Going Solar

py26129 · Oct 12, 2012

Will probably work

Squidd said:
So I'm hopeing to get a "probably work" approval on the 80 watt flex/regulator/2 x deep cycle for my approx usage...??

Squidd

I'll give you the "probably work" based on the following.

We had a PY26 (inboard diesel) for 12 years that we used for our three week vacation each year. Our power usage was very close towhat you described in your post. I did replace most of the interior lights with LEDs (butnot the anchor light). We had two group 27 batteries onboard, 1 starting, 1 house. For the last 5 years that we owned the boat, we had a little 20W hard panel mounted to the stern pulpit, wired to charge the house battery. This was enough to keep us in juice for the three week trip (plenty of anchoring for multiple days in a row) and while at the dock in the marina as well. Teh batteries only saw a chargr when I took them home for the winter.

YMMV

Matt

Sumner · Oct 12, 2012

Squidd said:
...Herein lies the question...I read hard panels are more efficient than flex panels (2008 info/are they better now?) so Being a small boat I would leave the hard panel on shore when I go out, but a flex panel I might be able to make room for on the boat (so may get mid trip boost)
......So I'm hopeing to get a "probably work" approval on the 80 watt flex/regulator/2 x deep cycle for my approx usage...??

That boat isn't that small. Maybe think about a 100 watt panel off the stern where it would be out of the way and useful on your trips. If you get the flexible and take them with you there is the shading situation to deal with. Trying to find a place to put them where there is no shade.

I think you are right going to the 80 or 100 watt. Less would maintain a battery, but if you go out and come back in with a depleted battery and want to go out a few days later the larger panels will pay off.

Consider replacing the 2 12 volt batteries with a single house bank of 2 6 volt batteries. They would work better for your needs.

We have 200 watts on our 26 foot Mac and it is smaller than your boat, but that isn't needed unless you start doing some longer cruises.

We use MPPT controllers on both boats trying to maximize efficiency but for what you are doing I'd probably start at least with a less expensive (but still good brand) PMW controller. Size your wiring correctly...

https://www.colemanair.us/vp_asp/Scripts/Articles/TheBasicsAndBeyond5_WireSize.htm

...and good luck,

Sum

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py26129 · Oct 12, 2012

Squidd

I'd highly recommend the AltE Store if you need to order panels, controllers etc. Tehy have good prices and really good customer service. They will take the time to talk to you to make sure you are buying the right stuff.

http://www.altestore.com/store/

I am not afiliated in any way other than being a satisfied customer from when I added a panel on my new boat this summer.

Matt

tommays · Oct 12, 2012

Using the MAINSAIL style mount which stops most shading issues and boat space issues and a GENASUN MPPT CONTROL

I had NO issues keeping TWO group 27 battery's happy with a 40 watt Sunwize panel

With real measurements it puts out .3 amps at the crack of dawn and peaks out at 2.5 amps at high noon

The Bluesea ACR has done a fine job of directing the power were it belongs

I found my best bang for the buck were items like the Sensibulb LEDs as they have such a huge impact on my weekend energy use as the cabin lighting went form over 4 amps down into the tenths

tommays · Oct 12, 2012

The mount has no issues with my stern swim ladder or splat back-stay with adjuster

The flex panels are the about the worst bang for the buck

tommays · Oct 12, 2012

I will try and take a few shots of the panel on the water tomorrow

I run the motor about 15 minutes on a BAD week and while it has a 51 amp alternator it is NOT part of my charging plan

The Genasun controls ability to output usefull current in almost any condition is the single biggest factor in the systems success with a small panel

And after being in use from April 25th I can say without dought it is the best upgrade I have ever done

Maine Sail · Oct 12, 2012

Squidd said:
The other question is how inefficient are they..maybe a 40 solid will give me as much as an 80 flex...? with less room...

That's about right. An armorphous panel is about half as efficient as a mono or polycrystalline panel. This means you need about double the sq. inches of surface area for an armorphous than you would need for a mono or polycrystalline panel.

There are also semi-flexible panels such as Ganz and Solbian that are more efficient but you need to be careful with them and they are a lot more money.. I am installing a Solbian CP-125 next week onto a customers bimini. Sweet panel that will zip on and off the bimini and weighs about 4 pounds for a 125W panel... The down side is this is a 125W panel for over $800.00...

Mike B1026 · Oct 12, 2012

From the needs you described, (weekend use) a 20w or 40w should work well. (mono or poly panel) with controller. Mine mount on the rear rail and are adjustable. No need to take on and off.

Bill Roosa · Oct 13, 2012

There is a spreadsheet in the downloads area that will help you determine your energy budget.
My 2 minute SWAG tells me at a 40 watt panel (40/13.6=2.9 amps) collecting for 5 days is going to give you about 50 AH recharge.

jepomer · Oct 13, 2012

My Capri 22 has two battery banks. One Group 24 for the 12 volt "house" devices (lights, radio, depth finder), four GC2 in series providing 24 volts for the Torqeedo Cruise 2.0 electric motor.

• The boat was on a mooring this past season in Winthrop MA.
• Usual sailing is a weekend day and Wednesday "beer cans".
• Motoring is usually "fast" to the start line because we are late.
• A few times we have motor sailed around the Boston Harbor Islands.

• The 12 volt bank was charged with a Ganz 12 watt semi flexible panel and no charge controller.

