Still getting used to the small details of rigging my Seaward 17. Where do you run the lines on a genoa? Not sure but I think it's a 130. First problem: the sail catches the lifelines. #2 the lines don't run smoothly around the mast. #3: should the lines run around (outside) the shrouds? There are fairleads on the cabin, but I think they are for a jib, not a genoa. Help!
Genoa lines
- Thread starter Dhamil6490
- Start date
Not familiar with your boat however jib sheets run outside everything and lead back to a jib track typically on deck or toe rail then winch on large boats. Yours may just lead back from sail to cockpit.
I'm familiar with the Seaward 17, however, a couple of your questions are not unusual for most boats.
Genoa sheets will need to run outside the shrouds. If run inside the shrouds there will not be a fair lead to the Genoa when broad reaching or running. This will affect sail trim.
Not sure what you mean about lines not running smoothly around the mast. It could be the sheets are too short, they should be 1.5 times the length of the boat. Or if you mean they get caught on things on the fore deck, that is not unusual.
Relative to the size of the boat, genoas are quite large and the foot of the sail is usually below the life line, sails will get caught on them especially in light air and when the tacks are slow. There are rollers that snap onto the life lines that help the sail move over the life line.
Harken 285 Sail Chafe Protector
The Harken 285 Sail Chafe Protector (Roller) is designed to ease genoas over lifelines or past shrouds and to help large roach mainsails clear backstays. Features Snaps over shrouds above the spreaders to allow genoas to roll over your spreaders and
Thanks. Helps alot. Another question: I've seen a few boats where the Genoa is not directly attached to the deck. They appear to be on an extension wire that lifts the foot above the lifelines. Want to understand more about this configuration.
I need to proof read my posts before I post them. 
I meant to say "I'm not familiar with the Seaward 17" so my comments are more general in nature.
Some genoas are cut to provide a high foot primarily to increase visibility. As you have probably noticed visibility forward is poor with a deck sweeping Genoa. Whether you can do this on your boat depends on the the sail and the length of the luff, there may not be enough room at the top of the forestay for the Genoa to be on a pennant.
Another consideration is a change in sailing characteristics. Raising the height of the sail will change the way it balances the mainsail and make the boat more tender as the center of effort will move up. The boat will heel sooner with the sail being higher. Six inches or so won't make much difference, however, raising the sail high enough to clear the life line will.
If visibility is the main concern, have a sail maker put a window in the Genoa. This will improve visibility with little effect on the sail's efficiency. If chafe is a concern, the Harken rollers will make a difference and you can get some sticky back Dacron spreader patch material and put it on the areas that are chafing.
I meant to say "I'm not familiar with the Seaward 17" so my comments are more general in nature.
Some genoas are cut to provide a high foot primarily to increase visibility. As you have probably noticed visibility forward is poor with a deck sweeping Genoa. Whether you can do this on your boat depends on the the sail and the length of the luff, there may not be enough room at the top of the forestay for the Genoa to be on a pennant.
Another consideration is a change in sailing characteristics. Raising the height of the sail will change the way it balances the mainsail and make the boat more tender as the center of effort will move up. The boat will heel sooner with the sail being higher. Six inches or so won't make much difference, however, raising the sail high enough to clear the life line will.
If visibility is the main concern, have a sail maker put a window in the Genoa. This will improve visibility with little effect on the sail's efficiency. If chafe is a concern, the Harken rollers will make a difference and you can get some sticky back Dacron spreader patch material and put it on the areas that are chafing.
The photo below might help describe how the jib/geneoa is rigged on a Seaward 17. It appears to show jub sheets going to a turning block on each side of the boat's deck next to the cabin then to a winch forward of the cockpit.
It would appear like many boats once a owner gets it they can modify the rigging to suit their desires.
Congrats on the boat. No personal experience with a Seward, but I spent 20 years saying a Montgomery 15 all over the Pacific NW. So a little experience with small boat rigging.
Looking at the boat isn Sailboat Data, this one is rigged using tracks on the cabin deck. The jib is rigged. It is trimmed inside the shrouds. The jib is "high cut" so it will clear any life line (not present on this boat). Should be relatively easy to sail even solo.
The Image shown by @sail sfbay demonstrates a change to the rigging design by the owner. Having a "Winch" to aid in handling big sails make sense. In my experience a winch is not needed on a small boat (less than 19 feet) as the power in your arms is often more than enough to control and set the sails.
