Getting Shorter

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Mar 4, 2004
347
Hunter 37.5 Orcas Island, WA
Our cruising plans include two months this summer on the West Coast of Vancouver Island and four months in the summer of 2005 up to Glacier Bay in Alaska. Both areas are well known for feisty winds. Forecasts being what they are, I figure we have a fairly high probability in getting caught out in some 35 plus knot winds at least for a few hours on more than one occasion. This has me looking at alternative sail configurations for getting shorter when the winds start to blow. My preliminary conclusions which include purchase of a Gale Sail and having a very deep third reef put in my main are as follows: 1. The nominal sail area of our H37.5 is 704 square feet with a 100% foretriangle. With our 130% genoa, I figure this comes out to 804 square feet which I'll call the base case. 2. A single reef in the main cuts this back to 742 or 92%. 3. Rolling the genoa down to 100% gets us down further to 642 or 80% 4. A second reef in the main further shrinks the sail area to 571 or 71% 5. Rolling up the genoa and replacing it with a 100 square foot Gale Sail drops us down to 341 or 42%. (There's certainly an intermediate position here, but I don't think much of the sail shape of a genoa furled down very far, particularly for upwind work.) 6. Puting a deep third reef in the main (25 foot luff, 10 foot foot ((that's not the same as a square foot!)) gets us down to 225 square feet or 28%. 7. Sailing with only a Gale Sail would take us down to 100 square feet or 12.5% Assuming that makes sense as an orderly regression in sail area, the next question becomes, just how much wind does that allow you to handle comfortably and still have enough power and control to claw off a lee shore and/or steer into and around waves? In his book Surviving the Storm, Steve Dashew suggests a model which he credits to yacht designer Angelo Lavaranos. Dashew says that for any given wind, the heeling force is a function of the square footage of sail up multiplied by the leverage arm which he defines as the height of the center of effort of the sails above the waterline plus 40% of the boat's draft. Assuming that's true, if you know the sail square footage and leverage arm that's comfortable for you at a lower wind speed, you can project how much (or little) sail you need up at higher wind speeds. On our boat we can handle 15 knots apparent comfortably with our full sail plan without dropping the traveller or easing the mainsheet. Beyond that the inclinometer reads more than 20 degrees and the Admiral begins to complain. Let's assume that the wind's force is one pound per square foot at 15 knots. (The absolute force number is unimportant, but the relative numbers are very important.) I calculate the height of the center of effort of our full sail plan at 23.5 feet above the water line to which we need to add 40% of our draft or two feet for a total of a 25.5 foot leverage arm. Multiplying this by the 804 square foot sail area and a wind force of one pound per square foot yields a heeling torque of 20512 foot pounds--a number with which we're comfortable. If the apparent wind doubles from 15 to 30 knots, the force of the wind increases as the square of the velocity increase from one pound per square foot to four pounds per square foot. To maintain the same heeling torque, the product of the sail area in square feet and the heeling arm have to be reduced by 75%. Sail configuration 5 above which is the double reefed main with a Gale Sail has a square footage of 341 with a lowered center of effort and reduced heeling arm of 18 feet. At four pounds per square foot wind force, this results in a heeling torque of 24552 or about 20% more than desired. If the model is right, we'd be easing the traveller and mainsheet at this sail configuration and wind speed or looking to scale down still further. At 45 knots the apparent wind has tripled compared to our base case so the wind's force has increased nine times to nine pounds per square foot. Our smallest sail configuration is the Gale Sail only with a sail area of one hundred square feet and a heeling arm of 13 feet. Total foot pounds of heeling torque with just the Gale Sail would be 11700 pounds well within our tolerance--we might even want to look at sailing with the triple reefed main, though that would involve dousing a hanked on jib on the foredeck in 45 knots of wind. In theory the gale sail configuration alone should handle 60 knots--I don't want to try it in practice. I'll freely admit to being "over the top" in analyzing this. Sorry, that's just me. Would like some input on a couple of issues: 1. Do you think the Dashew model has validity? 2. From a pragmatic standpoint do the sail reduction options make sense up to apparent wind velocities of 45 knots or so? Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust H37.5
 
B

Bill O'Donovan

Experience counts

You'll know exactly how much to reef, especially if you err on the side of caution. What's the point of going an extra knot faster if it exhausts you? Don't put too much stock in the percentage of sail up. As you know, wind effects are much greater than their mathematical ratio. That's why a Category 4 hurricane is three times as bad as a 3.
 
