My wife and I are looking for a boat we can go crusing in. We ran across a Hunter 37'cutter a while back on one of the gangways, we both thought she had very nice lines. Our question is, how well are these boats built. Our plans are to sail from s.Calif.to Hawaii then north to Alaska. We hope to spend a year or so crusing down the coast till we get home.Can anyone give us a yah or nah on a trip like this with a boat like this? Also I know these boats were made in the late 70s through mid 80s are there any years we might want to stay away from due to poor design or material flaws? Any information on this boat would be welcome. Thank You, The Wendell's
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D
Don Bodemann`
A straight answer
Mike, First I must say I've never sailed or set foot on a 37C, but I have owned 2 Cherubini Hunters and have done a little research to support an article I wrote a while back that appeared in Good Old Boat magazine...(you might want to look it up). To hear from owners of the 37C, just look at the reviews here on the HOW. Keep in mind owners tend to report all the good stuff and are not too anxious to talk about the bad. These boats are approx. 20 years old now and are suffering from all the stuff that old boats suffer from. You'll want a survey for sure, to check on all the typical old boat ailments. Generally speaking, the Cherubinis were all good solid boats built with "Chevy" quality. their reputation has suffered somewhat from flaws found in the newer Hunters. I feel the hull and rigging is typically plenty strong. The designer has the reputation for drawing some of the best boats in the world for that era. So simply put, "great design
Mike, First I must say I've never sailed or set foot on a 37C, but I have owned 2 Cherubini Hunters and have done a little research to support an article I wrote a while back that appeared in Good Old Boat magazine...(you might want to look it up). To hear from owners of the 37C, just look at the reviews here on the HOW. Keep in mind owners tend to report all the good stuff and are not too anxious to talk about the bad. These boats are approx. 20 years old now and are suffering from all the stuff that old boats suffer from. You'll want a survey for sure, to check on all the typical old boat ailments. Generally speaking, the Cherubinis were all good solid boats built with "Chevy" quality. their reputation has suffered somewhat from flaws found in the newer Hunters. I feel the hull and rigging is typically plenty strong. The designer has the reputation for drawing some of the best boats in the world for that era. So simply put, "great design
to expand on Don's comments
Mike: I have always thought that this was probably the BEST Cherubini. There was a post a few weeks ago where someone was comparing these boats to a Tayana. The one thing I'll tell you that these boats are not the fastest boats in the world (you know that). The trip to Hawaii is about 2600 miles. This is probably a 2.5 to 3 week offshore trip. Regardless of the whether window you choose a lot can happen out there. My first statement to you would be to prepare the boat and prepare it well. I would figure that you need new sails, spares and new rigging. You want all new running rigging too. I would only consider a later model with a fresh water cooled engine and a mid boom sheeting. You are not going to want to be out the open ocean without a dodger. The earlier models have the traveler in the cockpit. This provides better control of the main but leaves you with a less than desireable dodger setup. You also need to consider your sail arrangemenet (2 roller furlers, 1 roller and a self tending staysail, hanked on jibs etc.). Full batten, lazy jack or dutchman etc. Other considerations is tankage (water and fuel). Depending on the whether in the Pacific it can be very calm out there for days on end. You probably want to consider having enough fuel to motor for about 25-35% of the miles that you are going to cover (125-150 gals). I do not know if there is a good rule of thumb for this but it's better to have too much than not enough. Don't forget your power requirement for house keeping refrigeration, autopilot and running lights and what ever else you may require. I think that if you get a good boat and prepare it well, it will serve you well on this journey. Check out the owners reviews. I think that most of the HOW reviews tend to bitch about the real problems of their boats.
