Genoa size- what works for you?

[robwhelton]

I'm having quite a dissapointing time with the furling genoa that came with my new Vega. I believe it's a 150% type, it has no padding in the luff, it is pretty old and baggy, and it has had additional UV strips seewn over the previous ones. From what I understand this all stacks up to dismal windward performance under reefed genoa.
This was confirmed at the weekend when on port tack I found myself almost completely unable to make ground to windward in a strong F4. I had to carry more genoa than I wanted just to get a decent shape out of it, resulting in an unbalanced helm and too much heeling.

So, my new genoa will definately have a padded luff and will be smaller. But how much smaller? Where I live (Outer Hebrides, Scotland) we can often be one of the windiest places in Europe... strong wind performance is very important. I can always keep the existing sail as a lightwind drifter. So, any suggestions on how small to go? 130%? Less?

Thanks

Rob

 

[robwhelton]

I'm wondering what size of genoa people are using on their Vegas. I'm looking for a smaller one than my current 150%, as I find it useless for beating in stronger conditions. I'm tempted to go for a 130% genoa but I'd be very interested to hear if anybody has tried going even smaller?
Many thanks,

Rob Whelton
V1583 'Mavanier'
Stornoway

 

[wxt8981]

Now I'm wondering: wouldn't a smaller than 130% be a jib? Look at the hangs, they would show whether or not it is a genoa or a jib.
Wilhelm

________________________________
From: robwhelton robwhelton@...
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, May 14, 2010 8:12:40 AM
Subject: [AlbinVega] Genoa size- what works for you?


I'm wondering what size of genoa people are using on their Vegas. I'm looking for a smaller one than my current 150%, as I find it useless for beating in stronger conditions. I'm tempted to go for a 130% genoa but I'd be very interested to hear if anybody has tried going even smaller?
Many thanks,

Rob Whelton
V1583 'Mavanier'
Stornoway

 

[hheiduck]

When I still had "Flicka", I had new sails cut in 2001 and after long discussions with the sail maker on City Island decided on a 135% Genoa mounted on newly installed furling gear.

The sail maker did suggest installing a foam wedge along the luff for better sail shape when reefing (furling) the headsail which I decided against as I thought that I would use it full out most of the time and anyway, a wedge could be added at any time.

That was a good decision as I used the sail full out the vast majority of the time.

Hans Heiduck

 

[tim_klynn]

I've got Hans' Flicka now.His sailmaker gave him good advice.The 135 does work great. I sail on a lake which often has some very gusty shifting winds and it does fine partially furled.
On days where it is blowing 10 knots or more with much bigger wildly shifting gusts, we go out with a double reefed main and a very small sail that I picked up on ebay that was probably a storm sail for a larger boat. I would guess it is a 70 or so. This is probably much too small of sail area, as we generally only do 3-4 knots into the wind, but it makes the guests on board comfortable and makes managing the sails easy when a big gust comes in at 120 degrees off the "prevailing" wind direction.The boat seems pretty well balanced with this sail set up, and it keeps the 135 from excess wear and tear. If I were buying a new sail, I would go larger than 70.

The 135 seems to really shine in about 6-12 knots of wind. We easily hit hull speed and only heel 15-20 degrees. I generally don't sail w/the 135 all the way out when winds average over 10 (usually we have the shifty gusts in those conditions), but would if I was in an area of more constant winds (or once I have more experience). The 135 does fine in lighter winds as well. Hans gave me a wire luff 2oz 170 that I am either have a luff tape added to it so I can put it on the furler or just pull the hanks and try flying it like a drifter/assymetric for those very light wind days.

I've only sailed on the ocean once, and I've got to say that I am very envious of you guys that get to sail with somewhat steady breezes....-Tim

 

[pjacobs55]

Hi Rob,
It depends a lot on sailing conditions, but I have a 120% jib and I love it. It sails well in all conditions, and has a high cut foot for good visibility, and does not get splashed too much in heavy seas. It furls down to a 90% and still keeps good shape.

For really light airs I have a 150% nylon jib that attaches to the anchor roller and has a free luff.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

 

[robwhelton]

Thanks everyone for the replies.
I'm very much in a region of strong conditions: I live in the Outer Hebrides, off the Atlantic coast of Scotland. We do get light days, when we're under a high pressure system, when you chase evry little puff of wind. But most of the time we're sailing in 15-25kt and I need the new sail to still be efficient when reefed well down for 30kt+ conditions. Next year I will add a removable forestay to fly even smaller sails.
I like the idea of a tall, narrow, blade-style foresail, but obviously the Vega is a headsail-driven boat and I don't want to end up underpowered. Most of the sailmakers I have received quotes from have suggested 130% or 135%- but then again I did say that I was looking in that sort of size range.

Rob

 

[j.hunter9999]

I have a 165, 130, 100, 60 and a storm jib (for when its really rocking and rollin). We're on the great lakes, so the 165 comes in pretty handy in light wind. In our case, we will generally reef the main first, then haul a foresail that matches. For example, with one reef in, we might run the 130 (or possibly the 165, depending on the wind).

Hope that helps.
Jack

 

[hheiduck]

Hi there,

I don't know if conditions around the UK are similar, but a good source to find out may be the UK Vega site.

Hans

 

[pjacobs55]

Rob,
120%

When I installed my new Harken furler, the "Sailmaker's Instructions" said:
"Cut off top of luff tape so it is 18 to 24" (450 to 600 mm) below head of sail. This allows head to lag behind rest of sail to help flatten sail. It will also help head to roll more smoothly."

