I have been shopping around for a C-30 for a few months now and it seams to be a lot of nice 30s with the atomic 4 gas . Should I hold out for the diesel??
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LaDonna Bubak - Catalina Owners
Not necessarily
A-4s have a pretty loyal following and parts are usually easy to find. I believe there's a company in CA that specializes in parts for them. It's really more what you feel comfortable with. There are a lot of folks out there that are (not unjustly) nervous of gas engines for their reputed propensity to explode. I say "reputed" as there have been instances of gas engines exploding but it's not by any means common. From what I understand, if the A-4 is maintained and serviced well, they're not a bad engine to own. Personally, I wouldn't rule out a boat with a gas engine, it would just depend on the condition and price. I certainly wouldn't pay as much for a gas engine as diesel. LaDonna
A-4s have a pretty loyal following and parts are usually easy to find. I believe there's a company in CA that specializes in parts for them. It's really more what you feel comfortable with. There are a lot of folks out there that are (not unjustly) nervous of gas engines for their reputed propensity to explode. I say "reputed" as there have been instances of gas engines exploding but it's not by any means common. From what I understand, if the A-4 is maintained and serviced well, they're not a bad engine to own. Personally, I wouldn't rule out a boat with a gas engine, it would just depend on the condition and price. I certainly wouldn't pay as much for a gas engine as diesel. LaDonna
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gary jensen
diesel is best
Keep looking for a diesel. Gas can be very dangerous and most diesels, when maintained, are bullet proof.
Keep looking for a diesel. Gas can be very dangerous and most diesels, when maintained, are bullet proof.
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Joe Luciano
Definitely a Diesel
Gary is right. Hold out for the diesel engine. Safety is certainly a consideration and no one would argue that diesel is the safer of the two. But, from a reliability standpoint, you can't beat a diesel engine. There is less to go wrong and properly maintained, the diesel will last longer.
Gary is right. Hold out for the diesel engine. Safety is certainly a consideration and no one would argue that diesel is the safer of the two. But, from a reliability standpoint, you can't beat a diesel engine. There is less to go wrong and properly maintained, the diesel will last longer.
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Ron
Gas vs. Diesel
I purchased my Cat 30 with a 5411 diesel. Many others have the Atomic-4 that I know. How many atomic 4's are out there? ALOT! How many have exploded or caught fire from gasoline? I don't know. But "I" have not seen one. After the purchase of my boat, I wished I had a larger diesel engine. Should I have waited for another boat? Maybe, but then I would not be sailing now. I believe that if well maintained the Atomic 4 is another "great" auxilary. If you plan to motor a lot, go for the bigger diesel. If you see a great boat that you are in love with, and it has an atomic 4, don't let that be your sole decision. You could get a boat with a diesel, but find your dream-boat with an atomic 4! There are many "motor boats" out there with gasoline engines! Thousands of the things! Are they safe? Just buy it and go "Sailing"! If you wait for the "perfect" boat you might not find one! Had my "First Mate" waited for the perfect Captain, I would be a lone Sailor!
I purchased my Cat 30 with a 5411 diesel. Many others have the Atomic-4 that I know. How many atomic 4's are out there? ALOT! How many have exploded or caught fire from gasoline? I don't know. But "I" have not seen one. After the purchase of my boat, I wished I had a larger diesel engine. Should I have waited for another boat? Maybe, but then I would not be sailing now. I believe that if well maintained the Atomic 4 is another "great" auxilary. If you plan to motor a lot, go for the bigger diesel. If you see a great boat that you are in love with, and it has an atomic 4, don't let that be your sole decision. You could get a boat with a diesel, but find your dream-boat with an atomic 4! There are many "motor boats" out there with gasoline engines! Thousands of the things! Are they safe? Just buy it and go "Sailing"! If you wait for the "perfect" boat you might not find one! Had my "First Mate" waited for the perfect Captain, I would be a lone Sailor!
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Malcolm
Gas vs. Diesel
Go to the website http://www.yachtsurvey.com/engines.htm and select the article called Power Options, it explains in detail the pros and cons of both. This is a great site. Look at www.yachtsurvey.com for many articles about blisters, structural information, engines and maintenance.