Mike: I have always thought that this was probably the BEST Cherubini. There was a post a few weeks ago where someone was comparing these boats to a Tayana. The one thing I'll tell you that these boats are not the fastest boats in the world (you know that). The trip to Hawaii is about 2600 miles. This is probably a 2.5 to 3 week offshore trip. Regardless of the whether window you choose a lot can happen out there. My first statement to you would be to prepare the boat and prepare it well. I would figure that you need new sails, spares and new rigging. You want all new running rigging too. I would only consider a later model with a fresh water cooled engine and a mid boom sheeting. You are not going to want to be out the open ocean without a dodger. The earlier models have the traveler in the cockpit. This provides better control of the main but leaves you with a less than desireable dodger setup. You also need to consider your sail arrangemenet (2 roller furlers, 1 roller and a self tending staysail, hanked on jibs etc.). Full batten, lazy jack or dutchman etc. Other considerations is tankage (water and fuel). Depending on the whether in the Pacific it can be very calm out there for days on end. You probably want to consider having enough fuel to motor for about 25-35% of the miles that you are going to cover (125-150 gals). I do not know if there is a good rule of thumb for this but it's better to have too much than not enough. Don't forget your power requirement for house keeping refrigeration, autopilot and running lights and what ever else you may require. I think that if you get a good boat and prepare it well, it will serve you well on this journey. Check out the owners reviews. I think that most of the HOW reviews tend to bitch about the real problems of their boats.
J
Jim Legere
B
Bill
preparedness
Steve makes some good points about preparedness. IMHO, this is more important than degrees of seaworthiness of the vessel model, although that is important too. I guess what I mean is that on the assumption that you have a seaworthy boat, I recommend you focus on your skills, fitting her out, practicing such things as heavy weather sailing, anchoring/mooring, etc. On this, such books as those by the Pardeys are a great source of experience-based information. Good luck!
Steve makes some good points about preparedness. IMHO, this is more important than degrees of seaworthiness of the vessel model, although that is important too. I guess what I mean is that on the assumption that you have a seaworthy boat, I recommend you focus on your skills, fitting her out, practicing such things as heavy weather sailing, anchoring/mooring, etc. On this, such books as those by the Pardeys are a great source of experience-based information. Good luck!
A
Alan J
Blue water H37C
Last summer I sailed my 37C round trip to Bermuda. We went thru days of near calms to 40 knt. and the boat was wondrful. The reports on this site as to ports, tanks are faithful to what I found in my '85 and we found it to be a very seaworthy boat and I would not hesitate to take across the the Atlantic. I cant' say enough praise for the cutter rig for heavy weather. I spent a year getting the boat ready for off shore and had no gear failures while out. The best boat in the world is useless out there if you and the boat are not prepared. The only thing that I discovered out there was that the fresh water tank vents do not have an antisiphon valve and I spent the entire trip back from Bermuda to NY on one tack making 175 miles during on 24 hour period and one tank was contaminated with some salt water(since corrected) It's a great boat, prepare it and yourself well. Alan Johnson S/V Valhalla H37C
Last summer I sailed my 37C round trip to Bermuda. We went thru days of near calms to 40 knt. and the boat was wondrful. The reports on this site as to ports, tanks are faithful to what I found in my '85 and we found it to be a very seaworthy boat and I would not hesitate to take across the the Atlantic. I cant' say enough praise for the cutter rig for heavy weather. I spent a year getting the boat ready for off shore and had no gear failures while out. The best boat in the world is useless out there if you and the boat are not prepared. The only thing that I discovered out there was that the fresh water tank vents do not have an antisiphon valve and I spent the entire trip back from Bermuda to NY on one tack making 175 miles during on 24 hour period and one tank was contaminated with some salt water(since corrected) It's a great boat, prepare it and yourself well. Alan Johnson S/V Valhalla H37C
E
Ed Schenck
Blue water H37Cs.
