Genoa Sheet Attachment

[Ilanortho]

Hi;

Getting ready to attach a new sheet to 120 Genoa. WOuld like to use one continuous line (105') with a bowline in the midpoint to attache to the clew.
Last year I used just a bowline which chafed plus was impossible to detach without cutting it.
Any suggestions for a shackle that can be disconnected from the clew with change of sail?
Working limit of 1/2" line is 9000 lbs.
Thanks.
Ilan

 

[stuartsw]

Have you considered using a dyna (i.e. "soft") shackle?

 

[Hello Below]

Hi;

Getting ready to attach a new sheet to 120 Genoa. WOuld like to use one continuous line (105') with a bowline in the midpoint to attache to the clew.
Last year I used just a bowline which chafed plus was impossible to detach without cutting it.
Any suggestions for a shackle that can be disconnected from the clew with change of sail?
Working limit of 1/2" line is 9000 lbs.
Thanks.
Ilan

Marlow 7mm SK78

Any suggestions for a shackle that can be disconnected from the clew with change of sail?
Working limit of 1/2" line is 9000 lbs.

That is a whole lot of working load????. If the 9000 lbs is breaking strength then a 7mm dyneema soft shackle will more than fit the bill. Check out the price here:
http://www.thechandleryonline.com/product_info.php?products_id=9591

 

[BlowMeAway]

Hi guys, I went through a very similar request for information in this thread on SBO:

https://forums.sailboatowners.com/i...w-two-lines-or-one.183445/page-4#post-1353624

 

[SG]

Are you reusing the line that chafed; or starting over?
The attachment to the jib would be with single or double shackle?
Are you trying to splice one, or two eye(s) to attach the shackle(s)?

http://www.samsonrope.com/Documents/Brochures/RM_Line_Selection_Guide_WEB.pdf

The 9,000 pounds is the working limit of the line (before knots or splices or..). Your Hunter 34 really doesn't need a shackle that has a 9,000# working load -- that would be one mean, huge shackle :^)))). I think a working load that you'd need is a fraction of that.

What type of line are your using?

P.S -- I wouldn't have used a bowline with a continuous line sheet for a genoa. I've used bowlines for single jib sheets -- not never a continuous "loop":

I don't know who suggested that???

(The usual method is a Larkshead knot

https://www.google.com/search?q=jib...xE4LwmQHfq6yACw#imgrc=5iBzC4gcfVNhZM:&spf=191

 

[shemandr]

9,000lbs could almost lift your boat out of the water. With modern cordage working limit is almost a non-issue. Grip, ability of hardware (Stoppers, cleats, cams, winches) to hold line, stretch, UV resistance and abrasion resistance are more important in choosing cordage. And there is the semi intangible property of handling. Some lines are stiff and don't bend well. Some don't like taking a sharp turn in a block. Some don't take twist well. Some float, some not. It's a daunting task to choose cordage. You really need some expert help. Or you may buy 50' of expensive "Dinghy painter." Ask how I know.

 

[Ilanortho]

9,000lbs could almost lift your boat out of the water. With modern cordage working limit is almost a non-issue. Grip, ability of hardware (Stoppers, cleats, cams, winches) to hold line, stretch, UV resistance and abrasion resistance are more important in choosing cordage. And there is the semi intangible property of handling. Some lines are stiff and don't bend well. Some don't like taking a sharp turn in a block. Some don't take twist well. Some float, some not. It's a daunting task to choose cordage. You really need some expert help. Or you may buy 50' of expensive "Dinghy painter." Ask how I know.

Sorry; did't mean i need a 9000 pound working shackle; several have commented on this; is 1/2 inch line with 9000 lb rating

 

[Ilanortho]

Are you reusing the line that chafed; or starting over?
The attachment to the jib would be with single or double shackle?
Are you trying to splice one, or two eye(s) to attach the shackle(s)?

http://www.samsonrope.com/Documents/Brochures/RM_Line_Selection_Guide_WEB.pdf

The 9,000 pounds is the working limit of the line (before knots or splices or..). Your Hunter 34 really doesn't need a shackle that has a 9,000# working load -- that would be one mean, huge shackle :^)))). I think a working load that you'd need is a fraction of that.