Go to the website http://www.yachtsurvey.com/engines.htm and select the article called Power Options, it explains in detail the pros and cons of both. This is a great site. Look at www.yachtsurvey.com for many articles about blisters, structural information, engines and maintenance.
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George
Gas vs. Diesel
I disagree with the findings in the gas vs. diesel article from the previous posting and have to put in my two cents. I think that the author deals mainly with performance power boats as he mentions intercoolers and turbochargers. My experience on sailboats is completely different. I bought a ten year old boat that had over 1,000 hours on a 23hp Universal engine. My engine mechanic said I had at least ¾ life left in the engine. The engine ran completely trouble free for the two years I owned the boat. It always started and ran like a champ all day long if called upon. Diesel maintenance was easy. I changed the oil and replaced filters every year and every 100 hours. Replaced the engine zinc twice a year. Inspected/cleaned the heat exchanger and replaced the antifreeze annually. Diesel maintenance is simpler than gas. You don't have the added headache of changing plugs and points and maintaining the timing. I've had marine gas engines overheat and quit on me due to being out of tune. Diesels develop most of their torque and HP at the lower end of the power curve. I can run my boat at hull speed in the 2000 RPM range. I can "fast cruise" at 1600 RPM which gives me a 30 hour endurance out of a tank of fuel. I recall that the Atomic runs at 2000-3500 RPM and the endurance suffers for it. The hourly rate for servicing is about the same as gas. Insurance is cheaper for a diesel auxiliary. Diesel is an oil and can only volatize under compression. Spilled fuel doesn't automatically pose a fire hazard like gasoline does. I understand that most gas fires on boats are the result of leaking tanks and/or fuel connections. The gas vaporizes in the bilges and can ignite from an errant electrical spark or engine backfire. I once had an engine fire on an Atomic four in a C30, although not your standard fuel fire. Heat from exhaust manifold caused the soundproofing to overheat and catch fire. We were motoring for about half a day and the engine temp gauge showed no signs of overheating. At the time we had the blower turned off as half the crew was down below having diner. Fortunately, we caught the fire early, and had only scorching on the engine and wiring (we cut away the insulation). After an hour we able to restart the engine and were on our way. No matter what engine you decide on, I recommend the foam core/foil type soundproofing, tape all edges and leave ample room around the manifold. I've been completely satisfied with diesel and wouldn't consider anything else in the future. The safety, convenience and reliability far outweighs any potential price difference.
I disagree with the findings in the gas vs. diesel article from the previous posting and have to put in my two cents. I think that the author deals mainly with performance power boats as he mentions intercoolers and turbochargers. My experience on sailboats is completely different. I bought a ten year old boat that had over 1,000 hours on a 23hp Universal engine. My engine mechanic said I had at least ¾ life left in the engine. The engine ran completely trouble free for the two years I owned the boat. It always started and ran like a champ all day long if called upon. Diesel maintenance was easy. I changed the oil and replaced filters every year and every 100 hours. Replaced the engine zinc twice a year. Inspected/cleaned the heat exchanger and replaced the antifreeze annually. Diesel maintenance is simpler than gas. You don't have the added headache of changing plugs and points and maintaining the timing. I've had marine gas engines overheat and quit on me due to being out of tune. Diesels develop most of their torque and HP at the lower end of the power curve. I can run my boat at hull speed in the 2000 RPM range. I can "fast cruise" at 1600 RPM which gives me a 30 hour endurance out of a tank of fuel. I recall that the Atomic runs at 2000-3500 RPM and the endurance suffers for it. The hourly rate for servicing is about the same as gas. Insurance is cheaper for a diesel auxiliary. Diesel is an oil and can only volatize under compression. Spilled fuel doesn't automatically pose a fire hazard like gasoline does. I understand that most gas fires on boats are the result of leaking tanks and/or fuel connections. The gas vaporizes in the bilges and can ignite from an errant electrical spark or engine backfire. I once had an engine fire on an Atomic four in a C30, although not your standard fuel fire. Heat from exhaust manifold caused the soundproofing to overheat and catch fire. We were motoring for about half a day and the engine temp gauge showed no signs of overheating. At the time we had the blower turned off as half the crew was down below having diner. Fortunately, we caught the fire early, and had only scorching on the engine and wiring (we cut away the insulation). After an hour we able to restart the engine and were on our way. No matter what engine you decide on, I recommend the foam core/foil type soundproofing, tape all edges and leave ample room around the manifold. I've been completely satisfied with diesel and wouldn't consider anything else in the future. The safety, convenience and reliability far outweighs any potential price difference.