Many have circumnavigated. There are several in the Hawaiian Islands and we occasionally get a note here on HOW from one in New Zealand. Those boats were not flown nor built over there. Contrary to Steve's comment the boat is not a slug. That was the biggest surprise for me. I bought it for seaworthiness(cutter and 18000#) but it goes and it's fun. I've also got over $10K in upgrades with another $10K(for a repower) to go before we do a crossing. The recommendation to find the earlier posting about comparisons is a good idea. Just do a forum search on H37C. At the boat show last night I climbed through many Hunters, Tartans, Benetaus, and C
Many have circumnavigated. There are several in the Hawaiian Islands and we occasionally get a note here on HOW from one in New Zealand. Those boats were not flown nor built over there. Contrary to Steve's comment the boat is not a slug. That was the biggest surprise for me. I bought it for seaworthiness(cutter and 18000#) but it goes and it's fun. I've also got over $10K in upgrades with another $10K(for a repower) to go before we do a crossing. The recommendation to find the earlier posting about comparisons is a good idea. Just do a forum search on H37C. At the boat show last night I climbed through many Hunters, Tartans, Benetaus, and C
Did not mean that they are slugs!
Ed: I did not mean that they are in any way a "SLUG". They are in fact a quicker boat than most of the real cruisers.
Ed: I did not mean that they are in any way a "SLUG". They are in fact a quicker boat than most of the real cruisers.
T
Tom
Follow-up to the straight answer
Don makes an excellent point about checking the boat carefully. You should budget 10-15K for a refit. I own a 1985 37C and have enjoyed it immensely. In the three years I have owned her we have sailed it to Bermuda and Newport, RI from Annapolis and found it to be solid and comfortable. So far, I have replaced the sails, updated the wiring, repaired the fiberglass on the top deck, re-bedded the stansions and the toe rail, replaced the hatches, (the plastic ones leak!), added modern electronics. I tried an alternative to removing the holding tank and it seems to have worked. I re-routed the pump-out hose from underneath the bed and through the closet to straight up behind the shower to the deck. I used the new "non-leaching" hoses and they really did the trick. Good luck.
Don makes an excellent point about checking the boat carefully. You should budget 10-15K for a refit. I own a 1985 37C and have enjoyed it immensely. In the three years I have owned her we have sailed it to Bermuda and Newport, RI from Annapolis and found it to be solid and comfortable. So far, I have replaced the sails, updated the wiring, repaired the fiberglass on the top deck, re-bedded the stansions and the toe rail, replaced the hatches, (the plastic ones leak!), added modern electronics. I tried an alternative to removing the holding tank and it seems to have worked. I re-routed the pump-out hose from underneath the bed and through the closet to straight up behind the shower to the deck. I used the new "non-leaching" hoses and they really did the trick. Good luck.
T
Tom Hadoulias
Ocean Going 37C's
Mike, As you can see, a lot of 37C owners have already or are willing to put their faith in long distance cruising aboard the 37C as a means to a reasonably priced vessel. When comparing the 37C to other vessels in the same cruising category you have to spend a lot more money to get the same amount of boat. Follow the archives and the owners in this forum will be glad to help you with questions you may have. I can give you my experiences as well. I am in the process of a complete re-fit preparing my vessel for long distance cruising, including the ability to make ocean passages should we decide we want to go beyond the east coast cruising grounds available to us. The boat is structually as sound as any production boat out there. Hunter's lamination build up on these models was up to the CE rating requirements for class "A" open ocean according to my conversations with the Hunter Engineering Group. Many of the fittings however were not. This includes portlights, some thru hulls, cockpit drainage and some other flaws that show up later on in the life of the boat. I also believe Mr. Cherubini's influence did not carry over into the later models bearing his name as a result of the Hunter design team taking over the original design and modifying it. I have exchanged emails with John Cherubini II, the designers son who was quite helpfull and informative on putting the perspective of his dads design parameters and how Hunter actually built the boats. All you have to do is look at the true Cherubini designs and those designs built by the Independence Cherubini Co. to see the difference. Definately a world class yacht! Perhaps John C. II may feel inclined to respond here as I do not want to draw any conclusions from our correspondence without his permission. As for the rest of us who cannot even think about affording the real thing, at least myself, we take pride in the fact that the design of our boat was done by a true naval