The admiral and I went out sailing on a lake this weekend with very good winds (15 knots gusting to 25) but lousy weather (rain, reduced visibility, cool). We just got the boat (26’ Chrysler) last fall after not having one all of our married lives (20 years). After a summer of poor wind and too hot temperatures I was excited to actually have a day with good wind and would have gone sailing if it were in the 30s (it was in the low 60s). After about 30 minutes she let me know she was uncomfortable with the conditions, stability of the boat, gusty winds, rain, and wanted to return to the slip, i.e. she was scared (actually she was very uncertain with the conditions before we left the slip, and told me so). I have sailed in much worse and on much smaller boats, but her experience is limited and long ago (10 years +). I tried to talk her into staying, even reefing the main to try and reduce the heeling of the boat, but not wanting to sour her on the whole sailing experience I soon relented and returned. She is a good mate and handled her portion of the docking procedures and boat decommissioning chores easily and without complaint, even in the rain. If it where one of my sons, I would have laughed and put on more sail. I would have let them work through their fear on the boat and let them see that the boat and they could handle the situation. But this was the Admiral. The last thing I want to do is to have her scared of going out in the boat. Did I do the right thing in returning? If the weather was clear and the visibility good she probably would not have been as nervous. Do I wait to get her use to the action of this particular boat in fair weather before I try it again in rain, or do I plow on as I would with one of my sons, and let her find out that she and the boat can handle the conditions? I invite opinions, especially from those of the female persuasion, please.
Getting Her use to sailing
- Thread starter Windwalker
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You did the right thing returning
you did the wrong thing even going out with her in those conditions. There are many who post here that sail single handed. I think that if you don't resolve to take her out in five to ten, with blue skies, and warm air until she gets some experience. you too will become a single hander.
you did the wrong thing even going out with her in those conditions. There are many who post here that sail single handed. I think that if you don't resolve to take her out in five to ten, with blue skies, and warm air until she gets some experience. you too will become a single hander.
sailing with the admiral
I can relate to your position and situation. My wife (the admiral) had no sailing experience prior to us buying our Oday 23 in 2003. I restored the boat and we sailed her for two years. To ease my wife into sailing, I never took her out on days where the wind exceeded 12-15 knots. As time went on and as we gained experience on the water, we sailed in much different conditions. I'd highly recommend that even though you may have the experience of sailing in rougher conditions, take her out on days where the wind, waves and weather are mild to only slighty moderate. It'll allow her to learn without pressure and of course, her own comfort. My wife is still learning, but her confidence and feel for how the waves feel, boat reaction and movement, that even when we got caught in a terrible squall on the Bay of Green Bay with 6-8' waves, driving rain and winds gusting up to 45+knots, she was in the cabin, calm and collected riding out the storm as I was heading us back home. After ensuring I take her out sailing for two years in the most mild-to-moderate windy conditions, she's the one that suggested a bigger boat!! so we sold our 23' and bought an Oday 27'. Treat the admiral right..she'll treat you right! Good luck!! Mark
I can relate to your position and situation. My wife (the admiral) had no sailing experience prior to us buying our Oday 23 in 2003. I restored the boat and we sailed her for two years. To ease my wife into sailing, I never took her out on days where the wind exceeded 12-15 knots. As time went on and as we gained experience on the water, we sailed in much different conditions. I'd highly recommend that even though you may have the experience of sailing in rougher conditions, take her out on days where the wind, waves and weather are mild to only slighty moderate. It'll allow her to learn without pressure and of course, her own comfort. My wife is still learning, but her confidence and feel for how the waves feel, boat reaction and movement, that even when we got caught in a terrible squall on the Bay of Green Bay with 6-8' waves, driving rain and winds gusting up to 45+knots, she was in the cabin, calm and collected riding out the storm as I was heading us back home. After ensuring I take her out sailing for two years in the most mild-to-moderate windy conditions, she's the one that suggested a bigger boat!! so we sold our 23' and bought an Oday 27'. Treat the admiral right..she'll treat you right! Good luck!! Mark
Returning is the correct decision
Since the two of you have had limited exposure to your boat and the if the weather description is reasonably accurate, you made the correct decision. Heck, by your description, I would not only have requested coming back, but also would not have gone out in the first place. It is one thing if the weather pipes up after you are sailing, but another to venture out in lousy conditions. FWIW
Since the two of you have had limited exposure to your boat and the if the weather description is reasonably accurate, you made the correct decision. Heck, by your description, I would not only have requested coming back, but also would not have gone out in the first place. It is one thing if the weather pipes up after you are sailing, but another to venture out in lousy conditions. FWIW
Have fun!