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Bob Camarena
Re-Sale Value
Although I agree with Donna's points, there's no question in my mind that there's a bias in favor of Diesels. Therefore, you need to consider that the re-sale value and ease of re-sale (should you decide to move up or otherwise need to sell) will be greater if you go with the Diesel. I think this would offset any discount you might see in purchase price.
Although I agree with Donna's points, there's no question in my mind that there's a bias in favor of Diesels. Therefore, you need to consider that the re-sale value and ease of re-sale (should you decide to move up or otherwise need to sell) will be greater if you go with the Diesel. I think this would offset any discount you might see in purchase price.
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Peter Hine
How far do you go?
Besides the safety and maintenance advantages of diesel, there is the fuel economy aspect (diesels as a whole MUCH MORE stingy on fuel), and the availability of fuel. Where I sail in the Calif. Delta, gas is more easy to come by at a marina than diesel. But, if I were going to Mexico, I'd want the diesel because the long distance between fuel stops, and most of the fuel stops are commercially oriented, and therefore are more likely to have diesel. Also, many of us who haven't maintained a diesel feel comfortable with "points & plugs", like the old 62 Chevy, while diesels are a mystery.... It all depends on what you're comfortable with, and what you plan to use the boat for. Personally, I think a C30 w/diesel would be great to do the 800 mile Baja run, but for now I'll keep my C27 w/ 2stroke OB for my trips, which are usually under 60 miles before a fuel stop....
Besides the safety and maintenance advantages of diesel, there is the fuel economy aspect (diesels as a whole MUCH MORE stingy on fuel), and the availability of fuel. Where I sail in the Calif. Delta, gas is more easy to come by at a marina than diesel. But, if I were going to Mexico, I'd want the diesel because the long distance between fuel stops, and most of the fuel stops are commercially oriented, and therefore are more likely to have diesel. Also, many of us who haven't maintained a diesel feel comfortable with "points & plugs", like the old 62 Chevy, while diesels are a mystery.... It all depends on what you're comfortable with, and what you plan to use the boat for. Personally, I think a C30 w/diesel would be great to do the 800 mile Baja run, but for now I'll keep my C27 w/ 2stroke OB for my trips, which are usually under 60 miles before a fuel stop....
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Rob Rich
A Word On Atomic 4's
I had the same reservations you had about Atomic 4's until my surveyor mentioned that they were good engines with a bad rap. Here is what I found during some recent preventive maintenance. As a note, the engine was running fine before the work. 1. Removed all four spark plugs - found them all moderately carbon-fouled. Replaced with new. Turned over the engine. Engine ran with no discernable difference, telling me that it has a very high tolerance for imperfect spark conditions. 2. Broke one Ignition wire during tune up. Re-installed plug and fired up engine. Ran very well on 3 cylinders, with only a barely perceptible vibration felt in the cockpit. I again have to conclude that the engine will run well in spite of imperfect conditions. 3. Prior owner ran the engine to overheat condition one day when the pump impeller broke. Engine simply shut down when it got too hot and the temp guage was faulty. The owner waited 30 minutes, and the engine fired right back up... That was 3 years ago. Still runs like a top and starts by the second crank. In conclusion, I am really impressed with the engine. I am not sure I would take one out on really long offshore voyages, but then again, I probably wouldn't do that in a C-30 anyway. Bottom line, don't fear the Atomic 4. Best Regards - Rob Here's a great website to visit w/links. http://www.geocities.com/atomicfour
I had the same reservations you had about Atomic 4's until my surveyor mentioned that they were good engines with a bad rap. Here is what I found during some recent preventive maintenance. As a note, the engine was running fine before the work. 1. Removed all four spark plugs - found them all moderately carbon-fouled. Replaced with new. Turned over the engine. Engine ran with no discernable difference, telling me that it has a very high tolerance for imperfect spark conditions. 2. Broke one Ignition wire during tune up. Re-installed plug and fired up engine. Ran very well on 3 cylinders, with only a barely perceptible vibration felt in the cockpit. I again have to conclude that the engine will run well in spite of imperfect conditions. 3. Prior owner ran the engine to overheat condition one day when the pump impeller broke. Engine simply shut down when it got too hot and the temp guage was faulty. The owner waited 30 minutes, and the engine fired right back up... That was 3 years ago. Still runs like a top and starts by the second crank. In conclusion, I am really impressed with the engine. I am not sure I would take one out on really long offshore voyages, but then again, I probably wouldn't do that in a C-30 anyway. Bottom line, don't fear the Atomic 4. Best Regards - Rob Here's a great website to visit w/links. http://www.geocities.com/atomicfour