architect who was considered a "Master" in his art. That said, the 37C becomes an excellent platform to expand the "design" concept into a fully capable blue water cruiser with the proper modifications and at a reasonable cost that would make this vessel comparable to those costing much more. If your budget allows and you don't want to work in preparing your boat an alternative would be to buy a ready to cruise used Island Packet, Pacific Sea Craft or other well found production yacht. If you don't mind some work and your handy with tools, a 37C is hard to beat for the money and quite frankly, I rather enjoy showing mine off to my friends that own "name brands" and paid for them as well. Not tied down to a large boat payment, I can leave at any time should the opportunity present inself. Good Luck with your selection and I will make one more suggestion at the possibility of getting some unfavorable response from some owners. The early models of 37C's were built substantial in that the designer was available and involved in early production builds even though Hunter manufactured them to a cost basis. The post runs were modified by the Hunter design team as the boats started to change to accomodate Hunters current line of thinking and ultimate evolution into what they are today. This change started with the new design moving the mainsheet traveler to the cabin top as it is my understanding that Mr. Cherubini would not have approved of this configuration. If my memory serves me correctly from information I have received, Mr. Cherubini was not involved in the 80's that much with Hunter anyway. To this end, the last model years of the 37C had a lot of Hunter engineering in them but I can't comment on the structual changes that may have taken place if any. I do know that the early models typically weigh more than the specifications published and the later models weighed less. The traveler on the early models can be relocated to the cabin top as mine has been to accomodate a dodger and full bimini but in late 1981 or 1982 Hunter went to the mid boom sheeting system. As already stated, get a good survey by a good surveyor and go from there. Tom Hadoulias S/V Lite Chop
Mike, As you can see, a lot of 37C owners have already or are willing to put their faith in long distance cruising aboard the 37C as a means to a reasonably priced vessel. When comparing the 37C to other vessels in the same cruising category you have to spend a lot more money to get the same amount of boat. Follow the archives and the owners in this forum will be glad to help you with questions you may have. I can give you my experiences as well. I am in the process of a complete re-fit preparing my vessel for long distance cruising, including the ability to make ocean passages should we decide we want to go beyond the east coast cruising grounds available to us. The boat is structually as sound as any production boat out there. Hunter's lamination build up on these models was up to the CE rating requirements for class "A" open ocean according to my conversations with the Hunter Engineering Group. Many of the fittings however were not. This includes portlights, some thru hulls, cockpit drainage and some other flaws that show up later on in the life of the boat. I also believe Mr. Cherubini's influence did not carry over into the later models bearing his name as a result of the Hunter design team taking over the original design and modifying it. I have exchanged emails with John Cherubini II, the designers son who was quite helpfull and informative on putting the perspective of his dads design parameters and how Hunter actually built the boats. All you have to do is look at the true Cherubini designs and those designs built by the Independence Cherubini Co. to see the difference. Definately a world class yacht! Perhaps John C. II may feel inclined to respond here as I do not want to draw any conclusions from our correspondence without his permission. As for the rest of us who cannot even think about affording the real thing, at least myself, we take pride in the fact that the design of our boat was done by a true naval architect who was considered a "Master" in his art. That said, the 37C becomes an excellent platform to expand the "design" concept into a fully capable blue water cruiser with the proper modifications and at a reasonable cost that would make this vessel comparable to those costing much more. If your budget allows and you don't want to work in preparing your boat an alternative would be to buy a ready to cruise used Island Packet, Pacific Sea Craft or other well found production yacht. If you don't mind some work and your handy with tools, a 37C is hard to beat for the money and quite frankly, I rather enjoy showing mine off to my friends that own "name brands" and paid for them as well. Not tied down to a large boat payment, I can leave at any time should the opportunity present inself. Good Luck with your selection and I will make one more suggestion at the possibility of getting some unfavorable response from some owners. The early models of 37C's were built substantial in that the