I'm the sailor in my family - husband and daughter come along to please me mostly. But rain, cold and blowing are not my idea of a good time. It's not that I'm scared or afraid the boat won't handle it; It's just not fun. If you start out in pleasant weather and get caught when it turns sour, or if you participate in a scheduled race in those conditions, that's one thing, but choosing to go out in it for pleasure is another. I would say that if you want your wife to enjoy sailing with you, you should definitely pick better conditions. If she becomes as die hard a sailor as you are in the future, then you can both choose to go out in those conditions. I've fished with my husband both on lakes and offshore in some horrible conditions - but I made an informed decision to participate, knowing what I was facing before we left the dock. But I would say generally if she associates sailing with being miserable or thinks of it as some sort of macho survival contest, she probably won't want to sail much. As for the fear issue, I would try talking with her about the boat and its capabilities over a nice land based dinner. Let her know that you support her and won't force her into conditions/situations she's not comfortable with. Share with her that you would like for her to learn at her own pace and comfort level. Then do what you say. And remember it's supposed to be fun
Tell her we're proud of her for her great attitude while docking and decommissioning in the rain! Fair winds.
I'm the sailor in my family - husband and daughter come along to please me mostly. But rain, cold and blowing are not my idea of a good time. It's not that I'm scared or afraid the boat won't handle it; It's just not fun. If you start out in pleasant weather and get caught when it turns sour, or if you participate in a scheduled race in those conditions, that's one thing, but choosing to go out in it for pleasure is another. I would say that if you want your wife to enjoy sailing with you, you should definitely pick better conditions. If she becomes as die hard a sailor as you are in the future, then you can both choose to go out in those conditions. I've fished with my husband both on lakes and offshore in some horrible conditions - but I made an informed decision to participate, knowing what I was facing before we left the dock. But I would say generally if she associates sailing with being miserable or thinks of it as some sort of macho survival contest, she probably won't want to sail much. As for the fear issue, I would try talking with her about the boat and its capabilities over a nice land based dinner. Let her know that you support her and won't force her into conditions/situations she's not comfortable with. Share with her that you would like for her to learn at her own pace and comfort level. Then do what you say. And remember it's supposed to be fun
Tell her we're proud of her for her great attitude while docking and decommissioning in the rain! Fair winds.Read
Go pick yourself up a copy of "Changing Course". It's a book about going to being a full time cruiser and you may not think it relative and not all chapters apply, but it was written by a social worker/marrage counselor. After reading it you'll wonder why she isn't filing for divorce. You're going to want her to want to go, not go because you want her to. Make EVERY outing enjoyable for her and she'll look forward to going. Kind of ironic, you finally get your boat and have to think even MORE of her needs. If she says it's, too windy, too still, too sunny, whatever, agree wholeheartedly and go in. She is your partner not your kid. Play it right and SHE'll want a bigger better boat to spend more time on!
Go pick yourself up a copy of "Changing Course". It's a book about going to being a full time cruiser and you may not think it relative and not all chapters apply, but it was written by a social worker/marrage counselor. After reading it you'll wonder why she isn't filing for divorce. You're going to want her to want to go, not go because you want her to. Make EVERY outing enjoyable for her and she'll look forward to going. Kind of ironic, you finally get your boat and have to think even MORE of her needs. If she says it's, too windy, too still, too sunny, whatever, agree wholeheartedly and go in. She is your partner not your kid. Play it right and SHE'll want a bigger better boat to spend more time on!
Everyone is different......
Married for 21 years. When we first started sailing she would feel uncomfortable under those conditions and probably head back. Now, she always looking for the perfect storm... she tells me it is a great way of getting experience. I think she gets an adrenaline high and she likes to live to tell about it. I am lucky she likes sailing...it wans't always like that. abe
Married for 21 years. When we first started sailing she would feel uncomfortable under those conditions and probably head back. Now, she always looking for the perfect storm... she tells me it is a great way of getting experience. I think she gets an adrenaline high and she likes to live to tell about it. I am lucky she likes sailing...it wans't always like that. abe
You have to balance out the situation
get her a new nicer boat. Let her pick it out. Bigger boats don't tilt the same as smaller boats so your wife should be more comfortable.
get her a new nicer boat. Let her pick it out. Bigger boats don't tilt the same as smaller boats so your wife should be more comfortable.
