General advice on a "wack" sailing idea

[Leeward Rail]

You have to ask yourself a few questions..

You wouldn't operate on someone without with hardly any experience.
Why would you consider doing something similar with a yacht on the Atlantic ?
In either case people can easily die.

What makes you want to do it ? I would guess, that you don't have enough experience to know if you will even enjoy the trip. Someone people have very romantic, but irrational/incorrect ideas about the reality of sailing on the ocean, and living on/maintaining a sailboat.

By all means eventually go sailing, but don't delude yourself in regards to the skill required, and what the day to day experience will be like.

I'd suggest get sailing experience and then eventually bareboat charter... then eventually sail offshore

P.S. That Hunter would have no business sailing across the ocean. At the very least get someone competent to help you choose the correct boat.

 

[Plumper II]

I think the PhD lead in is a red herring. Who cares that you are PhD students. The real question is should people with absolutely no experience buy a sailboat and go sailing. The correct answer is yes. Sailing is as easy as falling off a log. You will learn that part quickly. Navigation is even easier with modern technology. The hard part? Choosing the boat. Get some help choosing the boat so that it will forgive. Your many mistakes. I don't think your current choice is a good one.

 

[Bristol35-5sailboat]

1. Focus on finishing your PhD's - usually the last year or so is very time demanding. You then have the rest of your lives to go sailing or whatever.
2. Gain as much experience sailing and fixing sailboat equipment. Can you both navigate and analyze weather patterns? Sailing skills in heavy air and light air, anchoring skills? Can you row a dinghy to land on and then leave a beach in breaking waves? Do you get seasick? Emergency medical skills? Do you really enjoy sailing where it is cold? Can you fix a diesel engine? An outboard? Make up an emergency shroud? Do fiberglass and sewing repairs? Troubleshoot electronics? Lubricate winches, blocks, and everything that moves? Use a bosun's chair safely? Have a toolkit which matches your skills? Invest in your skills for the next two years.
3. Do not buy a fixit up boat until you have the time and skills to devote to making the process a success. There will always be really good boat deals, anywhere in the world. Start with a much smaller and simpler boat than a 46' anything. Every boat for sale, whether new or immaculate, will need maintenance and probably have a few issues.
4. When you are prepared, consider buying a boat in the destination area where you have already visited, sailed, and know you will enjoy spending your time and money. e.g., The Virgin Islands is a great area to learn and practice sailing skills, with lots of used boats, and protected waters adjacent to open ocean.

You will then soon know if or when you are ready to or even want to cross an ocean. The preparations to cross an ocean will require significant additional time and money, beyond preparing a boat to enjoy in a moderate locale and climate.

Been sailing for 63 years - and loved every minute!

 

[Kings Gambit]

1. Focus on finishing your PhD's - usually the last year or so is very time demanding. You then have the rest of your lives to go sailing or whatever.

Serious graduate students don't have much of a "life" outside of school, so as time grows near the end they start "dreaming" of a life, or a return to life. Buying a relatively large boat and keeping it maintained is nearly the equivalent of buying and maintaining a house in some areas. "Career issues" don't go away with graduation; assuming they are looking for a career. If lucky, one or both of 'em will have job offers or post-docs when they finish. So a year-long cruise to the Caribbean and back in a 46-ft boat as owners would be a pipe-dream for a couple of newbies starting careers--but FUN to think about! A more scaled down version, however, might be possible. The Med is a beautiful place to cruise, I've been told.

 

[baburns]

I think I might just fly to the Carib, charter a captained boat of similar dimension and fitting, sail for at least a month or more, fly back to Denmark, re-visit your plan. Life on the open sea is quite different than academia on dry land. Davey Jones' locker is full of sailing wannabes. Good luck with your dream.

 

[gcsitts]

From my experience of 30 years sailing, I think your dream of doing this is wonderful and should be pursued. My concern is that you have set too many goals and timetables too early.
That type of a dream should be taken in steps and realistically re-evaluated monthly, if not weekly. A rigid "we are determined to meet this detailed multi-year timetable" plan does not sit well with the sailing gods.

