golf Cart Battery question

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Jan 22, 2008
1,483
Hunter 37 C sloop Punta Gorda FL
We have been on a can in Boot Key Harbor for 10 days or so. Never in one spot for so long before.
My 6 golfcart house bank drops below 12 volts with little amp hour draw. I am using a honda 2000 generator to run the bank up till I am only putting in 10-15 amps at 13.7 or 13.8 volts. After charging, bank shows 12.2-12.3 volts. After 30 amphours voltage drops to 11.8-11.9. I think I have one bad cell, have removed that pair now have 4 glof carts. Same problem.

Is this OK? "They" say automotove batts are 12.6 fully charged. 12.0 discharged. I don't remember seeing "golf cart" numbers.
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,435
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
The "numbers" are similar - below 12V is not a good sign... Absent any other info such as how much of a charge voltage actually appears AT the batteries, it sounds like the bank, or some portion of it, might be due for retirement.

It might be informative to know how much voltage is actually present at the battery terminals - an indication of many things but among the most overlooked is a bad contact not apparent from a simple visual inspection.
 
Jan 22, 2008
1,483
Hunter 37 C sloop Punta Gorda FL
Thanks. Will fire up the Honda later today and check voltage at the terminals pair by pair.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
We have been on a can in Boot Key Harbor for 10 days or so. Never in one spot for so long before.
My 6 golfcart house bank drops below 12 volts with little amp hour draw. I am using a honda 2000 generator to run the bank up till I am only putting in 10-15 amps at 13.7 or 13.8 volts. After charging, bank shows 12.2-12.3 volts. After 30 amphours voltage drops to 11.8-11.9. I think I have one bad cell, have removed that pair now have 4 glof carts. Same problem.

Is this OK? "They" say automotove batts are 12.6 fully charged. 12.0 discharged. I don't remember seeing "golf cart" numbers.
Sounds like you're not getting your batteries fully charged. 10-15A at 13.7 - 13.8 is still well in absorption range. The voltage should be higher.

1-What is the actual voltage at the battery bank + post when charging, not on the charger or the display but on the terminal? 13.7-13.8 is very low for absorption charging. Your voltage should be upwards of 14.6V. Trojan prefers 14.8V for absorption charging voltages.

Voltage is "pressure", increase the voltage and more current flows. You should get to less than 2% acceptance of "C" (C is capacity at the 20 hour Ah rating) with at least 14.4V at the battery terminal BEFORE you go into float mode. Ideally I like to see less than 1.5% acceptance before the charger enters float. On older sulfated banks this threshold changes and you may never get below 2% @ 14.4V this is why manufacturers & monitor folks often suggest 2%. Once in float mode the accepted charge current will drop in relation to the new float voltage. Simply bumping the voltage up and down at the same SOC changes how much current will flow into the battery.

For example I have a group 31 wet cell on my bench right now that is taking just 0.12A to maintain 13.4V. It is a 90 Ah battery so at 13.4V this battery is accepting less than one tenth of one percent of its capacity to maintain a float voltage of 13.4V. I have seen healthy batteries taking .04A to maintain float.

The industry number you see of 2% acceptance for "full" are often driven by the battery monitor folks. 2% acceptance is not technically 100% full for a healthy battery. Lifeline battery for example suggests that a full battery can be considered when the battery is taking .5% of "C" (20 hour Ah capacity) at 14.4V....

2- A fully charged wet cell battery with a resting voltage reading will be about 12.7 - 12.73 depending upon the manufacturer, not the 12.6V "they" suggest.. "They" have been stealing 10% of your banks capacity from you or about 70Ah, that you PAID FOR.... 70Ah is an entire group 24 battery you did not know you had........:doh: Every .1V counts when it comes to battery SOC... Two six volt batteries are a 12V...

These are Trojan's values:

100% = 12.73
90% = 12.62
80% = 12.50
70% = 12.37
60% = 12.24
50% = 12.10
40% = 11.96
30% = 11.81
20% = 11.66
10% = 11.51

Note that the difference between 12.62 and 12.73 is 10% of the banks capacity!!! 12.6V is less than 90% SOC for most brands. Each tenth of a volt is roughly 10% of capacity.

3- What charger are you using? Is it programmable? It is likely going into float prematurely because your bank is beyond its recommended size range. Some chargers also lower the voltage, to be self protective, if they are getting to hot. Lowing the voltage reduces the current output and the charger runs cooler. Lower voltage means less accepted current to the battery.

4- To FULLY charge a 675 Ah bank of golf cart batteries will take 10+ hours and this is with a BIG charger. Your battery bank will accept about 165A of current in bulk (below 80% state of charge) and a Honda 2000 simply can't support a charger or chargers anywhere near that capacity. Once above 80% state of charge the accepted current diminishes and the "finishing" process is simply a matter of time and less about current. Also you have a charge efficiency to consider. You'll need to put back about 115 - 120% of what you took out to reach full....

