We just purchased a Garmin Chartplotter & Radar Bundle.............I just found out that the 28" Dome is 27 LBS, and according to Practical Sailor Magazine it's the heaviest one on the market. My question is, We have a Hunter 37' 1982 Cutter & the previous Radar was pole mounted with a 23/8" x 8' pole, would an Edson 2 3/8 X 138" thru hull mast support that heavy of of dome in rough seas.............We are EXTREMELY new to sailing and would appreciate all the help we can get...........Thanks, bob
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garmin radar
you asked, you got. store or send the radar back and take lots of sailing and cruising lessons before you even consider the remote possibility of going out where and when you need radar. a sailor new as you should never stray far enough out not to be able to get out of the way of fog or bad weather. you may not be delighted with this response, but i hope you take this old pilot's advice; learn your boat, the water, wind and weather first.
you asked, you got. store or send the radar back and take lots of sailing and cruising lessons before you even consider the remote possibility of going out where and when you need radar. a sailor new as you should never stray far enough out not to be able to get out of the way of fog or bad weather. you may not be delighted with this response, but i hope you take this old pilot's advice; learn your boat, the water, wind and weather first.
Abrupt - Grave, learining curve
Mort's right, stay outaa, traffic, fog and adverse conditions where you may need instruments. I know a guy who ran up on rocks tuning in radar, and I knew three skippers personally who got into big trouble using "waypoints".
Mort's right, stay outaa, traffic, fog and adverse conditions where you may need instruments. I know a guy who ran up on rocks tuning in radar, and I knew three skippers personally who got into big trouble using "waypoints".
Garmin now has a smaller dome
You might be able to swap out the large dome for the smaller one. The reason we bought the Raymarine chartplotter/radar was because of the size of Garmin's dome. As for having radar, it is a great safety factor. Having the overlay on top of the chart is worth every penny you paid for it. It would just be nicer if it was smaller. Warren
You might be able to swap out the large dome for the smaller one. The reason we bought the Raymarine chartplotter/radar was because of the size of Garmin's dome. As for having radar, it is a great safety factor. Having the overlay on top of the chart is worth every penny you paid for it. It would just be nicer if it was smaller. Warren
Put it on the mast -
that pole will hurt when it hits you on the back of your head. The mast will support it if you mount it well. In rough seas, you will need the altitude to see over the swells. The cabling should be easier than most but I haven't seen it up close and personal like some others I have worked on. Try it out in good weather and see what things look like on the screen that you can see with your eyes. It is not as easy as you might think to interpret the image. Get some sailing training or go out with someone more experienced if you can. If you are as new as you say, that is my best advice. There are Coast Guard courses most everywhere, too. Keep us informed what you do and how you like it. It is good information for those of us here who already know everything.
that pole will hurt when it hits you on the back of your head. The mast will support it if you mount it well. In rough seas, you will need the altitude to see over the swells. The cabling should be easier than most but I haven't seen it up close and personal like some others I have worked on. Try it out in good weather and see what things look like on the screen that you can see with your eyes. It is not as easy as you might think to interpret the image. Get some sailing training or go out with someone more experienced if you can. If you are as new as you say, that is my best advice. There are Coast Guard courses most everywhere, too. Keep us informed what you do and how you like it. It is good information for those of us here who already know everything.
radar
exactly how do you figure radar is a great safety factor to somebody who states 'we are extremely new to sailing?
exactly how do you figure radar is a great safety factor to somebody who states 'we are extremely new to sailing?
Give the guy a break...
... cause he bought his boat and it had a radar already. But it probably did not have a GPS, so he bought a new GPS and figured he might as well upgrade the radar while he was at it. No crime in that, and I've been told that Garmin does a pretty good radar these days. Having just found myself in the same position, I kept my existing Raytheon radar (yes, they were still called Raytheon when my radar was built) and got just a GPS. My view is that you need to use radar in clear weather for a while before you should trust it in low visibility conditions. Its the first time I've had a radar, and its just one more tool. But the last time I was in fog (aboard a charter boat) I depended up the GPS, good polarized glasses, and I sent my kids out to the bow and told them to keep there ears open. Then I throttled way back and crept along the edge of Spieden Island (its plenty deep) to be sure I knew where I was at all times. If I had had radar then, you can be sure I would have been looking at it. In additional to the compass, the GPS, the water color, the dark mass of Spieden to my left and my young'ins on the bow. As far as where - I'd mount it on the mast, so its up higher and out of the way. I think the mast bracket is going to be much cheaper than the heavy duty Edson pole mount.