Sep 24, 1999
1,511
Hunter H46LE Sausalito
the jib option

If there's a fault in your sail combinations, it's that you have to go from a #2 genoa to a #5 gale sale, with nothing in between, which necessitates a third reef point in the main. I've recently acquired a very flat 95% jib for use on my H410 to use in summer conditions here on the bay when winds in excess of 25 knots are common. It gives me the ability to point through 85-degree tacks in high winds, and to balance the helm upwind at the lower end of the gale range where I'd normally have to put the headsail away and proceed under reefed main and engine. It also makes tacking in a strong wind a joy, because the sail doesn't make contact with the mast as the bow comes through the wind. I can be in very strong winds, tacking with the autopilot, and still not have to use a winch handle. My guess is that you'd find a sail such as this to be far more useful than a gale sail, because this is a sail you'd use on a regular basis during your trip.
 
Sep 24, 1999
1,511
Hunter H46LE Sausalito
something wrong with formula

It just occurred to me that it doesn't make sense to add 40% of the boat's draft to the leverage arm in this formula. What this would mean is that a shallow-draft version of my hull would theoretically be able to carry more sail comfortably than the deep-draft version. But in reality the opposite is true. Shouldn't the boats draft SUBTRACT from the height of the boat's center of effort? Would make more sense to me.
 
T

Terry Cox, Hunter 42, Belle-Vie

Gary, another consideration is whether you...

can rig your boat with a staysail. Our P42 has a staysail option that I would install just for those situations you describe. A full sail plan on our boat sailing close hauled can support 23 knots of apparent before reefing, but we're over to about 35 degrees. Like you my admiral gets very nervous in those conditions inspite of my assurances. If you have the cutter option I would consider that for my heavy weather sail conditions. Which type of furler do you have on your boat, single or double line? Ours has the double line furling drum and when I reef the genoa under stronger winds will spin (unwind) on the drum sheet unless I lock it. Terry
 
Mar 4, 2004
347
Hunter 37.5 Orcas Island, WA
Thanks, John ...

...for the idea on the jib. I have a 100% working jib on my 335 which I still own. I times J on the 335 is 70% of the same dimensions on the 375. I was thinking the working jib would be too small on the 375 but it might fill a good niche. Regards the formula, I don't think Dashew is talking about sail carrying capacity. I think he's just talking about heeling torque, and is suggesting that the rotation point is not at the waterline but is at a point 40% down the keel. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust H375
 
Mar 4, 2004
347
Hunter 37.5 Orcas Island, WA
Thanks, Terry

I think having a removeable inner forestay would be a wonderful place to hank on a small jib or a staysail in heavy air. I'm concerned that the foredeck of my 375 was not designed to handle the stress. Did your P42 come with the inner forestay or did you add it? Did you do anything to reinforce the deck at the point of attachment? Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust H375
 
S

scott wilson

Gary, no matter your rig

if you get "caught" in 35 knts for a few hours out on the Westside, the chance of a 2005 trip is going to be greatly reduced. I assume your enjoyment is dependent on that of your mate. Plan for lay days and beach walks. No math involved. Scott
 