I haven't done this (yet) as my sail is only 2 years old and seems to reef well as it is. But on an old bagged-out sail it might be worth a try. What kind of furler do you have?

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

 

[groundhogyh]

Wilhelm,
I thought it was the 100% mark that defined a jib or Genoa, is this not the case? What are hangs?roy

 

[groundhogyh]

Peter,What does cutting off the luff tape at the top do?
Does it pull on the midsection of the sail to flatten?roy

 

[pjacobs55]

Roy,
According to Harken, it allows the part of the sail with luff tape to start rolling up before the tapeless head does, about 1 full turn that would help flatten the luff.

It's my understanding that sails cut for a furler are cut flatter to help with this problem, so if you've adapted an older hank-on sail to furling you may not be able to get as good a shape when reefed.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

 

[robwhelton]

Hi again
new sail is on order now. I had a chat with Quay Sails who initially had suggested 130% as a good size, usable in a wide range of conditions. I explained that my eventual plan is for a three-sail system: keep the current 150% for light days, the new sail for 90% of the time, and a storm jib on a yet-to-be-fitted inner forestay. Rod Brown at Quay reckoned that if I went down to 120% I could easily do away with the storm jib entirely- especially as I will have a foam luff and a flat cut.
So, decision made- 120% it is. Hope I've made th right choice!

Rob

 

[robwhelton]

Hi
just as a follow-up to my queries about genoa size: I thought long and hard about whether to go for 120% or 130%... initially I considered 120% as I have a servicable 150% that I intended to use on lighter days and I wanted the best possible heavy-weather performance from the new sail. On further thought, though, I realised that there was no way I was going to routinely swap between sails. Handling the 150%, which is made of quite heavy fabric, and trying to flake it on the foredeck is a nightmare. I can't see it coming out of it's bag for a very long time!
So I decided to compromise and go for 130%. I chose Bainbridge Ocean Premium Plus fabric as the marginal cost wasn't that much... my Wayfarer dinghy has a similar square-mesh fabric and I like it a lot, it seems much more robust and stretch-resistant. Quay sails gave me the best overall price including substantial VAGB discount.

The new sail has transformed the boat. We can point higher, we heel less, and we can continue to sail effectively in much stronger winds. It has also made it much easier for my wife to learn about sail trim, as it is now possible to get both the luff and the leach to set properly at the same time! In combination with a cleaned-up bottom we are on average a knot faster than we used to be, and a couple of weeks ago managed to 6.9kt on the gps. Not bad for a wee boat!

I think we've chosen the right size as we don't really feel underpowered in light weather, and from F4 onwards the 130 has all the advantages as you can still use it unfurled.

Next stop- new mainsail.

Rob

 

[pjacobs55]

Anyone know the dimensions of the full size Vega spinnaker? Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.
111 Commercial St.
Portland ME 04101
207/772-2191
Fax 207/774-3940

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From: robwhelton
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 11:12 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Genoa size- what works for you?
Hi
just as a follow-up to my queries about genoa size: I thought long and hard about whether to go for 120% or 130%... initially I considered 120% as I have a servicable 150% that I intended to use on lighter days and I wanted the best possible heavy-weather performance from the new sail. On further thought, though, I realised that there was no way I was going to routinely swap between sails. Handling the 150%, which is made of quite heavy fabric, and trying to flake it on the foredeck is a nightmare. I can't see it coming out of it's bag for a very long time!
So I decided to compromise and go for 130%. I chose Bainbridge Ocean Premium Plus fabric as the marginal cost wasn't that much... my Wayfarer dinghy has a similar square-mesh fabric and I like it a lot, it seems much more robust and stretch-resistant. Quay sails gave me the best overall price including substantial VAGB discount.

The new sail has transformed the boat. We can point higher, we heel less, and we can continue to sail effectively in much stronger winds. It has also made it much easier for my wife to learn about sail trim, as it is now possible to get both the luff and the leach to set properly at the same time! In combination with a cleaned-up bottom we are on average a knot faster than we used to be, and a couple of weeks ago managed to 6.9kt on the gps. Not bad for a wee boat!

I think we've chosen the right size as we don't really feel underpowered in light weather, and from F4 onwards the 130 has all the advantages as you can still use it unfurled.

Next stop- new mainsail.

Rob

 

[tim_klynn]

The 130 is a good choice, at winds over about 8 knots my 135 points better than my 142 and if the winds picks up, it works better furled as well.

I don't know if it is the "official" spinnaker dimensions, but I've got a star cut that is 30' on the luffs and 17'-10" on the foot. Sailrite lists a 30.67' luff w/18.31' foot w/a total area of 477 sq ft.

I think I read somewhere (the Vega Manual?) that the spinnaker is 505 sq ft.
For PHRF racing, the foot (and maybe midgirth) for no penalty is 180% of the J dimension, so about 18.3'.

I picked up 1/2oz asymmetrical spinnaker that we flew for the first time this weekend in a club race that had almost no perceptible wind. Once we got it flying, we were able to catch up to some faster boats that were using poled out genoas. When the lack of wind got really bad and even the 1/2 oz aspin wouldn't fly, we poled it out. If we hadn't had the aspin, we probably would have timed out on the race (on very light air days we've been having trouble finishing within the required 1/2 hour of the first boat in our class to finish, which is usually a Catalina 25 or Capri 22 with mylar sails and flying spinnakers). So far this year, we haven't finished last too often, but that probably has more to do with me convincing some of the other non-racing type sailors on the dock to try racing in their cruising boats, and less to do with any sailing skill on my part. -Tim