designer was available and involved in early production builds even though Hunter manufactured them to a cost basis. The post runs were modified by the Hunter design team as the boats started to change to accomodate Hunters current line of thinking and ultimate evolution into what they are today. This change started with the new design moving the mainsheet traveler to the cabin top as it is my understanding that Mr. Cherubini would not have approved of this configuration. If my memory serves me correctly from information I have received, Mr. Cherubini was not involved in the 80's that much with Hunter anyway. To this end, the last model years of the 37C had a lot of Hunter engineering in them but I can't comment on the structual changes that may have taken place if any. I do know that the early models typically weigh more than the specifications published and the later models weighed less. The traveler on the early models can be relocated to the cabin top as mine has been to accomodate a dodger and full bimini but in late 1981 or 1982 Hunter went to the mid boom sheeting system. As already stated, get a good survey by a good surveyor and go from there. Tom Hadoulias S/V Lite Chop
R
Ron
From the Caribbean
Here is a copy of a note I received recently from a friend in the Carib. Where he mentions, "a boat like yours," he is speaking about and H37C...Ron Debbie and Ron, We had terrible propagation just prior to Christmas. We didn't pick your message up until 27 or 28 Dec. We had family for a visit until a day ago. We've now moved back to Martinique. I'll try to be better about listening in on the Maritime net. 2330 utc is a good time. We usually finish with friends on ssb by that time. I'll try to be better about listening in. Sometimes the net seems to get so wrapped up in the old timers chat, or guys in the states looking for signal reports or chatting about there rigs. I feel like they are blowing me off. Most of the net controllers are good, but a few are a waste. I worked the ARC finish line in St. Lucia this year. That was fun greeting people who had been at sea for 21 days, plus or minus, and hadn't spoken to someone other than their shipmates for awhile. While on the line I met a guy who has your exact same boat. He was one of the finish line boats. He and his wife have successfully cruised the boat for five years so far. Hope your Holidays were pleasant. Best wishes for a safe and prosperous New Year. Best, Jeff and Vicki aboard s/v Esther N
Here is a copy of a note I received recently from a friend in the Carib. Where he mentions, "a boat like yours," he is speaking about and H37C...Ron Debbie and Ron, We had terrible propagation just prior to Christmas. We didn't pick your message up until 27 or 28 Dec. We had family for a visit until a day ago. We've now moved back to Martinique. I'll try to be better about listening in on the Maritime net. 2330 utc is a good time. We usually finish with friends on ssb by that time. I'll try to be better about listening in. Sometimes the net seems to get so wrapped up in the old timers chat, or guys in the states looking for signal reports or chatting about there rigs. I feel like they are blowing me off. Most of the net controllers are good, but a few are a waste. I worked the ARC finish line in St. Lucia this year. That was fun greeting people who had been at sea for 21 days, plus or minus, and hadn't spoken to someone other than their shipmates for awhile. While on the line I met a guy who has your exact same boat. He was one of the finish line boats. He and his wife have successfully cruised the boat for five years so far. Hope your Holidays were pleasant. Best wishes for a safe and prosperous New Year. Best, Jeff and Vicki aboard s/v Esther N
the 37C offshore
I don't think there's anything terribly wrong about sailing a 'Chevy' quality boat like a Hunter into open water. The key is how well the nitwit in charge of the adventure prepares his boat! (pilot error, pilot error, all together now...) It is encouraging to see so many optimistic remarks and though I agree you never hear much bad news about a boat from people who like it, look at the logic behind that coincidence. These people like the boat for a REASON. I agree with the idea that earlier boats are better built. After the debacle involving the H30 that went aground in San Diego, both my dad and Hunter got in gear with the layup specs and whatnot. I never heard to what industry standards they were adhering but I would casually say that some of these hulls were built for ramming and driving over rocks and withstanding gunfire (exaggerating a little but you get the idea!). Among boats of this size, price range and production volume you may look hard to find another so ruggedly made. Age is probably your biggest factor here (and did I mention the boat's age too?). The usual stuff will go wrong, typically anywhere things from different suppliers or of different materials are put together. Re-bed everything. Assume nothing. I have to make one comment about the rig itself. There's been talk on the HOW about the utility of the double-headsail rig-- some love it, some