• The 24 volt bank used a single 100 watt Solarland rigid panel (17 volt output) using Genasun GV 8A 24 volt Boost MPPT Controller which charged the 24 volt bank at the proper intelligent charging levels.

• Both solar panels were mounted on the rear pulpit using 1 inch diameter rail hardware from Defender. It was patterned after Maine Sail's examples on his Compass Marine site (www.pbase.com/mainecruising/boat_projects).

We never ran out of battery power. We could turn on the electric motor quickly and for a few minutes when needed to get out of situations. Our range is 2 hours at full throttle (hull speed). It is quieter than the Nissan 5 HP we started with, yet we have the same top speed and better maneuverability at low speed.

CHANGES FOR NEXT YEAR:
• add a Genasun GV4 4A 12V MPPT Controller to better control the charging of the house battery with the Ganz 12 watt panel (Ganz states that the 12 watt panel does not require regulation, but the radio would often report the voltage was too high when initially turned on)
• mount the Ganz 12 watt panel on the forward hatch (although it will get some shading, the charging time is more than adequate for my needs - may not work for everyone)
• replace setscrews in the rail hardware with drilled and tapped holes for screws

Sailm8 · Oct 13, 2012

Squidd said:
Yes, I did the led conversion as well on interior lights when I first got the boat, but I'm sure there is a saveings over the old bulbs...

My biggest draw seems to be laptop/charger when we play dvds, music, cruise the forums, etc...

I have an outboard motor and rudder as well as lifesling, grill and split backstay...so not real convinced I have room out back for solid panel...I don't even have room for a ladder, I have to hang that off the side...

I'm hopeing the flex panel works on the front deck, 99% of charging will be on shore/on trailer, fixed position...but with the flex panel I might have the option of picking up a few "bonus" amps here and there while out on the lake...

OK this is really thinking outside the box. Why not mount the solar panel on the trailer and leave it behind when you sail? You could put a big panel up and over the bow area where it is narrow and run wire back to the battery bank with quick disconnects. If all of your charging is 99% on the trailer why not use the trailer?

tommays · Oct 13, 2012

catsailor · Oct 13, 2012

I'll be contrarian. You don't need solar and it is the least cost effective or practical option for you. You need more batteries. I understand you may sometimes have trouble getting recharged; if that is the case consider a small panel to trickle charge while you are away. 20W-40W would be enough. If your batteries are dead and you bring panels with you to use while you are out, you will be disappointed; they will never get a dead battery bank up to useable voltage, not over a short weekend.

As I understand it, you keep the boat on a trailer and launch only for short trips. Thus, there is no need to charge at a mooring.

You are only need, by your own calculation, 20 AH per day refill. A single deep cycle battery can provide that much power for 2 days without getting into the reserve. Two group 27s will do fine.
________

I used to have a 27-foot boat that I cruised for up to 2 weeks (2 x group 24). With a stop in a marina every 3-4 days, I had all the power I needed for a boat used as you describe. Beyond 4 days, I simply pull started the motor and went to bed when it got dark. I do have solar on my current boat. It has MANY times the power hungry appliances, but even that boat had been cruised for 15 years before it got solar, on 3 x group 24 batteries. Eventually I did upgrade the batteries to group 27 and add 170W of solar. But between fans, lights, TV, auto pilot, refrigeration and CPAP, I use 75 AH each day when the family's all there. What with shading and clouds, the panels replace only about 2/3 of that.

I think you've been pulled toward spending money by reading too many catalogs and too many forum posts, and by looking at other boats. Add a 2nd battery and see if that isn't enough.
* Nothing to store.
* You will get some charging from the outboard. Not much, but some.
* Less installation.
* Less money.
* No sun required.
* No shading issues.
* Nothing in the way.
* You will need the 2nd battery to make solar work in the future, should your power needs go up.

Do the new batteries first, then decide. IF you decide to use a small panel, do not use a cheap RV panel designed to plug in the lighter or such. Get a small marine-suitable panel with a small regulator. Many--including me--have tried the cheap path, and it's a waste of time.

Benny17441 · Oct 15, 2012

Sorry, the power consumption of an average tiller pilot is 500 mili amps during operation or close to 65 mili amps during standby. This translates to a draw of 5-7 amps per 10 hours of continuous operating. That hardly creates a real need to support installing a solar panel. It seems that your current recharge and usage routine is working well for you. With the replacement of the two Group 24's with two deep cycles Group 27's I think you will cover the additional autopilots needs. The one thing I would look is into upgrading that 2 amp charger with a 3 cycle smart charger of 6 to 10 amps. There are some good automotive chargers for under $50.

thinwater · Oct 15, 2012

Squidd said:
I'm pretty sure the gr27 DC will add a lot of capacity compared to the old/half dead 24s I'm using now...That should cover current and anticipated usages..

My concern is getting "unplugged" during the week and not having the amps om Friday when I get up to the boat...So far it's worked out that the two times it happened, I had a silip for the night and was able to boost charge back up for the remainder...

But more often than not, I pull out on a Friday and anchor out and then I'd be fubared...

Thinking 80 watt solid with controler for the weekly charge, leave it with truck/trailer when I go out and find a spot for it on the boat if I do a week long (or longer) trip...

I thought the idea of mounting something on the trailer was clever, though 20 W is probably enough. But I think you are on the right track.

I would certainly get a controler large enough for the 80W panel and mount it in the boat. Then you have future options.