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Rob Rich
Another Word on the Atomic Bomb
An earlier post claims that the Atomic 4 operates between 2000 and 3500 RPM - this is incorrect. Normal operating RPM on my boat is 1500 to 2000 rpm at most. That is also what the owner's manual recommends. The engine produces 30hp (a lot for a 27 footer), and even at 1000 rpm it will push the boat at about 3mph. 1800 pushes us at 5 mph, which is fine for me. 2000 is fine for stormy weather, but anything beyond that puts you at hull speed real quick, at a higher fuel consumption rate. SO - Do your research. Talk to OWNERS, not people who have "heard things" about these little beasts. A diesel engine is clearly better for your application, but NOT a deal breaker. Enjoy!
An earlier post claims that the Atomic 4 operates between 2000 and 3500 RPM - this is incorrect. Normal operating RPM on my boat is 1500 to 2000 rpm at most. That is also what the owner's manual recommends. The engine produces 30hp (a lot for a 27 footer), and even at 1000 rpm it will push the boat at about 3mph. 1800 pushes us at 5 mph, which is fine for me. 2000 is fine for stormy weather, but anything beyond that puts you at hull speed real quick, at a higher fuel consumption rate. SO - Do your research. Talk to OWNERS, not people who have "heard things" about these little beasts. A diesel engine is clearly better for your application, but NOT a deal breaker. Enjoy!
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Rob Rich
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/GasDiesel.htm
This is a great article by a marine surveyor that someone passed to me. If you are seriously considering the choice, you should look at it. Rob
This is a great article by a marine surveyor that someone passed to me. If you are seriously considering the choice, you should look at it. Rob
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jvisser
Here's my test:
Don't try this at home! (At least not indoors) Get two metal buckets, and put a splash of gasoline in one, and a splash of diesel fuel in the other. Toss a match into one, and then the other. What happens? (Don't really do this!!!) The point is, even if there was no engine involved, gasoline is very dangerous stuff, ESPECIALLY in enclosed spaces. If the least bit of gasoline is leaking, you have a potential for disaster. This has nothing at all to do with the quality or reliability of the engine. A gasoline powered boat with even a small fuel leak can go Kaboom! when you try to start it. There was a very vivid video making this point in my USCG Aux. safe boating class. From the experiement above, you will see that the diesle fuel extinguishes the match. jv
Don't try this at home! (At least not indoors) Get two metal buckets, and put a splash of gasoline in one, and a splash of diesel fuel in the other. Toss a match into one, and then the other. What happens? (Don't really do this!!!) The point is, even if there was no engine involved, gasoline is very dangerous stuff, ESPECIALLY in enclosed spaces. If the least bit of gasoline is leaking, you have a potential for disaster. This has nothing at all to do with the quality or reliability of the engine. A gasoline powered boat with even a small fuel leak can go Kaboom! when you try to start it. There was a very vivid video making this point in my USCG Aux. safe boating class. From the experiement above, you will see that the diesle fuel extinguishes the match. jv
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Rob Rich
Responsibility
Hate to say it, but a responsible sailor checks his vessel before starting the engine. He also runs the blower for several minutes to clear any possible fumes. Last but not least, common sense dictates that you do not start an engine if you smell gas. I am still alive, and hope to be for a while. I consider driving a greater threat to my safety.
Hate to say it, but a responsible sailor checks his vessel before starting the engine. He also runs the blower for several minutes to clear any possible fumes. Last but not least, common sense dictates that you do not start an engine if you smell gas. I am still alive, and hope to be for a while. I consider driving a greater threat to my safety.
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