Hello, new here and just lurking for a while. my questions are , found a 1983 cat 22 for around $2700 with trailer. trailer needs tires and the sails are the original. seller said sails are in great shape. it also needs new halyards. have not seen the boat in person because it is 200 miles away.of course the seller is telling all is well with the boat. the pics of the boat seem to look good. also has a early 80's OB 4.5 . so what would be a fair offer on this sailboat. i have priced halyards,tires,and sails. adds up quick. thanks for any help.
Good deal?
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Only 3 things matter in a boat: condition, condition, and condition. I would not recommend buying a boat, that you have not seen first, at any price. If this boat interests you, go look at it, start the motor, sail it. Only then can you decide how much this boat is worth to you. Take a read of Casey's "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" first and you will be well armed to evaluate this boat. Regard anything an owner states about this boat as anecdotal. Good luck.
ahhhh, the love of a boat
if you can't get a local (to the boat) marina or repair facility to at last do a buyer's check (mini-survey) then you need to go on an exploratory drive. could be the deal of the century, but is more likely toward the "money pit" end of things (approaching 30 years old) Since you state that you've already priced some of the confessed shortcomings and have come to grips with the speed with which these things add up, I would assume that you can't afford to, or simply will not, throw away the purchase price. That makes eyes-on prior to commital a non-negotiable. How long have you been shopping? What is it about this boat that captivates you? do you have any idea how many boats are out there right now? take a chill, look a the market and think about what this boat means to you, then CYA.
Here's a sample playing field for that boat:
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...ncyid=100&city=&pbsint=&boatsAddedSelected=-1
Dave
if you can't get a local (to the boat) marina or repair facility to at last do a buyer's check (mini-survey) then you need to go on an exploratory drive. could be the deal of the century, but is more likely toward the "money pit" end of things (approaching 30 years old) Since you state that you've already priced some of the confessed shortcomings and have come to grips with the speed with which these things add up, I would assume that you can't afford to, or simply will not, throw away the purchase price. That makes eyes-on prior to commital a non-negotiable. How long have you been shopping? What is it about this boat that captivates you? do you have any idea how many boats are out there right now? take a chill, look a the market and think about what this boat means to you, then CYA.
Here's a sample playing field for that boat:
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...ncyid=100&city=&pbsint=&boatsAddedSelected=-1
Dave
Consider the fact that the boat is 28 years old (or young if properly cared for). I bought a '79 last fall and have invested another $1700 plus many hours of reconditioning. But I believe we made a reasonable start throwing money into the "hole in the water". The boat sails well and is very ship shape but not bristol!
Things you must consider:
Remember - every choice has positives and negatives - use logical help when choosing - consider using or hiring a certified surveyor ($200 to $400)!
If the mast, boom, stays, shrowds and supports are compromised - keep looking.
If the hull or deck is excessively checked, cracked or has soft spots - keep looking.
Change all the interior cushions and foam ( DYI = $500).
Change all lines that are weathered or worn (Est. = $300)
Polish and restore topsides and deck - Paint and patch as necessary (DYI = $125).
Bottom - Scrape, sand, and sand again, prep and paint with 2 Qt. quality paint ($150).
Re-seal and change gunwhale (perimeter bump strip) ($400).
Reseal all windows and hardware ($30) (Window replacement $$$).
Make certain that the sails are Good to Excellent - Bad sails = Big $$.
Replace gas tank and hose, motor tune and H2O pump impeller (DYI $100).
Paint and rewire trailer, change bearings, new tires (2) (DYI = $175)
Safety gear, radio, horn, 1st aid kit, and life jackets ($200 to $800+)
Get everything you can from the previous owner. everything... lines, anchors Etc...
After all the work you will have an excellent time sailing and at the price of one high end GPS!.
PS: a good boating course is a super investment!
Things you must consider:
Remember - every choice has positives and negatives - use logical help when choosing - consider using or hiring a certified surveyor ($200 to $400)!
If the mast, boom, stays, shrowds and supports are compromised - keep looking.
If the hull or deck is excessively checked, cracked or has soft spots - keep looking.
Change all the interior cushions and foam ( DYI = $500).
Change all lines that are weathered or worn (Est. = $300)
Polish and restore topsides and deck - Paint and patch as necessary (DYI = $125).
Bottom - Scrape, sand, and sand again, prep and paint with 2 Qt. quality paint ($150).
