I finished my ladder last year with a water based satin finish. (Target Coatings)When I got it back in the boat I realized I should have used the gloss finish instead. Now I have the correct, gloss, finish. Can I just sand lightly and recoat with the gloss or do I have to start all over and completly strip off all the old varnish first. Thanks.
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re : gloss finish over satin ???
Pat, You didn't mention whether the new finish is also water based. I don't know that it will make a difference, but I'd check with the manufacturer for compatibility with the old finish. Assuming compatible products, MHO is that gloss over satin would probably have a hazing effect. Very shiny surface that might tend to cloud the wood grain.
Pat, You didn't mention whether the new finish is also water based. I don't know that it will make a difference, but I'd check with the manufacturer for compatibility with the old finish. Assuming compatible products, MHO is that gloss over satin would probably have a hazing effect. Very shiny surface that might tend to cloud the wood grain.
yes , finish is water based too
It is the same company, Target. I can always call them up too. Like to hear from all the fellow boaters and their experiences. Thanks for the reply.
It is the same company, Target. I can always call them up too. Like to hear from all the fellow boaters and their experiences. Thanks for the reply.
Either way
Pat, it doesn't matter if you put semi-gloss or satin on after gloss or the reverse as you are suggesting. As long as it is the same base (oil, water, lacquer, etc.) then you can put one over the other. The key content difference of these types of finishes is the "reflectiveness". The gloss has more reflectively than the satin or semi-gloss, hence is reflects the light off it's surface and makes it more shiny. We used to own a furniture manufacturing company and we would put 3 to 4 coats of finish on our furniture to seal and build up a hard, durable finish. We used to put on several coats of what ever type of finish we had the most of and then put the final coat the one the customer wanted. The final coat determines the level of reflectiveness (shiny-ness) It's the last one that counts. Rich
Pat, it doesn't matter if you put semi-gloss or satin on after gloss or the reverse as you are suggesting. As long as it is the same base (oil, water, lacquer, etc.) then you can put one over the other. The key content difference of these types of finishes is the "reflectiveness". The gloss has more reflectively than the satin or semi-gloss, hence is reflects the light off it's surface and makes it more shiny. We used to own a furniture manufacturing company and we would put 3 to 4 coats of finish on our furniture to seal and build up a hard, durable finish. We used to put on several coats of what ever type of finish we had the most of and then put the final coat the one the customer wanted. The final coat determines the level of reflectiveness (shiny-ness) It's the last one that counts. Rich
IT DOES MATTER !!!
Pat, your statement.."When I got it back in the boat I realized I should have used the gloss finish instead". This statement leads me to believe that you want a clear finish over a pretty grained piece of wood. If that be the case, IT DOES MATTER!!! The key content difference of these types of finishes is the "clearity". Gloss finishes are clear, for the most part, other than a slight ambering in color, which in almost all cases is a desirable effect. Satin finishes, on the other hand, have microscopic particles suspended in them to reflect light in all different directions. This reduces reflectivity (shineyness), but unfortunately also hides what is underneath the particles, which is the grain of the wood. That is why, when someone puts on many coats of satin finish, the wood looks dead. By applying a gloss finish on top of the satin, you have increased the reflectivity of the light shining off of it, but only down to the layers of the satin finish. So, now you have a shiney finish over a partially hidden grain. This may be ok with you, its a personal choice. To do it correctly, one should build all of your layers of finish with a high gloss which allows an unobstructed view of the grain through a clear finish. Then, only the last coat should be a satin finish, which should slightly soften the shineyness. So, that means you will have to take it down to bare wood again to gain maximum effect. And there is a big difference. Todays products are far superior to what was available 30 years ago when it all looked like plastic. I used to have a custom woodworking business where we designed and built high-end office and residential furniture, and also refinished boats. Oh yea, one more thing. Even the cheap strippers will give you, nevermind. Let me start over. Even the furniture strippers that can be had locally are quite effective IF and ONLY IF, they are warm. No easy way to keep them warm at home, but in my shop, we had 'drum heaters'. Maybe if you store them in the sun somewhere. Artificially heating them may an probably will blow you up. Good luck Tony B