What type of line are your using?

P.S -- I wouldn't have used a bowline with a continuous line sheet for a genoa. I've used bowlines for single jib sheets -- not never a continuous "loop":

I don't know who suggested that???

(The usual method is a Larkshead knot

https://www.google.com/search?q=jib+sheet+knot&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-SearchBox&tbm=isch&imgil=5iBzC4gcfVNhZM%3A%3BaaULeTQf0CGH4M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.sailmagazine.com%252Fcruising%252Fcruising-tips%252Fno-foul-jib-sheet%252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=5iBzC4gcfVNhZM%3A%2CaaULeTQf0CGH4M%2C_&usg=__Q8EmEIg82y-L0_oY6idGuo2S0yc=&biw=1344&bih=870&ved=0ahUKEwj5soDusuPSAhUCeCYKHd8VC7AQyjcIKQ&ei=q-jOWLmxE4LwmQHfq6yACw#imgrc=5iBzC4gcfVNhZM:&spf=191

Didn't have any problems with the bowline other than it got so tight at the knot that I had to cut it off. The loop remained open and the clew of the sail did not get chaffed, rather it was the line that got chaffed. I'd rather the line than the sail edges.

Of course would not reuse the chaffed part of the bowline; got cut off anyway. Otherwise functioned flawlessly all season. The 9000 lbs is a non-issue and probably shouldn't of even mentioned it other than to point out that the line or itself is unlikely to fail. I don't even have a 9000 lb shackle on my rode!

I really like the continuous single line concept; easy to use; don't need two shackles at the clew.

 

[Ilanortho]

Are you reusing the line that chafed; or starting over?
The attachment to the jib would be with single or double shackle?
Are you trying to splice one, or two eye(s) to attach the shackle(s)?

http://www.samsonrope.com/Documents/Brochures/RM_Line_Selection_Guide_WEB.pdf

The 9,000 pounds is the working limit of the line (before knots or splices or..). Your Hunter 34 really doesn't need a shackle that has a 9,000# working load -- that would be one mean, huge shackle :^)))). I think a working load that you'd need is a fraction of that.

What type of line are your using?

P.S -- I wouldn't have used a bowline with a continuous line sheet for a genoa. I've used bowlines for single jib sheets -- not never a continuous "loop":

I don't know who suggested that???

(The usual method is a Larkshead knot

https://www.google.com/search?q=jib+sheet+knot&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-SearchBox&tbm=isch&imgil=5iBzC4gcfVNhZM%3A%3BaaULeTQf0CGH4M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.sailmagazine.com%252Fcruising%252Fcruising-tips%252Fno-foul-jib-sheet%252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=5iBzC4gcfVNhZM%3A%2CaaULeTQf0CGH4M%2C_&usg=__Q8EmEIg82y-L0_oY6idGuo2S0yc=&biw=1344&bih=870&ved=0ahUKEwj5soDusuPSAhUCeCYKHd8VC7AQyjcIKQ&ei=q-jOWLmxE4LwmQHfq6yACw#imgrc=5iBzC4gcfVNhZM:&spf=191

Don't even have a 9000 lb shackle on my rode! Hunter specified 1/2" line and that's what I use and is excessive no doubt.
The Larkshead knot: When it cinches down as it will, won't it wear the fabric at the corner of the clew surrounding the metal ring? Didn't have any fabric wear with the bowline ( the line itself chaffed a bit by the metal ring.)

 

[Ilanortho]

Marlow 7mm SK78


That is a whole lot of working load????. If the 9000 lbs is breaking strength then a 7mm dyneema soft shackle will more than fit the bill. Check out the price here:
http://www.thechandleryonline.com/product_info.php?products_id=9591

Really like this idea. Any downsides to the soft shackle? Wear?? Easy to detach after stressed alot?

