket.

For the occasional torque needs of a boat with a small tool chest, this should be perfect.
 
Dec 8, 2006
1,085
Oday 26 Starr, SC
Tools

http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-torue-adapter-68283.htm

Reviews say too delicate to replace standard torque wrenches for everyday use and too bulky for many low clearance situation. However, they appear to be so accurate that some mechanics think they are worth having just for checking and calibrating mechanical wrenches.

In my situation, the clearance problem was space to swing the handle and the need to have it angled to the socket.

For the occasional torque needs of a boat with a small tool chest, this should be perfect.
------------------------ // ----------------------------------------------

I did not say do not buy and use. Just in
various words, understand their limitations.

When quality and trustworthiness matter, take
time to evaluate, analyze alternatives, costs
and all factors.

And I would further point out the quality of
Pakistani steel products derived from a long
history of making sharp knives...

Quality is a term that covers many things.
Think of all that goes into designing a quality
research vessel.

Ed K
 

Attachments

May 9, 2006
56
Beneteau 373 Mystic, CT
Roger;

Always enjoy seeing you get further along your path. Hope this is the fix, our fingers are crossed.

Have been surprised how often our adventures and individual experiences track. I purchased the same torque meter this spring for another inaccessible situation. Confirmed the accuracy as well, but did note it's limited to about 150 ft/lbs if I remember.

I had a somewhat similar oil adventure this Summer with my 3JH4E Yanmar, 2007 vintage, you might find "enjoyable":

I had an oil leakage problem that had been getting progressively worse over the past two years or so. Oil was dripping off the rear starboard side of the engine. I was concerned but the engine ran beautifully and I just put up with the drips and watched the oil level, and could not determine the cause. After one very rough trip down Buzzard's Bay, I found a lot of oil in the bilge and realized the rate of drippage was up to about 6 drips a minute! There has been a lot of discussion on line about difficulties in measuring the dip stick, over and under filling problems and problems with trying to remove the the oil with a suction rig. I was afraid I might have done untold damage. I fully cleaned the engine, added a port side access to be able to inspect and find the leak. I confirmed it wasn't the main seal, any of the gauges or oil lines, wasn't the valve cover or the oil breather diaphragm, or the oil cooler or the filter. All sides of the engine were oil free. I finally convinced myself it had to be a leaking seal on the oil pan or the "spacer" oil baffle/ block joint.. I was convinced a pull and perhaps a partial rebuild was required. I was getting totally frazzled. Finally, renouncing my Scottish heritage, I had the Yanmar mechanic at my marina, Noank Village Boatyard, assess the issue. When we talked he indicated that he hadn't seen an oil pan seal failure in a Yanmar in 20 years.

The punch line: Upon further inspection, he found the cause. This Yanmar has two oil fills, one on the timing case and one on the valve cover. Each yellow cover has a round rubber oil seal. He found that somehow (read my fault), the valve cover fill had two rings, and the timing cover fill had none. I rarely opened the timing cover fill, but clearly at some point I had inadvertently transferred both rings to one fill! The oil was leaking down the timing cover joint, down the under turned starboard edge of the oil pan (which has a 10 degree slope to aft) and was falling off at the rear port corner. The drip line wasn't visible under the pan edge.


The moral: Sometimes an experienced mechanic is worth his weight in gold. Total cost of repair, 2 hours of his time, no parts.

Look forward to seeing your westward progress. Am available if you need any support in the Mystic/ Ct River environs. I won't bother offering my, now questionable, diagnostic skills.
 
May 24, 2004
7,173
CC 30 South Florida
Hope your running under power test turns out OK. I was reviewing my shop manual and found what I had been looking for. In an engine the cylinder liners need to protrude above the engine block so that when the head is bolted on it compresses the liner down into the block and creates a good seal for compression, oil and water. I was looking for the table and it indicates that the "cylinder linear protrusion on a 3HM should be between 0.005-0.075 mm (0.0002-0.0030 in). I remembered that many years ago we had a similar problem with a modified for racing Renault engine and it turned out that one of the cylinder liners was below the protrusion specs causing head gasket failures at that cylinder. The way to check it is with a straight edge and a feeler gauge. Don't know if your mechanic checked it and I know that now you have closed the engine but it would be something to look at if the problem persists. The bad news is that to correct such a problem requires removal of the engine and practically constitutes a rebuild. The liner would need to be removed to add a spacer and replace seals. Obviously running an engine hard at WOT will exacerbate any weaknesses so take it kind of easy on the old girl and just run her at 3/4 of max rated RPM.
 
Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
Hope your running under power test turns out OK.
It did. We ran the engine near the maximum RPM it will develop tied to the dock, very heavy load due to prop not advancing, and no sight of water on the dipstick or any emulsion whatever. Exhaust is clean. Engine sounds better than it ever did.

We looked at the liners. The did stick out about the right amount.
 
May 27, 2012
1,152
Oday 222 Beaver Lake, Arkansas
Simply for quality and political reasons I rarely if ever buy anything Chinese, will go to great lengths to find any other source, and I stay out of harbor freight like the plague.

That said, there are times when you just have to give in. Not sure if this was in fact one of those times, but it worked.

Im curious though. If you didnt have room for a torque wrench, where did you find room for a breaker bar or ratchet? You had to turn that bugger with something.
 

BobT

.
Sep 29, 2008
239
Gulfstar 37 North East River, Chesapeake Bay
Sounds like progress! We all breathe easier when our vicarious voyage continues.

As for cheapie tools, we used to have a "rule" about buying tools from Sears even before China was a major source: the limit was one moving part, max. That meant hammers & wrenches were ok, but don't bet on anything more complicated! 10 years ago a Chinese drill bit was just about a waste the time it took to make it and the fuel to ship it here. They have made a lot of progress since, but the Rule is still in place.
 
May 24, 2004
7,173
CC 30 South Florida
My definition of Global Economy is that we can design and manufacture to our specifications the exact same crappy item anywhere in the world. Americam design, machinery, and training manufacture these items overseas. The Chinese did not invent crappy tools, we did. Let's wake up before it is to late.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.