despise it, and many do not really understand it. Obviously one asset is the ease in handing sail-- bringing in one sail is a fast way to reduce sail fast. This WAS a boat intended for shorthanded sailing by people in their 50s. But on a trip like California to Hawaii this rig will demonstrate exactly what it's best for. Case in point: in 1970 Robin Lee Graham got a new boat for the last fifth of his world voyage, home from the BVI to LA. He got a 33-ft Allied Seawind CUTTER and flew two roller-furling headsails on two whisker poles and typically NO MAIN at all. After all it's all downwind going west. Even back then it got me on the idea that the best set-up for cruising is two roller-furling headsails, each about a 135 of the available J (usually the outer one is higher-cut on the foot. I think Graham's was not however). It's easier than handling huge, expensive special-purpose sails that are no good past 25 kts and take up space in the forepeak for the 75% of the time you don't use them. It also requires little helmsman brain power to keep them both pulling properly (compared to with a large lightweight assymmetrical). We had two loose-footed jibs on our C-44 cutter and that was a very sweet rig-- a little complex to come about with less than three people aboard, but on an ocean run like out to Hawaii I don't think you'll be tacking round buoys all that often. This is an ideal cruising solution and basically what the H-37c was designed for. Also I would not expect the 37C on this run to be pokey. Given good trades you should make 150 miles a day easily. A double-135 rig will allow you to carry more than working sail and carry it longer than you would with some huge fair-weather sail, so as long as it's blowing at all I would expect you'd be moving. I would love to hear other views-- EMail if you choose. JC 2 JComet@aol.com
I don't think there's anything terribly wrong about sailing a 'Chevy' quality boat like a Hunter into open water. The key is how well the nitwit in charge of the adventure prepares his boat! (pilot error, pilot error, all together now...) It is encouraging to see so many optimistic remarks and though I agree you never hear much bad news about a boat from people who like it, look at the logic behind that coincidence. These people like the boat for a REASON. I agree with the idea that earlier boats are better built. After the debacle involving the H30 that went aground in San Diego, both my dad and Hunter got in gear with the layup specs and whatnot. I never heard to what industry standards they were adhering but I would casually say that some of these hulls were built for ramming and driving over rocks and withstanding gunfire (exaggerating a little but you get the idea!). Among boats of this size, price range and production volume you may look hard to find another so ruggedly made. Age is probably your biggest factor here (and did I mention the boat's age too?). The usual stuff will go wrong, typically anywhere things from different suppliers or of different materials are put together. Re-bed everything. Assume nothing. I have to make one comment about the rig itself. There's been talk on the HOW about the utility of the double-headsail rig-- some love it, some despise it, and many do not really understand it. Obviously one asset is the ease in handing sail-- bringing in one sail is a fast way to reduce sail fast. This WAS a boat intended for shorthanded sailing by people in their 50s. But on a trip like California to Hawaii this rig will demonstrate exactly what it's best for. Case in point: in 1970 Robin Lee Graham got a new boat for the last fifth of his world voyage, home from the BVI to LA. He got a 33-ft Allied Seawind CUTTER and flew two roller-furling headsails on two whisker poles and typically NO MAIN at all. After all it's all downwind going west. Even back then it got me on the idea that the best set-up for cruising is two roller-furling headsails, each about a 135 of the available J (usually the outer one is higher-cut on the foot. I think Graham's was not however). It's easier than handling huge, expensive special-purpose sails that are no good past 25 kts and take up space in the forepeak for the 75% of the time you don't use them. It also requires little helmsman brain power to keep them both pulling properly (compared to with a large lightweight assymmetrical). We had two loose-footed jibs on our C-44 cutter and that was a very sweet rig-- a little complex to come about with less than three people aboard, but on an ocean run like out to Hawaii I don't think you'll be tacking round buoys all that often. This is an ideal cruising solution and basically what the H-37c was designed for. Also I would not expect the 37C on this run to be pokey. Given good trades you should make 150 miles a day easily. A double-135 rig will allow you to carry more than working sail and carry it longer than you would with some huge fair-weather sail, so as long as it's blowing at all I would expect you'd be moving. I would love to hear other views-- EMail if you choose. JC 2 JComet@aol.com
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