I suggest this plan:
1.) Take sailing lessons.
2.) Take offshore lessons.
3.) Only then buy your boat.
4.) Take offshore lessons on your boat and outfit it.
5.) Take a five day offshore cruise to test your dream; watches, fatigue and seasickness are tested on multi-night overnights.
6.) If you remain married after all that and still like the plan, find an experienced crew to go with you to Denmark.
7.)If you are still together when you reach Denmark and still want to continue your dream you will not need the advice of this group, you will be giving advice.

Don't lose your dream but don't let it be so rigid that you won't modify it.

.

 

[macdu]

As others have already mentioned - Get a survey. Sail her and get to know her well. Have competent crew sail with you. Many 466's have crossed oceans. You have to start somewhere stick with it and have fun.

 

[Pistonbroke]

The trip to Denmark will be more difficult than the Atlantic crossing in my view. Fit out in Gibraltar, sail around the Med. to say Barcelona and back. Then make your way to the Canaries and then south westerly to about latitude 14 North. Don't worry about storms if the boat is up to the job you'll be ok. Good luck and enjoy.

 

[Pistonbroke]

One more thing. Buy a Sextent and some tables and enjoy working out your position rather than relying on electronic gadgets just use those to verify your workings.

 

[Fred White]

High time sailor

Hello Peter

Actually I am a high time Midwestern muddy water sailor with a dozen or more coastal cruises. Also an avid reader of sailing experience of others who have braved blue water.
I think if you are patient and do it right, you are in for a lifetime of great sailing.

But first, get lots of local experience with an experienced blue water sailor. Lots of reading too, you can gain most good suggestions for those who have been there.

Suggest not doing your Atlantic trip in November. Too cold. Also good idea to do ocean trips in tandem with other sailboats. Good idea to fly to the Carrabean after some experience and sailing cruising school, charter a 40 footer and see how it goes.

Lots to learn for ocean sailing, use of radios, navigation, good EPIRB, good raft,
water maker, auto steering systems, basic medical first aid, good idea to take at least four people first cruise to share duties and allow adequate rest for all. Weather trends and ocean currents, GPS usage, and on and on.

It is very important to ease your spouse to be into all this. Otherwise, she may choose something less challenging like Everest, or sky diving.

 

[Stu Jackson]

But one thing those incidents did teach me was to avoid making the same mistake twice (although i have been known to make new ones.)

You, too?

I think that's why I go sailing as often as I can. I want to figure out something new to screw up!

Actually, you will note that the sea stories about horrors and wild experiences are usually best sellers, much more so than the "I went to sea, nothing happened, uneventful voyage."

Of course, that's the whole goal, right?:dance:

 

[MrBill_FLL]

fly to Caribbean, buy boat, sail around, (a year), sell boat, fly back.

as others have said, getting boat to Denmark is no small task.

and the Atlantic crossing is not a place to learn the boat, or your abilities.

Any comments on a Hunter 466 for blue water?

 

[baburns]

It isn't the size of the ship, its the motion of the ocean! A quote from the '60s. Still true today.

 

[JVB]

Do not do it the hard way

Why make it an ordeal by starting so far from the fun sailing area. Take your money, ride a plane to Puerto Rico and start the year there. Beginning the year with a challenging ocean passage is crazy. Learn and enjoy the Caribbean first, then sail back to Denmark if you still have that itch.

 

[Kefaa]

fly to Caribbean, buy boat, sail around, (a year), sell boat, fly back.

as others have said, getting boat to Denmark is no small task.

and the Atlantic crossing is not a place to learn the boat, or your abilities.

Any comments on a Hunter 466 for blue water?

This is probably the best advice on this topic I have seen in a long time. You are burned out getting your degree and a year off sounds great. So get there. You will not incur what could be a "life experience" of unwanted proportions. In addition, the Caribbean has plenty of local captains, plenty of shelter to get behind when you need it and help when you require it. It also has an airport if you decide in month 4 you need to move on.

I would also suggest that you go to some local marinas. You may be able to cut a deal with a local boat owner who uses the boat rarely. You will "care for it" for the benefit of being on it. I love every minute on my boat and sometimes hate hours. There are few experiences like forgetting to depressurize a joker valve to remind you that boats are houses with bad attitudes. And how working through the problem is a sense of accomplishment you rarely feel.

Get the feeling for what it is like and see if you really can spend as much time together as sounds romantic now. Also get used to what is not there and what it is like when it is 35 degrees outside and every interior surface appears to be weeping like a baby. Or that storm that didn't seem so bad "on the news" feels like you are bouncing in a can and you are still in port.