Re-seal and change gunwhale (perimeter bump strip) ($400).
Reseal all windows and hardware ($30) (Window replacement $$$).
Make certain that the sails are Good to Excellent - Bad sails = Big $$.
Replace gas tank and hose, motor tune and H2O pump impeller (DYI $100).
Paint and rewire trailer, change bearings, new tires (2) (DYI = $175)
Safety gear, radio, horn, 1st aid kit, and life jackets ($200 to $800+)
Get everything you can from the previous owner. everything... lines, anchors Etc...
After all the work you will have an excellent time sailing and at the price of one high end GPS!.
PS: a good boating course is a super investment!
We bought our Lancer 25 in December of 2008
Boat - $2200
Trailer - $900
Trailer Brakes, tires, wiring $500
Upholstery - $300
Paint job $700
Dinghy $100
Some new standing rigging $200
Some new running rigging - $300
Used GPS & Blue Charts - $250
Yearly registration & insurance X3 - $1200
Total for having a sailboat for three years - $6650
Taking my family to the islands of Maine, Casco Bay, Saco Bay - Priceless.
Boat - $2200
Trailer - $900
Trailer Brakes, tires, wiring $500
Upholstery - $300
Paint job $700
Dinghy $100
Some new standing rigging $200
Some new running rigging - $300
Used GPS & Blue Charts - $250
Yearly registration & insurance X3 - $1200
Total for having a sailboat for three years - $6650
Taking my family to the islands of Maine, Casco Bay, Saco Bay - Priceless.
thanks for everyones input. the cat22 just seems like a good fit for me as i am new to the sport of sailboating. i think i will sit back and not be in such a hurry/rush to buy a boat until i find something alittle closer to home.maybe a little quick on the trigger to purchase and letting my wants get ahead of my needs. i am just excited about having a sailboat. so will slow done this process. would like a little bigger boat than a 22ft., but this seems to be a good size to start with.
I am just a bit puzzled... 200 miles is a rather short drive in my book to find a good deal on a boat. I once drove with my empty trailer the entire length of Florida to look at a 22ft sailboat in Miami, the pictures looked awesome. I brought home an empty trailer, the pictures were from another era and Mark the Shark lied about how recent the pictures were. Make a short event of driving to this place, a mini adventure. Sailing is about adventure, or at least over romanticizing the little trips we take.
Recess:
Yes, I flew 2,000 miles to look at the boat that I ultimately purchased. The we had it trucked 2,000 to its new home.
Yes, I flew 2,000 miles to look at the boat that I ultimately purchased. The we had it trucked 2,000 to its new home.
I think its worth a look as even if nothing comes of it as you will learn more about good/bad boats
I've traveled twice from SC to FL, Orlando and Ft Myers (@$650 gas!) to look at boats I was interested in. Both times they weren't as good as I perceived from discussion, etc with the owner. I bought both all the same. A trailer bearing exploded on one and but for the kindness of strangers, I would've been stranded for the w/end. They were (are) both worth it - but it costs and I'm a sucker for a sailboat. If I were more sensible I would do the checks mentioned by others. A C22 for 2700 should come with everything you need to put it in the water and enjoy but I wouldn't expect much better than scruffy but functional if it's priced fairly. I would be scouring sailingtexas, craigslist and sailboat listings. you're only up the road from me... (columbia) where's the boat at?
22ft is a great size for a first boat. $2700 is not a bad price for such a boat, motor and trailer, if it's in decent condition. Keep in mind that it's still a rough time for many people, and believe it or not, some people do give up sailing for many reasons... so this could be a fair condition boat at a fair price, or a great boat that the owner just wants to unload fast.
Even if you're not in a hurry, i would recommend taking the trip to go have a look at it, so that you're starting to educate yourself on the market. If possible, take along a knowledgeable friend, who can guide you through the inspection. Be sure to research what similar boats are going for in your area.
We put together an overnight trip to look at a Cat 30 that sounded great. Twice before we made the trip I had the dealer on the phone as he walked through the entire boat and reported small details. We felt llike we knew what we were going to be looking at. Got to the boat and it was a mess. It had rust in so many places, had add ons that only detracted from its value and the selling price was $19,000. Honestly it was such a bad deal we decided that we would not even be interested if they gave it to us.
