Genoa Track Reseal

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Jul 7, 2009
218
Catalina 30 Mark I Stockton, Mo
Hello all:

I am interested in rebedding the Genny rails on my C30 while I'm rehabbing everything else. I am also in the middle of over-drilling and filling all the holes through the decks. I am wondering if I need to do this on the tracks, or should I just settle for rebedding them? It would be a tremendous amount of work to overdrill and fill all of the holes. Also, what is the best material to rebed everything? Is 4200 the right material for this job?

Any advice is welcome and appreciated!

Mike
 
Jan 6, 2010
1,520
Foolproof,

Sorry if this is a bit lengthly. I too am in the middle of a large project on my 1980 boat. It started with deck sag under the mast and ended up a whole topsides redo.

I decided that after seeing within a year my deck gelcoat (or what was under it) started to disappear in spots. I found a paint manufacturer online which apparently went commercial called Supermarine. They state that most of their works were government vessels. In prepping to paint I removed all the thru deck fittings from the deck including chainplates & stanchions, everything. I found various caulkings used over the years from the original RTV thru 5200, thru 20 year latex.

To my surprise, here is what I found. RTV I believe no one uses in boats anymoreas over time it’s like hardened Liquid Nails. 5200 is a bitch and should only be used below the waterline or in a once only compression application. If the sun bears on 5200 and you have movement such as stanchions etc. you will notice cracking on the exposed areas. I have to assume that the crack will lengthen, as 5200 is not pliable over time. Not to mention having to rebed a fitting caulked with it before. The best way to use 5200 is if you only have to do it ONCE.

When I got around to fittings bedded with silicone caulk here is what I found. I used the clear silicon early on around 1990. After some years when the 20-year latex caulk came out, I thought this has to be better/easier for re-bedding and cleaning off the old caulk. So I used this for items I would need to redo every couple of years (stanchions, chainplates etc.)

When removing the latex bedded fittings I noticed that it did not even out for a total seal like I assumed it would and these were fittings I had leak problems with. Therefore the seal did not hold up.

But, all of the compression type fittings I removed that had silicone had a full seal throughout. The unexposed caulk was still pliable. and easily removed with acetone & scrubby pad. None of these fittings ever leaked. Man was I surprised.

I picked up some DOW contractor grade silicone caulk and will rebed my compression type fittings with this. I put in a new pane in my 9x9 hatch. The plastics guy sent me to get the DOW caulk, as the original seal was 30 years old and still pliable & waterproof. Silicon just like another caulk will over time degrade on exposed edging from UV, saltwater. temperature, age. But this DOW stuff still looked in great shape.

My sail tracks are concave underneath. This makes sealing a breeze since there is room underneath for ample caulk and completely out of sunlight. I would suggest a matching backing plate underneath for evenly spreading out the load.

Just a thought, an old salt told me when rebedding, apply caulk anywhere up to 1/8" approx. thickness. The secret is to only tighten the fitting until an equal amount of caulk squeezes out on all sides (.060"-.090"). Then walk away for 2 days. This allows time for the caulk to setup. Come back and tighten as necessary, trimming off the excess. And you now have a complete seal throughout. Never tighten all the way, when you caulk as all the good stuff is squeezed out & wasted. And your "gasket seal" is paper-thin.

Another thing I try to do is never let the topside screw head/bolt turn in the fitting while tightening from below as this can cause you to lose caulk seal between the screw/fitting and thru hole.

Sealing the upper shroud chainplate is a pain between the vertical chainplate and the cover plate (if that’s your setup circa 1980 thru 1984 I believe). I think the DOW caulk will hold up with better adhesion for sealing. Black caulk holds up better/longer in UV conditions.


So I may use latex for small thrudeck fittings, silicon for larger fittings (especially tracks, chainplates, stanchions etc.) 5200 only for one time stuff.

Hope this helps………..
CR
 
Jul 7, 2009
218
Catalina 30 Mark I Stockton, Mo
Hey CR, that's the answer I was looking for. I wasn't sure what to use and where, except for a couple of books. Real-world experience trumps the written word...Thanks!!
 
Jan 22, 2008
405
Catalina 380 16 Rochester NY
Hey Mike;

When you say Genny rails, are you talking about the rail the jib sheet cars ride on, that sits on a ridge? For some reason I call it the toe rail. It's about 15 or so feet long...

Is this the same rail you are talking about?

I have about 5 or 6 internal leaks from the screws that hold this rail in place. I've replaced a few of the screws...but the leaks just go somewhere else.

My boat is a 77. I just don't relish this project!

Thanks
Chris

http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=115928

This post has a picture of my boat and you can see the rail I am talking about is the rail on the outside of the stanchions and life lines. There is another smaller rail just to the left of the hand rails on the upper deck. What is this rail for?
 
Jul 7, 2009
218
Catalina 30 Mark I Stockton, Mo
I believe it is the toe rail...I recall having seen it called that somewhere. I'm still learning all the terms, so forgive me. At least I didn't call it "the long silver thingy with all the holes in it"!

CapnRon had some good advice for rebedding the toerail, using a contractor grade silicone caulk, and gradually tightening the nuts (not the screws) to pull the rail down, forming a nice 1/8" gasket under the rail. I don't relish the job either, as getting at all of the nuts looks like it will be a real bitch! But I really, REALLY don't want water leaks or a soggy hull, so I will do what I need to do.

I am also in the process of over-drilling all of the thru deck holes while on the hard, and I can tell you that's very time consuming too, but will increase strength and help keep the core dry at the same time, so it will be worth all of the work.
 
Jan 22, 2008
405
Catalina 380 16 Rochester NY
I did the same with the through hulls. The head intake and sink drains had gate valvles and the engine raw water intake had newer seacock, but there was no backing for it. When I removed the old throughhulls, there was no wooden core, all of them went through solid fiberglass. I did refill before reinstalling them.

I saw a few websites that reccomended creating fiberglass disks as backing plates, but I thought this would be a huge task. I made 3 disks out of marine grade ply and then painted them with 3 or 4 coats of thinned epoxy. I then used 5200 to secure them to hull after sanding, smoothing and then roughing the area.

The only mistake was the new holes were a bit off and it was difficult screwing the through hull mushroom heads to the new gate valves. I bought Groco bronze tri-flange seacocks. They were expensive, but I got the best deal I could find through Jamestown Distributors. Don't forget to order the bolts, nuts and locking washers. As an aside, when I first ordered them, they sent me 9 bronze carriage bolts that cost almost $10 each! What a world!

You're right about the toerail nuts, many of the bolts underneath just barely clear the deck to hull joinery. I tried to do some triage last summer and removed a few. After the bolts were off, I couldn't get the screw to back out without stripping the head so I knocked them out from underneath. Unfortunately this ruined the tip of the screw and made them useless. 2 1/2" stainless screws aren't cheap... I may try using a hammer drill after removing the bolts, maybe that will loosen them out.
 
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