C

Clyde

Answers to your questions

Here is my opinion on your questions, not be confused as being the correct answers. 1) Do you think the Dashew model has validity? No, it's too simple. Heeling is based on both the aerodynamics and hydrodynamics of a sailboat. A Velocity Prediction Program (VPP), which is based on mathematically modeling a sailboat's aerodynamic and hydrodynamic characteristics, is used to generate a polar diagram of a sailboat based on the above waterline structural area, the sailboat's sail plan, and the below waterline hull configuration. It can also predict heeling base on wind direction, sail area and hull area. There is an online aerodynamics portion of a VPP where you can plug in your sail plan, wind speed and direction to obtain forces, moment and heeling angle. This is a partial VPP with only the aerodynamic sail plan portion, it does not include the structural area above the waterline affecting the aerodynamics and the below the water line hydrodynamics, the heeling angle is less than the real world value, but it gets you in the "Ball Park". 2) From a pragmatic standpoint do the sail reduction options make sense up to apparent wind velocities of 45 knots or so? Yes, if you are going to sail in an area with the possibility of high winds and a "Lee Shore", you should take every precaution and not depend on just your motor to get you out of trouble. There is a good article called "Trimming Storm Sails: Changing Down For Heavy Weather" about sailing in bad weather. The Offshore Racing Council regulations for offshore race boats dictates the following MAXIMUM area for storm sails: storm jib- I*I*.05 (I is the height of the foretriangle, or headsail hoist, from the deck); storm trysail- P*E*.175 (P is the mainsail hoist, E is the boom length). The third reef in the mainsail reduces the luff by at least 40% for racing. For a cruiser, it can be 40 - 50%, you should consult with your local sail loft. If you are preparing to sail in bad weather, you should also carry a Jordan series drogue for a sea anchor and a Gale Rider drogue for sailing in a following sea under storm conditions. It sounds like a fun adventure! Fair Winds, Clyde "Trimming Storm Sails: Changing Down For Heavy Weather" http://www.bwsailing.com/PDFs/Sail%20trim_bws%20ja99.pdf International Sailing Federation Category 2 Monohulls Offshore Special Regulation http://www.sailing.org/offshore/2004/2004Mo2.pdf SailPowerCalc http://www.wb-sails.fi/news/SailPowerCalc/SailPowerCalc.htm#SailPowerCalc
 
T

Terry Cox, Hunter 42, Belle-Vie

Gary, Hunter Marine can tell you whether your...

boat can handle a staysail and where to mount the hardware. I've not added one to ours yet. The P42 is mast head rigged and came with a staysail sheave about where a fractional boat is rigged. The deck mount requires a chain plate bracket bolted to the chain locker aft bulkhead according to a Hunter Marine installation diagram. I talked to Karen Thorndike at length about her solo circumnavigation sail plan on her 36 foot cutter Amelia. She experienced some pretty heavy weather in the southern oceans and it was her staysail storm jib that got her through the really rough stuff. Terry
 
Jul 1, 1998
3,062
Hunter Legend 35 Poulsbo/Semiahmoo WA
I'd Prefer the Storm Trysail and Innerstay

Gary - for sailing with less sail area, if it were me, I'd really prefer going with two reefs in the main and a storm trysail and an innerstay with a storm jib. To support the third reef in the main I think the sail cloth would need to be heavier than the OEM weight, and, when the third reef is installed it will kinda mess up the sail a bit. Then there is the problem in getting the sail to set properly and flat with the third reef point. Going the trysail route you can have a nice flat sail. With regard to the jib, a reefed jib or a storm jib, 70 percent, doesn't provide a good slot effect because it's so far forward and messes up the helm somewhat due to the center of effort. The best solution is an inner stay with the 70 percent jib because it moves the center of effort of the jib further aft and you get a better slot effect. How the innerstay gets installed is with an anchor point on the deck but with a connection underneath that goes to the hull and has a structural connection of some type. The below-deck portion could be removable, in your case, say using a turnbuckle, to avoid problems with the V-berth. A pair of running backs would be likely be needed to counter the innerstay but that shouldn't be a problem except for learning how to use them. If you can go with it, I think the staysail with an innerstay setup would provide the best solution for a well-balanced rig that is very easy to control in higher winds. At least, if it were me, that would be my first choice.
 