... cause he bought his boat and it had a radar already. But it probably did not have a GPS, so he bought a new GPS and figured he might as well upgrade the radar while he was at it. No crime in that, and I've been told that Garmin does a pretty good radar these days. Having just found myself in the same position, I kept my existing Raytheon radar (yes, they were still called Raytheon when my radar was built) and got just a GPS. My view is that you need to use radar in clear weather for a while before you should trust it in low visibility conditions. Its the first time I've had a radar, and its just one more tool. But the last time I was in fog (aboard a charter boat) I depended up the GPS, good polarized glasses, and I sent my kids out to the bow and told them to keep there ears open. Then I throttled way back and crept along the edge of Spieden Island (its plenty deep) to be sure I knew where I was at all times. If I had had radar then, you can be sure I would have been looking at it. In additional to the compass, the GPS, the water color, the dark mass of Spieden to my left and my young'ins on the bow. As far as where - I'd mount it on the mast, so its up higher and out of the way. I think the mast bracket is going to be much cheaper than the heavy duty Edson pole mount.
Radar is an added safety item
Keep the radar and learn to use it. Being an inexperienced sailor doesn't mean you should avoid instruments that will help you figure out the situation. Information about what's around you can keep you calm rather than induce panic if you get closed in with fog. That allows you to do what is primary - CONTOL THE BOAT. Use the radar all the time and see what things look like, then when it crumps up, you will visualize your situation. Having information doesn't mean you won't learn to sail correctly. If you stay close in coastal cruising, the radar will really help you. You will be in a lot more traffic than one would be farther out to sea. Learn to use the MARPHA function and you can avoid close calls. Mast mount your radar - it works better because you have less ground clutter due to swells. The distance is much better the higher the radar. Good luck in your sailing and to learn the most, get out and use your boat. Sailing is not rocket science, just mostly judgement on the weather and seas.
Keep the radar and learn to use it. Being an inexperienced sailor doesn't mean you should avoid instruments that will help you figure out the situation. Information about what's around you can keep you calm rather than induce panic if you get closed in with fog. That allows you to do what is primary - CONTOL THE BOAT. Use the radar all the time and see what things look like, then when it crumps up, you will visualize your situation. Having information doesn't mean you won't learn to sail correctly. If you stay close in coastal cruising, the radar will really help you. You will be in a lot more traffic than one would be farther out to sea. Learn to use the MARPHA function and you can avoid close calls. Mast mount your radar - it works better because you have less ground clutter due to swells. The distance is much better the higher the radar. Good luck in your sailing and to learn the most, get out and use your boat. Sailing is not rocket science, just mostly judgement on the weather and seas.
Radar Antenna Height
There has been quite a bit of discussion about how high you should mount the radar antenna. I decided to use the Questus backstay mount which puts the antenna about 8 feet off the water. Some people think having the dome lower is actually better because you won't miss targets that are close. If the antenna is say 25 feet up on the mast, with a 5 degree beam width you won't get any returns that are within 500 feet (OK somebody tell me trig calculations are wrong) which might be critical in foggy conditions. With the backstay mount, I have no problem getting returns 12 miles away and I think that is sufficient to give me warning of approaching traffic. Having said all that, I am considering moving it off the backstay to a stern mounted pole. Just too much trouble having it on the backstay when you need to take down the mast or tune the rigging.
There has been quite a bit of discussion about how high you should mount the radar antenna. I decided to use the Questus backstay mount which puts the antenna about 8 feet off the water. Some people think having the dome lower is actually better because you won't miss targets that are close. If the antenna is say 25 feet up on the mast, with a 5 degree beam width you won't get any returns that are within 500 feet (OK somebody tell me trig calculations are wrong) which might be critical in foggy conditions. With the backstay mount, I have no problem getting returns 12 miles away and I think that is sufficient to give me warning of approaching traffic. Having said all that, I am considering moving it off the backstay to a stern mounted pole. Just too much trouble having it on the backstay when you need to take down the mast or tune the rigging.
Theory doesn't agree with practice!
My mast mounted 2KW will see targets within one boat length or less(36 feet). I do this regularly on Kentucky lake. While night sailing, I can easily see buoys within a boat length. Use my radar all the time. In this case, theory doesn't equate to actual results.
My mast mounted 2KW will see targets within one boat length or less(36 feet). I do this regularly on Kentucky lake. While night sailing, I can easily see buoys within a boat length. Use my radar all the time. In this case, theory doesn't equate to actual results.
Radar Mast Mount
Jerry, interesting about how close you can get returns. The other thing I've always wondered about mast mounted radar is don't you have a large blind spot behind you because of the mast?
Jerry, interesting about how close you can get returns. The other thing I've always wondered about mast mounted radar is don't you have a large blind spot behind you because of the mast?
Size of pole
Just to make sure, Bob's question was about the size of the pole and whether it was sufficient to handle the weight, in calm or rough weather. I've seen heavier wind generators mounted on such poles, so I have to believe they can handle 27lbs (and nothing moving, at least not as much, as a wind vane). A comment on being new to sailing - that doesn't necesarily mean new to boating. Many of us were exposed to power boating so we had some knowledge of radar and GPS but we could still ask simple questions about sailing.