The Genoa is designed to stretch beyond the shrouds. To get a free fairlead and optimum trim, you need to add a block along the rail somewhere a little ahead of the cockpit. Then you lead the line back into the cockpit. You may have to use a cam cleat to hold the Genoa sheet.
Look at the small boats and steal their ideas to work on your boat.
Good luck.
Congrats on the boat. No personal experience with a Seward, but I spent 20 years saying a Montgomery 15 all over the Pacific NW. So a little experience with small boat rigging.
Looking at the boat isn Sailboat Data, this one is rigged using tracks on the cabin deck. The jib is rigged. It is trimmed inside the shrouds. The jib is "high cut" so it will clear any life line (not present on this boat). Should be relatively easy to sail even solo.
The Image shown by @sail sfbay demonstrates a change to the rigging design by the owner. Having a "Winch" to aid in handling big sails make sense. In my experience a winch is not needed on a small boat (less than 19 feet) as the power in your arms is often more than enough to control and set the sails.
The Genoa is designed to stretch beyond the shrouds. To get a free fairlead and optimum trim, you need to add a block along the rail somewhere a little ahead of the cockpit. Then you lead the line back into the cockpit. You may have to use a cam cleat to hold the Genoa sheet.
Look at the small boats and steal their ideas to work on your boat.
Good luck.
I would highly recommend a great little book called Royce's Sailing Illustrated, a fun yet very comprehensive book filled with important information for the novice sailor or experienced professional. No massive preachy tome this, just a well put together book with everything from rigging, docking and even splicing. I've been using it to teach sailing for over 45 years, and still refer to it now and then, myself.
In my opinion, unless you are racing with a crew to watch, a deck sweeping jib is dangerous , most particularly on a single handed boat. I once ran over a buoy that I just didn't see, hidden behind a jib. Both of my boats have a pennant on the jib to raise it over the lifelines
On a lovely summer's day I was on the helm of an 81 foot schooner, sailing in Charleston Harbor with a film crew aboard. One of the camera men was aloft filming and all aboard, about 30 people including me, had their eyes on him. I was snapped back to reality as we glanced off a green harbor channel buoy. Green boat, green buoy so not even a mark was left on either, but it reminded me rather ungraciously that keeping a good watch on what's ahead is not a bad thing to do. lol
That piece is called a tack pendant. You can raise the sail as long as you can still get full hoist... i.e the halyard will pull the sail high enough to get proper luff tension. A working jib (smaller headsail with a high cut clue) will most likely have enough room to allow another foot or so of hoist. A large headsail like a genoa (135 % or more) will probably have less room at the top. However, many roller furling genoas are cut to allow room for the drum and thus will naturally have a higher foot clearance.
In any event, the procedure on a large headsail where you need to give some assistance to its clearing over the lifelines is called "skirting the headsail (or genoa). It is not uncommon to station crew at the mast to help with getting a large headsail across the deck and over the lifelines... If the crew stays next to the mast inside the shrouds' "cage" there will be no surprises for the crew. He just reaches out and pulls it across.
Final important comment... it sounds like you are relatively new to saiing.... so let me suggest you evaluate your technique when tacking that will eliminate the problem of the sheet hanging up on the mast and rigging ....... and that is to NOT try to pull the sail across the deck with the sheets.. Instead, allow the wind to do that for you.... do not completely release the sheet until you see the sail "backwinding".... especially on a light air day.. Backwinding the jib will also help the boat turn, requiring less rudder pressure and thus less speed loss and less chance of stalling "in irons"
Make it a habit to ease the sheet a foot or so at first... then hold it until the boom wants to come across on its own... then completely release the sheet off the winch by pulling straight up on the line. The wind will push the sail across as you strip in the slack on the new side by hand before winching.
Thanks! I'm learning so much from this forum. Very grateful.I need to proof read my posts before I post them.
I meant to say "I'm not familiar with the Seaward 17" so my comments are more general in nature.
Some genoas are cut to provide a high foot primarily to increase visibility. As you have probably noticed visibility forward is poor with a deck sweeping Genoa. Whether you can do this on your boat depends on the the sail and the length of the luff, there may not be enough room at the top of the forestay for the Genoa to be on a pennant.
Another consideration is a change in sailing characteristics. Raising the height of the sail will change the way it balances the mainsail and make the boat more tender as the center of effort will move up. The boat will heel sooner with the sail being higher. Six inches or so won't make much difference, however, raising the sail high enough to clear the life line will.
If visibility is the main concern, have a sail maker put a window in the Genoa. This will improve visibility with little effect on the sail's efficiency. If chafe is a concern, the Harken rollers will make a difference and you can get some sticky back Dacron spreader patch material and put it on the areas that are chafing.