You done good...
If you want her to remain a sailing companion, then she has to know that if she is not having fun, the boat heads back in. Of course you have explained that all monohull sailboats are made to heel, and that they actually become more stable the farther they heel because the ballast is trying to get closer to the center of the earth and the wind is losing leverage on the sails. But your Chrysler is a relatively tender boat for its length and you can expect it to heel more than a lot of others in a brisk wind (see photo). It is made to do that and can handle it. But check the swing keel cable and pin - the sooner the better. They are potential weak links if they are not in good shape.
If you want her to remain a sailing companion, then she has to know that if she is not having fun, the boat heads back in. Of course you have explained that all monohull sailboats are made to heel, and that they actually become more stable the farther they heel because the ballast is trying to get closer to the center of the earth and the wind is losing leverage on the sails. But your Chrysler is a relatively tender boat for its length and you can expect it to heel more than a lot of others in a brisk wind (see photo). It is made to do that and can handle it. But check the swing keel cable and pin - the sooner the better. They are potential weak links if they are not in good shape.
One female's opinion
May I suggest sailing lessons, for both of you together. If she has an idea of exactly what's going on, and knows exactly what you're saying when you start spouting those nautical terms, she'll be much more comfortable. My boyfriend (a more experienced sailor) and I took a five day liveaboard class last spring in SW Florida. Not only was it a great vacation (March in Florida rather than Maryland is a great vacation in itself) but it was alot of fun and we were learning and doing something TOGETHER. As it is, it sounds like *you* are sailing and she's a passenger along for the ride. If she's involved she'll enjoy it much more. Meanwhile, no more sailing in nasty weather. Being cold and wet is just no fun. After all, we are the fairer sex.
May I suggest sailing lessons, for both of you together. If she has an idea of exactly what's going on, and knows exactly what you're saying when you start spouting those nautical terms, she'll be much more comfortable. My boyfriend (a more experienced sailor) and I took a five day liveaboard class last spring in SW Florida. Not only was it a great vacation (March in Florida rather than Maryland is a great vacation in itself) but it was alot of fun and we were learning and doing something TOGETHER. As it is, it sounds like *you* are sailing and she's a passenger along for the ride. If she's involved she'll enjoy it much more. Meanwhile, no more sailing in nasty weather. Being cold and wet is just no fun. After all, we are the fairer sex.
let me see if I've got this right...
...tender boat, gusty winds, "lousy" weather, inexperienced crew, unreefed main. Maybe, just maybe, the admiral had more smarts than the captain. Coming from a community property state, I try always to remember that the wife owns as much of the boat as I own.
...tender boat, gusty winds, "lousy" weather, inexperienced crew, unreefed main. Maybe, just maybe, the admiral had more smarts than the captain. Coming from a community property state, I try always to remember that the wife owns as much of the boat as I own.
temps a key
if it's a 100 and it's raining and mod high winds, no big deal, but the low temps make people get tight...and therefore, it makes things a lot worse then they are. Add rain and you got a big problem (although rain can be combatted with rain gear). Normally I would say give her awesome sex after each sail and you will have her hooked (women associate things with feelings) but fear outways pleasure any day. Do what you can to reduce the fear gradually and MAYBE soon she will realize the true risk factor (very little). 15: heavy boat...just starting...light boat...just about perfect. 25: heavy boat...just a tad more then perfect....light boat...starting to get scary...ok...scary for some (known some to get scared taking the boat to the pumpout station under motor in very protected waters). In-experienced woman in 25 knots with small light boat = scared shitless woman who will get back at you later.
if it's a 100 and it's raining and mod high winds, no big deal, but the low temps make people get tight...and therefore, it makes things a lot worse then they are. Add rain and you got a big problem (although rain can be combatted with rain gear). Normally I would say give her awesome sex after each sail and you will have her hooked (women associate things with feelings) but fear outways pleasure any day. Do what you can to reduce the fear gradually and MAYBE soon she will realize the true risk factor (very little). 15: heavy boat...just starting...light boat...just about perfect. 25: heavy boat...just a tad more then perfect....light boat...starting to get scary...ok...scary for some (known some to get scared taking the boat to the pumpout station under motor in very protected waters). In-experienced woman in 25 knots with small light boat = scared shitless woman who will get back at you later.