It was really a case of false advertising and I learned that the only way to evaluate a boat is to do it yourself in person.
It was really a case of false advertising and I learned that the only way to evaluate a boat is to do it yourself in person.
It may "seem" like a Good Deal but it certainly is NOT -- GOOD TRADE.
I say seem because from the very start of your post, you used a great number of prases that made my hair stand up on my nexk, such as, the price being "around $2700," needing tires, original sails (hey I have antique sails, it a great thing on a boat, yes?) and so on. The more I read, the more I think "seems like a great deal" was really only a great deal for the seller.
Which brings me back to my boat, GOOD TRADE. I found the boat of my dreams, a Pearson P-31, that had been neglected for some time. When I finally made a deal with the seller (via his wife, no less), I managed to sell my old boat, a 1972 Hunter with "original sails," pocket ~$400, and pay off the new boat.
I'd like to think that it was a good deal for everyone, but not wanting to assume too much, we settled on GOOD TRADE.
I say seem because from the very start of your post, you used a great number of prases that made my hair stand up on my nexk, such as, the price being "around $2700," needing tires, original sails (hey I have antique sails, it a great thing on a boat, yes?) and so on. The more I read, the more I think "seems like a great deal" was really only a great deal for the seller.
Which brings me back to my boat, GOOD TRADE. I found the boat of my dreams, a Pearson P-31, that had been neglected for some time. When I finally made a deal with the seller (via his wife, no less), I managed to sell my old boat, a 1972 Hunter with "original sails," pocket ~$400, and pay off the new boat.
I'd like to think that it was a good deal for everyone, but not wanting to assume too much, we settled on GOOD TRADE.
hey jpfx the boat is in roanoke va. the age on the sails worry me without even seeing the boat. even if boat is in decent shape sails are going to cost me around $1100-1200. jpfx want to go to roanoke?
shame it's the wrong direction... age isn't necessarily a problem with sails. If the sails are blown out you probably wouldn't know without someone experienced casting an eye over them with the wind in them. Not me I'm afraid! blown out sails make it more difficult to point into the wind and can be more hazardous in brisk conditions because you can't get them flat to bleed off the wind. For someone new to sailing... it's confusing when you think you're doing the right thing and there's no effect. when are you planning to go to roanoke?
Some years ago, I was between boats and looking. I thought I found the "perfect boat" at a fair price. I talked to the owner on the phone a number of times and asked him what I thought to be the "right" questions as the boat was a 4 hour drive away. All of his answers were positive enough for me to make the drive to take a personal look. When I got to the local marina where the boat was located, I could see the boat from my car window. I saw enough from the car to turn around and go home. The boat was, IMHO, a wreck. Always be skeptical of what sellers claim. As Reagan said, "trust but verify."
We had a C22 (1981) from 1982 or 3 to 1987. We'd been sailing rental boats, but "knew" when we saw this one that it was in perfect shape. The owner was a big burly and nice fella who had two high schools sons and the family was just too big for the boat. We got a great deal on an almost new boat with all the bells and whistles. That said, I still had to spend $$ to lead the halyards aft, set up an anchoring system and a few other things.
We wanted a bigger boat and started looking at ONLY C25s. Spent a year doing it and cried at some of the wrecks we saw. How could someone do that to a boat!?!
Same thing for the YEAR we spent looking for our C34, and actually made an offer on one that looked good but the survey showed lots of things wrong and the owner lied about the working fridge. Finally found our "dream boat."
Basically, "curb your enthusiasm" for a bit, read the books suggested, and GO LOOK at a bunch of boats. After a while, it'll become evident to you about condition and the other things.
Also lurk on the C22 owner's association website and learn about the boat. www.catalina22.org or dot com.
Good luck, keep comin' back here.
We wanted a bigger boat and started looking at ONLY C25s. Spent a year doing it and cried at some of the wrecks we saw. How could someone do that to a boat!?!
Same thing for the YEAR we spent looking for our C34, and actually made an offer on one that looked good but the survey showed lots of things wrong and the owner lied about the working fridge. Finally found our "dream boat."
Basically, "curb your enthusiasm" for a bit, read the books suggested, and GO LOOK at a bunch of boats. After a while, it'll become evident to you about condition and the other things.
Also lurk on the C22 owner's association website and learn about the boat. www.catalina22.org or dot com.
Good luck, keep comin' back here.
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