Pat, your statement.."When I got it back in the boat I realized I should have used the gloss finish instead". This statement leads me to believe that you want a clear finish over a pretty grained piece of wood. If that be the case, IT DOES MATTER!!! The key content difference of these types of finishes is the "clearity". Gloss finishes are clear, for the most part, other than a slight ambering in color, which in almost all cases is a desirable effect. Satin finishes, on the other hand, have microscopic particles suspended in them to reflect light in all different directions. This reduces reflectivity (shineyness), but unfortunately also hides what is underneath the particles, which is the grain of the wood. That is why, when someone puts on many coats of satin finish, the wood looks dead. By applying a gloss finish on top of the satin, you have increased the reflectivity of the light shining off of it, but only down to the layers of the satin finish. So, now you have a shiney finish over a partially hidden grain. This may be ok with you, its a personal choice. To do it correctly, one should build all of your layers of finish with a high gloss which allows an unobstructed view of the grain through a clear finish. Then, only the last coat should be a satin finish, which should slightly soften the shineyness. So, that means you will have to take it down to bare wood again to gain maximum effect. And there is a big difference. Todays products are far superior to what was available 30 years ago when it all looked like plastic. I used to have a custom woodworking business where we designed and built high-end office and residential furniture, and also refinished boats. Oh yea, one more thing. Even the cheap strippers will give you, nevermind. Let me start over. Even the furniture strippers that can be had locally are quite effective IF and ONLY IF, they are warm. No easy way to keep them warm at home, but in my shop, we had 'drum heaters'. Maybe if you store them in the sun somewhere. Artificially heating them may an probably will blow you up. Good luck Tony B
Post how the water based varnish works
Let us know how the water based varnish holds up. I have used a couple different brands of water based urethane finishes. They are great for indoor use where there isn't standing water, but the brands I tried would cloud if there was standing water -- condinsation from a drink glass, for example.
Let us know how the water based varnish holds up. I have used a couple different brands of water based urethane finishes. They are great for indoor use where there isn't standing water, but the brands I tried would cloud if there was standing water -- condinsation from a drink glass, for example.
Varnish vs Urethane vs Water based
I used a polyurethane (Helmsman) with a name like that how could I go wrong. One year later it is starting to blister and cloud. I read someplace that varnish is better. Covered my new tiller with varnish, we shall see. Used water based on my hardwood floors at home. I understand it is superior to everything else. One year later and they are still like new. I should try testing on a board and leave it on the boat. Between the water and the sun I'm beginning to think it is a never ending battle.
I used a polyurethane (Helmsman) with a name like that how could I go wrong. One year later it is starting to blister and cloud. I read someplace that varnish is better. Covered my new tiller with varnish, we shall see. Used water based on my hardwood floors at home. I understand it is superior to everything else. One year later and they are still like new. I should try testing on a board and leave it on the boat. Between the water and the sun I'm beginning to think it is a never ending battle.
Most varnish's are....
Most marine Varnish's today are a urethane varnish. But keep in mind that all the major chemical manufacturers have the same costs in manufacturing paints and varnish's. This is a case of where you literally get what you pay for. I'm not familiar with water based products, I only tried them once about 15 years ago and didnt like them. But as far as technology goes, that was a very long time ago and things change. But getting back to a quality varnish....Helmsman is NOT the way to go. I use Z-Spar or Scooner varnish and get right at 1 year out of them on the sunny and hot Gulf of Mexico, I tried Helmsman one time and barely made it through the summer. I think you should have to spend around $25 to $30 for a Qt. of a quality urethane varnish, unless of course, you enjoy varnishing a lot. And as caguy mentioned...it is a never ending battle.
Most marine Varnish's today are a urethane varnish. But keep in mind that all the major chemical manufacturers have the same costs in manufacturing paints and varnish's. This is a case of where you literally get what you pay for. I'm not familiar with water based products, I only tried them once about 15 years ago and didnt like them. But as far as technology goes, that was a very long time ago and things change. But getting back to a quality varnish....Helmsman is NOT the way to go. I use Z-Spar or Scooner varnish and get right at 1 year out of them on the sunny and hot Gulf of Mexico, I tried Helmsman one time and barely made it through the summer. I think you should have to spend around $25 to $30 for a Qt. of a quality urethane varnish, unless of course, you enjoy varnishing a lot. And as caguy mentioned...it is a never ending battle.
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