 

[Hello Below]

Really like this idea. Any downsides to the soft shackle? Wear?? Easy to detach after stressed alot?

A little light reading.

http://www.sailmagazine.com/gear/sail-rope-and-rigging/on-deck-soft-shackles/

 

[shemandr]

There's controversy about this. But the Larks Head, or Cow hitch, which I guess is the same, has very little movement of the line against the cringle. As was noted after a while the bowline is hard to untie. And the Larks Head ends up the same. I submit that there is little movement and hence not much chafe.
As long as you're not doing sail changes very much, I think the Larks Head is a clean treatment of the headsail sheet.

 

[Gunni]

If you can't untie a bowline you aren't tying a bowline. It is one of the most incorrectly tied knots. When tied correctly it is by design easy to untie.

 

[Meriachee]

The Larkshead knot: When it cinches down as it will, won't it wear the fabric at the corner of the clew surrounding the metal ring? Didn't have any fabric wear with the bowline ( the line itself chaffed a bit by the metal ring.)

There is the point to be made about over analyzing things.

 

[Warren Milberg]

I'm with Gunni re correctly tied bowlines. I've used one for years on a 150 genoa on my boat and it's always easy to open when needed. Take a look at:

www.netknots.com/rope_knots/bowline

 

[weinie]

If you can't untie a bowline you aren't tying a bowline. It is one of the most incorrectly tied knots. When tied correctly it is by design easy to untie.

What Gunni said. I don't know why there is a constant desire to re-invent the wheel when it comes to jib sheets.
Bowlines are simple to untie even with old rope and after a season of heavy use with lots of tension. I've NEVER had one come done on it's own (polyprop. line notwithstanding).
In addition, having two sheets is definitely better than one as it's easier to manage and if one sheet were to break (not that I've ever seen this). Sail changes are certainly easier, if you have do them.

 

[BlowMeAway]

Yes, the bowline is an excellent knot with many uses, and the beatings of this dead horse continue. A bowline under load will not come untied on its own. It CAN however shake out of a flogging sail given the right conditions. How do I know, it happened to me once on a very windy day. It was determined that the best remedy was to put a hitch or stopper knot below the bowline and has worked well since that time. However if I task crew members to make a headsail change, I only assume that they know how to tie a bowline, unless told otherwise. As for soft shackles and a single long line for both starboard and port headsail sheets (yes my personal preference and not yet a self proven connection to the clew) will look like this:

 

[weinie]

Yes, the bowline is an excellent knot with many uses, and the beatings of this dead horse continue. A bowline under load will not come untied on its own. It CAN however shake out of a flogging sail given the right conditions. How do I know, it happened to me once on a very windy day. It was determined that the best remedy was to put a hitch or stopper knot below the bowline and has worked well since that time. However if I task crew members to make a headsail change, I only assume that they know how to tie a bowline, unless told otherwise. As for soft shackles and a single long line for both starboard and port headsail sheets (yes my personal preference and not yet a self proven connection to the clew) will look like this:

View attachment 134450 View attachment 134451

You are worried about a bowline coming undone but not that?

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I agree with weinie, if you let your sail flog enough to undo a bowline, you are not taking care of your poor sail! I'm also in agreement with what's said about a bowline. After a full season, sometimes it's a little difficult to break the back of that knot ... but not THAT difficult. The cow hitch (or larkshead) would be far more difficult to remove. The only complaint I have about the bow line is that it does hang up on my lifeline.

 

[BlowMeAway]

You are worried about a bowline coming undone but not that?

No not worried, hopeful. Two lines and two bowlines are a pain to remove whilst you change out a hanked on headsail in a decent blow. You'd have to explain the physics of getting that soft shackle to pull four laps of cordage through the grommet to me to prove your point. If you can suggest a quicker way to reef a headsail when needed, I'd like to know that too.