Give her the helm
My wife doesn't start grinning until we've got water over the gun'l. I'm trying to explain to her that it isn't the best trim-oh well. Seriously, I took her out in some decent weather and then a blow. First time out, I got her on the tiller. Every time after, I'd find an excuse for her being on the helm. I knew when we rounded that headland that we were gonna get set right over on our beam ends. A lotta, "what do I do"s. A few calmly given directions on what to do if she felt we were going over, worked fine. Mostly, she just played the helm and rounded up when necessary. But her comfort level went up greatly because she was controlling things appropriate to her level of anxiety. Give her as much control as you can-that's the confidence booster. I don't get up on the foredeck much, in weather, she says I'm a klutz and will probably go overboard. I think that she's lording over me the fact that she has a lower center of gravity. Come to think of it, she has a higher center of bouyancy too! I think I'll log off and go do some stability tests with her. Guy
My wife doesn't start grinning until we've got water over the gun'l. I'm trying to explain to her that it isn't the best trim-oh well. Seriously, I took her out in some decent weather and then a blow. First time out, I got her on the tiller. Every time after, I'd find an excuse for her being on the helm. I knew when we rounded that headland that we were gonna get set right over on our beam ends. A lotta, "what do I do"s. A few calmly given directions on what to do if she felt we were going over, worked fine. Mostly, she just played the helm and rounded up when necessary. But her comfort level went up greatly because she was controlling things appropriate to her level of anxiety. Give her as much control as you can-that's the confidence booster. I don't get up on the foredeck much, in weather, she says I'm a klutz and will probably go overboard. I think that she's lording over me the fact that she has a lower center of gravity. Come to think of it, she has a higher center of bouyancy too! I think I'll log off and go do some stability tests with her. Guy
My wife is not by her words an intrepid
sailor. We have discussed this thread and have a simple test, If you wouldn't work in the back yard because of the weather we don't go sailing. If the weather turns stinky while we are out then we do what we must.
sailor. We have discussed this thread and have a simple test, If you wouldn't work in the back yard because of the weather we don't go sailing. If the weather turns stinky while we are out then we do what we must.
I completely agree with Kathy. Sailing class!
If you're wife is interested then a basic sailing class would be a wonderful way for her to understand the forces at work. Maybe together as a weekend getaway or maybe separately so she feels free to ask questions without your judgement (it depends on her personality). Also, even though she may logically know that the boat won't go over (righting forces & all that) it can still be uncomfortable on a tender boat - especially in gusty conditions. The mind doesn't necessarily go with the logical explanation when a gust hits & the boat goes from 10 degrees to 25 degrees of heel in a second. It sounds like your wife wants to sail with you. Don't spoil it by going macho - you absolutely did the right thing by going in. Do you want to have OUR boat or MY boat? (As a side note, I probably would not have gone out on our Catalina 250 in 15 knots gusting to 25 unless I was looking for adventure & excitement - that's a wild ride in a small boat. )
If you're wife is interested then a basic sailing class would be a wonderful way for her to understand the forces at work. Maybe together as a weekend getaway or maybe separately so she feels free to ask questions without your judgement (it depends on her personality). Also, even though she may logically know that the boat won't go over (righting forces & all that) it can still be uncomfortable on a tender boat - especially in gusty conditions. The mind doesn't necessarily go with the logical explanation when a gust hits & the boat goes from 10 degrees to 25 degrees of heel in a second. It sounds like your wife wants to sail with you. Don't spoil it by going macho - you absolutely did the right thing by going in. Do you want to have OUR boat or MY boat? (As a side note, I probably would not have gone out on our Catalina 250 in 15 knots gusting to 25 unless I was looking for adventure & excitement - that's a wild ride in a small boat. )
Thanks!
