Because the beam of my H23 is carried well aft, sailing or motoring downwind in choppy seas can be a challenge. As waves approach from astern and pass under the boat, the stern swings hard one way and then the other, making it difficult to maintain a reasonably straight course. To keep the boat from corkscrewing (and my guests from hurling their lunch) I work the tiller hard to oppose the yaw as I feel the stern starting to lift. This works quite well. In an ocean swell when the waves are longer, I don't have to do this as much. However, while crewing recently on a larger boat (40 ft) the skipper kept the wheel straight, even though the ride was pretty uncomfortable. Is it because the boat had a wheel instead of a tiller? Does anyone have any opinions or experience in this regard? Thanks. Peter H23 "Raven"
Going downwind in heavy chop
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Bill O'Donovan
Wheel, schmeel
Downwind in heavy wind is tough going, just as the Edmund Fitzgerald. Better you should sail slightly off the wind on deep broad reach. You'll go faster and ride smoother, only to gybe once along the way. To avoid killing anyone, do a "controlled gybe" by pulling in the sheet slowly but all the way, then letting it out once you've made the turn. Impressive and painless!
Downwind in heavy wind is tough going, just as the Edmund Fitzgerald. Better you should sail slightly off the wind on deep broad reach. You'll go faster and ride smoother, only to gybe once along the way. To avoid killing anyone, do a "controlled gybe" by pulling in the sheet slowly but all the way, then letting it out once you've made the turn. Impressive and painless!
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Joe Boyette
smooth ride
Peter, I'm like you - I work the tiller (or wheel) to smooth out the ride if the motion is umcomfortable. However, this might have some effect on the speed of the boat. Maybe someone with more experience could comment on this side of the issue - does it matter in a race if you work the tiller a little? Will this slow you down?
Peter, I'm like you - I work the tiller (or wheel) to smooth out the ride if the motion is umcomfortable. However, this might have some effect on the speed of the boat. Maybe someone with more experience could comment on this side of the issue - does it matter in a race if you work the tiller a little? Will this slow you down?
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Frank Ladd
Turning slows the boat
Turning does slow the boat. To maintain the best speed you want the tiller turned only slightly. I'm not sure how this translates to speed when the boat itself is trying to broach in downwind waves. Maybe an experienced racer could let us know how this works in practice. For cruising I steer to keep the crew comfortable.
Turning does slow the boat. To maintain the best speed you want the tiller turned only slightly. I'm not sure how this translates to speed when the boat itself is trying to broach in downwind waves. Maybe an experienced racer could let us know how this works in practice. For cruising I steer to keep the crew comfortable.
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Mike DiMario
Tiller, Schmiller
I couldn't resist the title as a spoof on wheel schmeel. I guess that says it all. Anyhow, I think it nears absolute that it is faster to steer in a following sea state. The near broach not only plows the entire profile of the boat into the oncoming wave, the sails go crazy trying to figure out what is going on. In fact, the only way to exceed the hull speed of a displacement vessel is to surf. You can only surf, in a following see, if you play the Wheel/Scmeel,Tiller/Schmiller search game. Even though I do agree with Bill's analysis of more speed "off the wind", the steering similarities are still closely associated. IMHO, Mike D
I couldn't resist the title as a spoof on wheel schmeel. I guess that says it all. Anyhow, I think it nears absolute that it is faster to steer in a following sea state. The near broach not only plows the entire profile of the boat into the oncoming wave, the sails go crazy trying to figure out what is going on. In fact, the only way to exceed the hull speed of a displacement vessel is to surf. You can only surf, in a following see, if you play the Wheel/Scmeel,Tiller/Schmiller search game. Even though I do agree with Bill's analysis of more speed "off the wind", the steering similarities are still closely associated. IMHO, Mike D
Swinging the tiller
The thing I would most worry about with a tiller in a following sea is that the incoming rollers could take the rudder somewhere you don't want it to go, about the same way that reversing too quickly under power can do. Hang on! Smaller movements are better when you don't want to do TOO much-- and in this kind of weather two hands is a must. Wheel-steering people won't get as much kickback from the rudder and may not be so much at risk; people with worm-gear or rack-and-pinion steerers will get no kick-back at all, which is sometimes not a good thing. My first tendency in a following sea would be to 'hook up with it' and find the one course that lets you just run with it as-is. The sawing of the tiller back and forth is dangerous and tiring and sounds more like what I'd do with the waves just off the bow. If the weather is that bad you should be looking for the safest point of wind (quarter-run with main staying put?) and not trying to hold course to some mark anyway. JC 2
The thing I would most worry about with a tiller in a following sea is that the incoming rollers could take the rudder somewhere you don't want it to go, about the same way that reversing too quickly under power can do. Hang on! Smaller movements are better when you don't want to do TOO much-- and in this kind of weather two hands is a must. Wheel-steering people won't get as much kickback from the rudder and may not be so much at risk; people with worm-gear or rack-and-pinion steerers will get no kick-back at all, which is sometimes not a good thing. My first tendency in a following sea would be to 'hook up with it' and find the one course that lets you just run with it as-is. The sawing of the tiller back and forth is dangerous and tiring and sounds more like what I'd do with the waves just off the bow. If the weather is that bad you should be looking for the safest point of wind (quarter-run with main staying put?) and not trying to hold course to some mark anyway. JC 2
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Jeff Peltier
Timing
It's all in the timing. A small correction early is worth more than a big correction that is slightly late. You will develope a rhythm after a while, that some call being in the groove, which will make you more efficient. Some of the more expensive autopilots can actually learn this rhythm and do quite well, except in confused seas. Jeff Peltier
It's all in the timing. A small correction early is worth more than a big correction that is slightly late. You will develope a rhythm after a while, that some call being in the groove, which will make you more efficient. Some of the more expensive autopilots can actually learn this rhythm and do quite well, except in confused seas. Jeff Peltier
The plot thickens (plot, schmot??)
Thanks for the initial responses. Now here's the rest of the picture. My marina is in a wide open area on the western side of the Indian River lagoon. The entrance is a narrow opening in a low wooden breakwater. The whole area is very shallow (4 to 6 feet, even less in the troughs when there are waves) and the chop builds in a hurry. Safe harbor is downwind of the squalls that blow in off the Atlantic. The safest way in is to stay in the mile-long channel from deeper water. My usual point of sail down the channel is a broad reach so waves tend to approach from the quarter of the boat rather than dead astern. It's this angled approach to the beamy stern that makes the boat want to corkscrew. In addition to keeping an eye on the oncoming waves, I also use feedback from the tiller to make anticipatory adjustments rather than saw back and forth like a cello player on crack. My goal is not boatspeed so much as a controlled, fairly comfortable ride home. Any more comments are more than welcome. Thanks. Peter H23 "Raven"
Thanks for the initial responses. Now here's the rest of the picture. My marina is in a wide open area on the western side of the Indian River lagoon. The entrance is a narrow opening in a low wooden breakwater. The whole area is very shallow (4 to 6 feet, even less in the troughs when there are waves) and the chop builds in a hurry. Safe harbor is downwind of the squalls that blow in off the Atlantic. The safest way in is to stay in the mile-long channel from deeper water. My usual point of sail down the channel is a broad reach so waves tend to approach from the quarter of the boat rather than dead astern. It's this angled approach to the beamy stern that makes the boat want to corkscrew. In addition to keeping an eye on the oncoming waves, I also use feedback from the tiller to make anticipatory adjustments rather than saw back and forth like a cello player on crack. My goal is not boatspeed so much as a controlled, fairly comfortable ride home. Any more comments are more than welcome. Thanks. Peter H23 "Raven"
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