I reversed the forward section of the lifeline so I can disconnect the pelican hook from the pulpit so ithe lifeline does not snag the jib/genoa.
I never really had issues with snagging the jib sheets on the mast, its that #@$*# forward hatch cover that gets the original windward sheet every time I don’t keep slight tension on it during a tack.There is just enough of a lip on it to catch the sheet. Fortunately I haven’t torn the hatch cover off (yet).
Yep. You'd think that after all these years of sailing, I'd remember to clear the jib sheet from the hatch before tacking.
Of course if the hatch isn't jumping up to grab the sheet, the windlass is or its little cousin the cleat steps up to do the job.
I probably will muddy the waters here, or offer more info than you wish to read, but there are some basics for jib/genoa lead positions that many sailors don't know, or care about, but it really does make your boat sail more efficiently - even if you only cruise or day sail.
The larger the headsail, the further back the attachment point (fairlead) for the lead should be. That's why you see tracks with an adjustable car instead of a column of blocks in different positions for different size genoas.
If you sheet your jib or genoa sheet so you can sail as close to the wind as you can, you should slowly turn your boat into the wind to see how the leading edge of the sail luffs (or breaks so the wind develops a curl in the sail which will eventually back wind it if you keep going).
What you wish to accomplish is to see the leading edge of the sail (the luff) break at the same time from top to bottom. If that is the case, the lead is where it should be. However, if the bottom half of the sail breaks before the top, then your lead is too far forward. And if the top of the sail breaks before the bottom, the lead is too far aft.
The manufacture of the boat, who probably supplied you with one headsail, should have the lead in the proper place for that sail if it is attached at one spot and not on a track.
If you decide to buy a larger headsail (or have one already), then you have to do what I explained to find the lead point to properly trim that sail. That is where a track comes in handy.
Of course, on some smaller boats, the jib might have the fairlead on the cabin top while a larger genoa would have the fairlead on the deck along side the cabin windows or at the toe rail if it is to be trimmed outside the lifelines.
Fairlead not only is located for proper sail trim for various size genoas, but it also provides a fair lead to the winch, if the boat has one. In the latter example, a fair lead will allow the sheet to wrap around the winch from a lower angle so that there is no override of the sheet around the winch. Sometimes winches are mounted on a raised surface to allow this and sometimes even on a raised surface at an angle to help facilitate a lead of the winch to the bottom of the winch consistent with the slope of the lower portion of the drum of the winch. That's my two cents. Happy Sailing.
The larger the headsail, the further back the attachment point (fairlead) for the lead should be. That's why you see tracks with an adjustable car instead of a column of blocks in different positions for different size genoas.
If you sheet your jib or genoa sheet so you can sail as close to the wind as you can, you should slowly turn your boat into the wind to see how the leading edge of the sail luffs (or breaks so the wind develops a curl in the sail which will eventually back wind it if you keep going).
What you wish to accomplish is to see the leading edge of the sail (the luff) break at the same time from top to bottom. If that is the case, the lead is where it should be. However, if the bottom half of the sail breaks before the top, then your lead is too far forward. And if the top of the sail breaks before the bottom, the lead is too far aft.
The manufacture of the boat, who probably supplied you with one headsail, should have the lead in the proper place for that sail if it is attached at one spot and not on a track.
If you decide to buy a larger headsail (or have one already), then you have to do what I explained to find the lead point to properly trim that sail. That is where a track comes in handy.
Of course, on some smaller boats, the jib might have the fairlead on the cabin top while a larger genoa would have the fairlead on the deck along side the cabin windows or at the toe rail if it is to be trimmed outside the lifelines.
Fairlead not only is located for proper sail trim for various size genoas, but it also provides a fair lead to the winch, if the boat has one. In the latter example, a fair lead will allow the sheet to wrap around the winch from a lower angle so that there is no override of the sheet around the winch. Sometimes winches are mounted on a raised surface to allow this and sometimes even on a raised surface at an angle to help facilitate a lead of the winch to the bottom of the winch consistent with the slope of the lower portion of the drum of the winch. That's my two cents. Happy Sailing.
A fix for that problem is to rig a piece of line (shock cord works even better) from a few feet up the mast to a somewhere ahead of the hatch on the foredeck. The lazy sheets will lie above the hatch rather than settling on the deck to be snagged. In case there are a few out there that don't know, the fore deck hatch should always remain closed when sailing just because of the possibility of the sheet hanging up.