Just to make sure, Bob's question was about the size of the pole and whether it was sufficient to handle the weight, in calm or rough weather. I've seen heavier wind generators mounted on such poles, so I have to believe they can handle 27lbs (and nothing moving, at least not as much, as a wind vane). A comment on being new to sailing - that doesn't necesarily mean new to boating. Many of us were exposed to power boating so we had some knowledge of radar and GPS but we could still ask simple questions about sailing.
GDAYII, Get your facts straight
Beam width is the horizontal (not vertical) width of the half power points of the radar beam. The vertical beam height is much greater - 25 degrees for the GMR-20. That is only the half power point. Actual target visibility is nearer to 70-80 degrees. In practice the closer targets give a better return and the reduced target distance far overcomes the reduced effective power at higher angles. The real limiting factor of minimum range detection is the transmitter pulse length and shape. In fact there is an STC (sensitivity time control) circuit to reduce the receiver sensitivity at close ranges. It is a common misconception that mast mounted radar will not see close in. It will actually see closer targets than a pole mounted unit. Another common misconception is that the mast blocks targets from the rear. That is not true as well. The actual antenna is much wider than the mast. There may be a slight reduction in sensitivity but you will still see targets behind the mast. Put your nose up next to a proportionally smaller pole and you can still see around it. There are a number of factors which distort the display. They will be different for different situations so it is very important to actually try identifying targets in good weather so that you know what to expect. Just my a**hole opinion so ignore it if you wish. Practice will overcome inexperience but not ignorance of the true facts and bullheaded stupidity.
Beam width is the horizontal (not vertical) width of the half power points of the radar beam. The vertical beam height is much greater - 25 degrees for the GMR-20. That is only the half power point. Actual target visibility is nearer to 70-80 degrees. In practice the closer targets give a better return and the reduced target distance far overcomes the reduced effective power at higher angles. The real limiting factor of minimum range detection is the transmitter pulse length and shape. In fact there is an STC (sensitivity time control) circuit to reduce the receiver sensitivity at close ranges. It is a common misconception that mast mounted radar will not see close in. It will actually see closer targets than a pole mounted unit. Another common misconception is that the mast blocks targets from the rear. That is not true as well. The actual antenna is much wider than the mast. There may be a slight reduction in sensitivity but you will still see targets behind the mast. Put your nose up next to a proportionally smaller pole and you can still see around it. There are a number of factors which distort the display. They will be different for different situations so it is very important to actually try identifying targets in good weather so that you know what to expect. Just my a**hole opinion so ignore it if you wish. Practice will overcome inexperience but not ignorance of the true facts and bullheaded stupidity.
No, Taylor
I think he was referring to me. I wouldn't worry too much about someone who cannot spell jerk or for that matter someone who confuses a**holes with jerks. You are not deserving of being called a gerk. I, on the other hand, am a highly qualified a**hole. I do not know why this topic is sooo exciting. We just had a similar exchange with the same misinformation (complete with an incorrect drawing) a month or two ago. I guess that some people do not like to have their misconceptions pointed out. Some are just ignorant and a few prefer to remain that way. You might want to see my post on the angst section called anger management.
I think he was referring to me. I wouldn't worry too much about someone who cannot spell jerk or for that matter someone who confuses a**holes with jerks. You are not deserving of being called a gerk. I, on the other hand, am a highly qualified a**hole. I do not know why this topic is sooo exciting. We just had a similar exchange with the same misinformation (complete with an incorrect drawing) a month or two ago. I guess that some people do not like to have their misconceptions pointed out. Some are just ignorant and a few prefer to remain that way. You might want to see my post on the angst section called anger management.
No Patrick and Taylor!!
If you start at the beginning and reread the entire thread you will see that "gerk" was directed at Mortyd. And if my experience counts, I am new to radar but 25 years of sailing experience and I am doing just what others have stated; use it when I don't need it so that I am comfortable with it.
If you start at the beginning and reread the entire thread you will see that "gerk" was directed at Mortyd. And if my experience counts, I am new to radar but 25 years of sailing experience and I am doing just what others have stated; use it when I don't need it so that I am comfortable with it.
How can anyone blame someone for buying safety
euqiptment is beyond me. Yes, take your sailing lessons, but keep your radar/plotter and learn how to use it because you will need it someday....don't send it back. Or you can take others advice and send it back....maybe get rid of all your required safety equiptment. You do know how to swimm don't you? Enjoy sailing, enjoy your radar, and be safe abe
euqiptment is beyond me. Yes, take your sailing lessons, but keep your radar/plotter and learn how to use it because you will need it someday....don't send it back. Or you can take others advice and send it back....maybe get rid of all your required safety equiptment. You do know how to swimm don't you? Enjoy sailing, enjoy your radar, and be safe abe
radar
abe is correct and i am wrong - sorry. you bought the safety equipment, so now is the time to cast off. don't forget to bring your receipts.
abe is correct and i am wrong - sorry. you bought the safety equipment, so now is the time to cast off. don't forget to bring your receipts.
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