"IF" sailing if for you, it will be obvious after a couple of weeks. Under sail, with a good wind and a star...there are few things on earth to match it.

 

[kenackerman]

Lots of very good advice in the posts above. Please, for your own sakes, study it carefully and take note that: you don't know what you don't know about sailing until you have experienced it directly in many different conditions.

As others have pointed out quite well, acquiring the wide knowledge base needed to safely cross an ocean is quite different than cramming for an exam. It is more like performing hands-on skills that include: propulsion, navigation, damage control & avoidance, and meteorological forecasting without a radio. In this case, both knowledge & experience are needed. Most important of all is to learn to sail without relying on electronics or an engine.

Do some people cross an ocean without all that knowledge? Yes, but if conditions turn ugly, a much higher percentage of them die than those who have the experience to solve or prudence to avoid both mechanical and weather problems under fear of loss of life stress. Training & experience can overcome fear in life threatening situations.

Crew competency & confidence is very important in less than favorable conditions. Do you have enough crew to manhandle high load situations? Do they have sea legs and iron stomachs to remain upright & useful? Can you safely single hand the vessel if they are below, barfing their guts out? It's happened to me with 4 adult experienced male crew about 100 miles off shore.

The foregoing is not to discourage, it is to inform. Prudence, knowledge, and experience are the keys to safe sailing anywhere in the world. Like any three legged stool, take any one leg away and you are more than likely to fall on your butt.

In my opinion, it would not be prudent to cross the Atlantic until you have gained the knowledge & experience to give you the confidence they bring to handle poor conditions that can be generated AFTER you leave port.

 

[capta]

Way back when, I used to tell people to buy a boat and go to sea (from the west coast) and learn as you go, after all, sailing is not rocket science and man has been doing it for several thousand years.
Well, that was when about all you could buy was a long keel, heavy displacement, often split rigged, ponderous, safe in any weather, boat of wood or steel. You had to have a bunch of books for celestial navigation, a few on sailing (like Royce's Sailing Illustrated) and Bowditch, volumes 1&2 and the sailing directions, which were written for ships and better as sea stories than cruising guides.
Hawaii was a couple of thousand miles SW-ish and an old lady in a bath tub could make the trip. You only had to check out the planes flying overhead every 20 minutes to know you were getting your celestial down.
Your next voyage was south to Polynesia, your first perilous venture where your navigation was important, if you didn't want to hit an atoll in the dark or sail around the southern ocean like the Marie Celeste, forever. Polynesia was still east of the hurricane zone, so you could work on your anchoring skills now, and get a lot better at understanding the nature of tropical weather systems.
It just isn't like that today. There is such a multitude of designs out there, some good, some bad, and three times that number of opinions on which of these designs one should buy. I don't believe it a reasonable thing to just buy a boat that appeals to you and go sailing off into the sunset. It's certainly possible, with all the electronic aids available these days, but it's still a case of should one? Sailing is still sailing, but the boats have changed, a lot!
Good luck.

 

[YVRguy]

You're posing the question as if it's quantitative - IE: How much experience is enough to go ahead with your plan? I think in reality it's a qualitative question. IE: should you go for it? In other words, it sounds like you're looking for permission from those more experienced than you to do something you already know is risky.

In the eyes of the world the difference between a good decision and a bad decision often comes down to the outcome. If you guys go for it and it works out well, most people will admire your courage and adventurous spirits. You'll make a YouTube video and be roundly admired. On the other hand if you end up lost at sea due to a storm or some other hazard, people will shake their heads and sneer at your foolishness. You'll be a cautionary tale.

So in the end it's less about right and wrong and more about your risk tolerance and your philosophy on life. It's against the law to drive to the store for milk without your seatbelt on but there's no law against sailing across the ocean on a small boat.

Is it a good idea? Objectively I'd say no, given the experience you'll have by then. Unless you make it, in which case it'll be the best decision you ever made.

 

[mauruuru]

Hire a captain and at least one other crew

 

[MrBill_FLL]

Alternatively

Fly to Fort Lauderdale, find a cheap boat, and fix it up here, sail to Caribbean, have fun for a year, Then sell it, or sail it back to US or wherever