Genoa Tracks

[Dream Weaver II]

I know that this has been extensively discussed in the past, however. I am in the process of getting a new 150 genoa and furler. Has anyone just used a stand-up block as a turning point to the winch for the sheets and a twing to control sheet angle?? It seems that this is what racers do as it affords more precise adjustment, less holes to drill and cheaper, as we are all on a budget.
I would appreciate any pros and cons.

 

[Jackdaw]

A twing allows you to gain extra control of a sheet in one dimension; usually in or out. That means that you still need a genoa track to adjust sheet angle. If you try and use just one to control forward & back like a track; the twing position will fall in and out, destroying your sail shape.

SOME racy boats (like the Pogo 12.50 shown) use a systems of TWO twings to hold the ring in place in 3 dimensions. This is possible on any boat; but would take some figuring to place the hardware correctly.

 

[MrBill_FLL]

I like these ideas
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h169/ftldiver2/MACGREGOR/1224376802.jpg

i've also used a barberhauler on the jib.

 

[Chris & Lenore]

If you have a mid-cockpit stanchion you can sheet back to a turning block attached to the stanchion base - then forward to the cabin top winch's.
Then use a barber hauler with two lines to control both "in"and "down" at any point along the sheet.
Only requires two blocks and it's like having an 8 foot long track. Nothing can beat the cost, range of adjustment or simplicity.

Chris

 

[Dream Weaver II]

Thanks Holdek, this is what i was hoping to here. From everything I have read, it seems that a twing moves the sheet vertically and a barber hauler moves it horizontally. I could be wrong.

 

[Doc_holiday]

SOME racy boats (like the Pogo 12.50 shown) use a systems of TWO twings to hold the ring in place in 3 dimensions. This is possible on any boat; but would take some figuring to place the hardware correctly.

It would seem to me, one could just get close and the adjustments would make up for the error. That is a neat set up! Would need to hire an actuary to keep track of all the lines on the deck though. Haha

 

[Jackdaw]

It would seem to me, one could just get close and the adjustments would make up for the error. That is a neat set up! Would need to hire an actuary to keep track of all the lines on the deck though. Haha

In many cases it ends up being the same amount of control lines.. A good genoa track system has a way to remotely move the car position under load. That takes a control line. Add the barber-hauler and you are back at two on each side.

 

[vizwhiz]

So is much adjustment needed when flying the full sail, or usually only when partially furled?
And do you find that it normally needs to be adjusted "in/out" much, or mostly just "down"?
I have no track at this point, only fairleads.
Do you have dedicated cleats for the extra lines (like the barber haul), or just find a place to tie them off?

 

[Dream Weaver II]

On our Macgregor's, the genoa will always be outside the shrouds unless you want two sets of sheets or are willing to move them inside the shrouds when you reef. I doubt most people will do this.
So the only requirement is that you have a block slightly aft of the ideal position when the Genoa is fully deployed, this way the twing will only be active to raise and lower the sheet. As far as horizontally there is no adjustment as with Genoa cars. Having a place to cleat or tie off the twing is essential. If you are upgrading to a larger Genoa, your existing fairleads won't be of much use. Using a twing this way saves putting a lot of holes in the boat for the track and money. This is the way I am going to go as soon as the warm weather gets here. P.S. I am no expert, so read lots on the subject and get informed.

Steve

 

[Jackdaw]

Just watch how much your twing turns the sheet. At 60 degrees, the load on the twing equals the load on the sheet. From that point it grows and can reach 2x. The hardware and mounting point need to be strong.

 

[Dream Weaver II]

Jackdaw; Excuse my ignorance but what 60 degrees are we talking about ? I do realize the any attach point needs to be well re-inforced and able to take the load. From the pictures above it seems it is very practical to do.

Steve

 

[Jackdaw]

Steve,

Sorry, talking about degree of deflection of the line under control. The more defection, the more the load on the twing (line and hardware). In that original picture I posted, the twing is defecting the sheet about 60 degrees. So the load on the twing will equal the load on the sheet (BIG). Once the defection is over 60 degrees, the load is more than the sheet load.

 

[Dream Weaver II]

Jackdaw,
Thanks for the explanation. That makes sense, I will continue to research this before I commit to action. I should have lots of time as it's still snowing here.

Steve

 

[Jackdaw]

Jackdaw,
Thanks for the explanation. That makes sense, I will continue to research this before I commit to action. I should have lots of time as it's still snowing here.

Steve

More detail. Enjoy.


http://www.harken.com/article.aspx?id=12857

 

[vizwhiz]

On our Macgregor's, the genoa will always be outside the shrouds unless you want two sets of sheets or are willing to move them inside the shrouds when you reef. I doubt most people will do this.

I have an inner set of fairleads for the original hank-on jib (not used, as i have a furling genoa), which some have said could be used well when the genoa is partially furled and the sheets need to be inside the shrouds. The boat had nothing for when the sheets are outside the shrouds...just run them to the winches.

 

[Erik V]

holdech

do you have any diagrams to illustrate this setup

Erik

 

[Dream Weaver II]

Jackdaw, found another calc. by Harken for sheet loading. My situation is less than 300 lbs load. So even if that doubles at the twing block, which I don't believe it will as it probably won't pass 45*, the load is not that large. This is based on not more than 15kts of wind on the fully deployed genoa. Yes I will need a reasonably strong attachment point for the twing block, but that is doable.

http://www.harken.com/MainsheetLoading/

 

[Dream Weaver II]

Sorry sent the wrong link. Notice, here they say that with the block at 45* the load on the block is only .3 x the sheet load ? ? or 30%


http://www.harken.com/content.aspx?id=9096

 

[Jackdaw]

Sorry sent the wrong link. Notice, here they say that with the block at 45* the load on the block is only .3 x the sheet load ? ? or 30%


http://www.harken.com/content.aspx?id=9096

No, here they are talking about the load along the TRACK that wants to pull the car backwards (so the load is shown as a frontal load holding it in place)

This is for traditional genoa car adjusters, that allow the car to be moved under load.

 

[Jackdaw]

Jackdaw, found another calc. by Harken for sheet loading. My situation is less than 300 lbs load. So even if that doubles at the twing block, which I don't believe it will as it probably won't pass 45*, the load is not that large. This is based on not more than 15kts of wind on the fully deployed genoa. Yes I will need a reasonably strong attachment point for the twing block, but that is doable.

http://www.harken.com/MainsheetLoading/

Yep. Remember that twings will be under less load most of the time because they do not take nearly the load the sheet does, they just defect it (until really extreme ends of its range).

If made of slippery line like dyneema, it's is also very easy to loop the twing line through an attach point twice to make an easy 2:1 or 3:1 purchase.