There may be nothing wrong with your bank other than some some sulfation due to chronic under charging. They probably at least need to be equalized at this point after checking the specific gravity, then fully charging (to a real 100%) and topping up the electrolyte.

5- Be SURE your bank is wired to the loads and charge sources correctly. + and - should come off opposite ends of the bank your you will create an intra-bank imbalance which can lead to shorter life. This is one of the most often violated "bank non, no's" I see.
 
Jan 22, 2008
1,483
Hunter 37 C sloop Punta Gorda FL
Sounds like you're not getting your batteries fully charged. 10-15A at 13.7 - 13.8 is still well in absorption range. The voltage should be higher.
Thanks for the help MS. I shut the Honda off yesterday, knowing that the bank was not fully charged. Won't do that today.

Using a Xantrex freedom 2000 sine wave Inverter/charger. Don't have the specs in front of me , but I think 50 amp charger

Found a second cell with low acid reading, so I physically re arranged the batteries now have 4 golf carts with good acid readings in the house bank, 2 with bad cells not wired up. Talked with the admiral about replacing the batts. Decided to try to limp along until we get home. Then I can charge the batteries, mix and match and equalize to my hearts content before lugging batteries and check book around.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Thanks for the help MS. I shut the Honda off yesterday, knowing that the bank was not fully charged. Won't do that today.

Using a Xantrex freedom 2000 sine wave Inverter/charger. Don't have the specs in front of me , but I think 50 amp charger

Found a second cell with low acid reading, so I physically re arranged the batteries now have 4 golf carts with good acid readings in the house bank, 2 with bad cells not wired up. Talked with the admiral about replacing the batts. Decided to try to limp along until we get home. Then I can charge the batteries, mix and match and equalize to my hearts content before lugging batteries and check book around.
With a 50A charger just getting from 50% to 80% state of charge would require a run of about 4 hours on a 675 Ah bank or about 2.5 hours into a 450 Ah bank. This is providing the charger is pumping out 50A consistently. The last 20% can take multiples the time it took to do bulk...
 
Mar 14, 2012
131
Beneteau Oceanis 40CC Brisbane, CA
Then I can charge the batteries, mix and match and equalize to my hearts content before lugging batteries and check book around.
I believe it is considered poor practice to mix old and new batteries in a bank. The older batteries will drain the new batteries because they are running at a reduced capacity.

I recently replaced the 6 GC batteries on my boat. I decided to go with CostCo GC2 batteries at $90 per battery. These are made by the same mfg of Jnterstate batteries (Johnson Controls) and are the same capacity (225Ah @) and weight as their Interstate counterparts. It seems a very good price/performance ratio.

Visit Maine Sail's forum http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/forumdisplay.php?f=135 and browse his great battery threads. Especially the thread about his tests of Wal Mart batteries. While the specific batteries he tested are no longer available it is good example of how proper maintenance is more important than the brand name sticker on the battery case.
 
Jan 22, 2008
1,483
Hunter 37 C sloop Punta Gorda FL
Thanks again MS. Running the honda all day till happy hour. Not geting much.

Disagreement between Freedom which says it is putting out 30 amps and Victron which says it is seeing 15-20. If I have residual voltage over 12.1 tomorrow, we will continue to cruise the keys. If not will head home where 110 is free not $3per foot.
 
Apr 8, 2010
1,606
Frers 33 41426 Westport, CT
Thanks again MS. Running the honda all day till happy hour. Not geting much.

Disagreement between Freedom which says it is putting out 30 amps and Victron which says it is seeing 15-20. If I have residual voltage over 12.1 tomorrow, we will continue to cruise the keys. If not will head home where 110 is free not $3per foot.
Sounds like you may have a bad connection somewhere. Check all your connections, don't just look at them, take them apart and clean them.
 
Jan 22, 2008
1,483
Hunter 37 C sloop Punta Gorda FL
Bill, do you have the remote panel for your Freedom?
yes, but it is just on off. not a link 1000 or 2000

Good news is I got fully charged today. went from 14.4 v 12 amps in to 13.4 and 2 amps in. Ran honda well past happy hour.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,047
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Hope that means you keep on cruisin'. Any idea why it seemingly all of a sudden now works?
 
Dec 19, 2006
5,832
Hunter 36 Punta Gorda
Equalize

Hi Bill hope you can go on enjoying your trip but maybe if you can go into a Marina and plug in shore power and use your inverter/charger to equalize while you are hooked to shore power.
If you need help with the inverter charger I have the 2000 manual at the boat.

Nick
 
Jan 22, 2008
1,483
Hunter 37 C sloop Punta Gorda FL
Thanks everybody for your help. Found 2 bad cells with a walmart quality hygrometer. Physically re arranged batteries and removed the offenders from the house bank. Ran Honda 2000 for 8-10 hours. Actually got beyond bulk to float stage about 7 last night. Voltage at 12.4 this morning, so we will continue to cruise.
First day we will motorsail up the inside route north of the keys toward Cowpen's anchorage and so further charge the 4 remaining golf carts.

Thanks again for everybody's help and good wishes.
 
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