Thank you all for your input! Just a few more notes to let you know I’m not just a macho jerk, just a sailing fool. The forecast said clearing and it did clear, several hours later. The Chrysler is a heavy boat for its size, 5000 lbs displacement. It doesn’t get up and dance until the wind is at least 10 to 15 knots. The motion is very stable with the exception of the heeling. The admiral has had formal sailing lessons in Puget Sound, enough that she was a capable sailor and had the right to rent boats at the sailing club. We have sailed together several times on rented and borrowed boats. The last was a problem. We were in a light air boat, a San Juan 24, in forecast winds of 15 knots, with actual winds of 35 knots once we were in the sound proper, and no working jib in the sail bag, just a 150 and 135 Genoa (it was the last time I rented a boat without checking ALL of the sails at the dock, lesson learned). She was pregnant with our youngest. We had motored to Port Townsend the night before in the dark without sails. We made the best of it limping back on a reefed main only. That was 19 years ago. The only sailing we had done together since was occasional day trips with friends in Atlanta on the boat we ended up buying last year. About once or twice every two years. I have done more sailing solo in small boats (sunfish, laser), but those occasional outings where it for her until this spring. She was the one who suggested we buy this boat (gotta love her!). Our outings this year were in 5 to 10 knot winds and often 90+ degrees, and she is from Irish stock, susceptible to sunburn. In our outing this time she had the tiller for over half the time. She handled it well. I think some of the fear was flashback from the Puget Sound trip, the weather was very Seattleish. I think it was a case of too much too soon and too much like the Puget Sound trip. Thanks to you all and I will ease her into more “robust” sailing gradually.
Thank you all for your input! Just a few more notes to let you know I’m not just a macho jerk, just a sailing fool. The forecast said clearing and it did clear, several hours later. The Chrysler is a heavy boat for its size, 5000 lbs displacement. It doesn’t get up and dance until the wind is at least 10 to 15 knots. The motion is very stable with the exception of the heeling. The admiral has had formal sailing lessons in Puget Sound, enough that she was a capable sailor and had the right to rent boats at the sailing club. We have sailed together several times on rented and borrowed boats. The last was a problem. We were in a light air boat, a San Juan 24, in forecast winds of 15 knots, with actual winds of 35 knots once we were in the sound proper, and no working jib in the sail bag, just a 150 and 135 Genoa (it was the last time I rented a boat without checking ALL of the sails at the dock, lesson learned). She was pregnant with our youngest. We had motored to Port Townsend the night before in the dark without sails. We made the best of it limping back on a reefed main only. That was 19 years ago. The only sailing we had done together since was occasional day trips with friends in Atlanta on the boat we ended up buying last year. About once or twice every two years. I have done more sailing solo in small boats (sunfish, laser), but those occasional outings where it for her until this spring. She was the one who suggested we buy this boat (gotta love her!). Our outings this year were in 5 to 10 knot winds and often 90+ degrees, and she is from Irish stock, susceptible to sunburn. In our outing this time she had the tiller for over half the time. She handled it well. I think some of the fear was flashback from the Puget Sound trip, the weather was very Seattleish. I think it was a case of too much too soon and too much like the Puget Sound trip. Thanks to you all and I will ease her into more “robust” sailing gradually.
What’s gender got to do with it?
I don’t understand your comment about how you’d handle the fears of your sons. Why take the risk of ruining sailing forever for one of them based on gender? Thanks, Paul s/v Pretty Lady
I don’t understand your comment about how you’d handle the fears of your sons. Why take the risk of ruining sailing forever for one of them based on gender? Thanks, Paul s/v Pretty Lady
familiarity breeds security
I think you did the right thing go back to shore. To me the solution is a walk before you run solution. Take your wife out only on "good" days, even if there is no wind, motor somewhere - anywhere, just so your wife becomes familiar with the feel of the boat in the water. After many trips in the boat, she'll feel more up to the challenge, will have more a feeling for the boat, and more faith in you. Let her "man" the helm at least 50% as you will want her competent for both sailing and motoring the boat; the reason - Man Over Board. Develop other crew you can take out who aren't as nervous as her and take these on the more "adventurous" sails. The slow but sure plan may sound a bit "lengthly" but it will be better than a nervous spouse declaring she won't ever sail again.
I think you did the right thing go back to shore. To me the solution is a walk before you run solution. Take your wife out only on "good" days, even if there is no wind, motor somewhere - anywhere, just so your wife becomes familiar with the feel of the boat in the water. After many trips in the boat, she'll feel more up to the challenge, will have more a feeling for the boat, and more faith in you. Let her "man" the helm at least 50% as you will want her competent for both sailing and motoring the boat; the reason - Man Over Board. Develop other crew you can take out who aren't as nervous as her and take these on the more "adventurous" sails. The slow but sure plan may sound a bit "lengthly" but it will be better than a nervous spouse declaring she won't ever sail again.
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