Mar 8, 2004
60
- - St. Pete, FL USA
Gary, a couple of follow-up thoughts...

There's already a lot of 'answers' being provided; hopefully this won't muddy the water. Dashew is using a short-hand for metacentric height with his 40% figure, I believe...but I think it misleads you as the 'practical' issue would seem to be what sail combination for a given wind strength will allow you to sail effectively, not just avoid heeling too much. Some of your higher wind/small sail area combinations aren't going to work well (see below) and I'm not even sure you'd like to be using a 135 reefed down to 100% for a few hours. I also agree that you've got a practical gap in the sail choices at about that point). Adding a 3rd reef in the main will have at least three negative consequences: 1) it will push the CE further forward (made even worse by using a Gale Sail, which puts the foresail's CE as far forward - and regrettably, also higher up - as possible for a foresail), the combined effect being to create lee helm and preventing you from pointing; 2) if used, the 3rd reef is going to have you abusing the mainsail, which is not built to serve as a storm sail; and 3) having the hardware for tucking in a 3rd reef will certainly encumber the sail (and boom) for the normal conditions you'll see. I agree with several of the other comments that an inner stay is a much more seaworthy option. It brings the foresail's CE in and down as you reef down, avoids some/all of the lee helm problem (depending...), and it keeps you closer to the mast when setting things up vs. out there on the bow. Etienne (the founder of ATN and 'inventor' of the Gale Sail) looked to be in very good shape when he told me setting that sail in a blow is a good workout. Let's face it: the Gale Sail's main selling feature is that it is a simple answer to a common dilemma (rigging a storm sail on a boat with a furled headsail); simple answers aren't too often optimum choices to complex puzzles. An inner stay can either be rigged as a conventional staysail stay, which seems to be the common choice in N America and which is a more complicated method (you need offsetting tension from intermediate afters or running backs, staysail tracks and blocks closer to the centerline of the boat) or you can consider a masthead-mounted Solent Stay (frequently found in Europe, where we're cruising at the moment, and discussed in Brion Toss' website - search the archives at www.briontoss.com; this uses the backstay for offsetting tension and usually can work with the existing genoa tracks but probably with a dedicated set of sheet blocks). The deck-level installation would be the same, must be well engineered, and seeking factory advice would be a good idea. We installed a Solent Stay (removeable and tensioned down between the forward lower and upper on the sidedeck when not in use) and found that using an inner stay in a blow is a bit of a revelation; it's easy on the boat & crew. Also, keep in mind that a dedicated staysail/solent sail can be further reefed down much like you reef a mainsail, if you provide it with the necessary cringles. The downside of course is that an inner stay takes time to design and 'build' (you'll likely be having your own parts made at a local metal shop) and there's some expense involved. (I estimate it cost us $700 USD for our Solent Stay, including all the custom built hardware, sheets, blocks & halyard; we modified an existing #2 hank-on jib not unlike what you have from a previous boat, which cost another $75). The deck-level attachment point was actually 3 individual stainless fittings: deck mount (to which I added a store-bought toggle, ABI release lever, and stay), under-deck angled fitting that butted up against the underside of the deck and the anchor locker bulkhead, and a backing plate on the forward side of the anchor locker bulkhead (which I reinforced with some biax). 8 x 5/16" bolts were used and the angled fitting was also mounted in an epoxy/high density filler since the underside of the deck was other than a flat, uniform surface. (Our WHOOSH is a 42' 11 ton Pearson 424). This is an interesting discussion and I'm sorry I won't be able to follow it further. (We unplug today to leave London for the Baltic this season). Good luck on your project. And if I can add one final thought, don't overlook that your eventual choice won't just be used on your summer cruise but will serve the boat for the rest of its life...so try to opt for the solution you think would serve you and the boat in full measure. Jack
 
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