FYI your GPS

[Alan]

Although boaters view the Federal Communications Commission's recent vote to revoke approval of a new broadband telephone network shown to interfere with the country’s sole navigational system as positive news, BoatUS said, "We aren't out of the woods just yet."

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The association is urging boat owners to continue to submit comments to the FCC by a Thursday deadline to ensure that the nation’s system of global positioning devices keeps boaters safely on course.
Last summer, more than 18,000 boaters, along with many other GPS users, wrote the FCC, asking it to stop plans by LightSquared, the builder of the proposed broadband network, until independent tests proved there would be no interference with GPS devices, which operate on adjacent frequencies.
“Despite the great news … that the FCC has acknowledged interference issues with the LightSquared proposal, we’re not ready to declare a victory,” BoatUS president Margaret Podlich said in a statement. “Given this company’s tenacity over the last year, we want to make sure that boaters’ needs are remembered as the FCC makes their final decision.”
Here is how to file comments to the FCC through their online comment form:
1. Click on this link for the FCC’s Electronic Comments Filing System.
2. Select “Proceeding Number 11-109.”
3. Enter contact information.
4. In the box that says “Type in or paste your brief comments,” here’s some points to select from:
* Explain how you use GPS in your life — on the water, on land or in the air.
* What would happen to your business/personal life if GPS became unavailable or unreliable?
* Wireless broadband service is important, but it should not come at the expense of GPS.
* All of the studies show that LightSquared’s proposed network would cause interference and that there are no remedies.
5. Click “Continue.”
6. If the review page is correct, click “Confirm.”
If you have any trouble, you can contact the FCC ECFS Helpdesk at (202) 418-0193 or e-mail ecfshelp@fcc.gov.

 

[Squidd]

GPS is Military based and will not be interfered with..

 

[Alan]

Would that you were right, but they WERE granted approval. Only after an overwhelming flurry of complaints did the FCC change its ruling. But this company will not give up if they can find a way to get their agenda passed. Just thought that this info would be of importance to us.

 

[Ross]

I don't know if it is relavent but the CEO of Light Squared resigned today according to CNBC reports.

 

[Bill Roosa]

while your facts are correct Squidd, we live in a capitilist based system and last I checked the military can't bribe as well as corporate america.
AND
the guys in the military have a bad habbit of wanting a job when they get out and what better way than to "OK the use of adjacent bands......" for use by commercial enterprises. We HAVE seen this before with Boeing and others. Bet they would make you the VP of some division for handing that one to them.
Follow the money, right now LightSquared "says" they are out of money. i'm not buying that for a moment. with something like 9Billion on the line this is not the end of the story.

 

[KD3PC]

actually it gets worse:

http://news.yahoo.com/lightsquared-...ations-company-proximity-obama-184316230.html

not that many of us are surprised as to how this started in the first place..

 

[Forrest15112]

The problem is the cheap, poor receivers used in most common GPS receivers. The military would not likely see much interference from Lightsquared due to higher performance receivers. From what I've read, the GPS manufacturers were complaining of noise floor increases of as little as 1dB. The band that Lightsquared was granted, was initially designed for space-based communications with some terrestial support. Lightsquared wants to reverse that and use mostly terrestial based transmissions and some space based support.
Lightsquared's plan was to roll out an LTE data network. One, if not the most crucial, element of LTE, and any other mobile data system, is timing. The packets of data need to line up. This is always accomplished using GPS. In other words, the Lightsquared sites will use GPS for timing. If they are producing so much interference, how do they receive GPS at the same location? They use high quality GPS receivers that have some selectibility and aren't degraded so much by a dB or two of noise.
At this point, the cat is already out of the bag and there are probably millions of cheap receivers out there. I think the FCC could demand the GPS manufacturers improve the receivers out there and give a date of maybe 5-10 years down the road where Lightsquared or someone else would eventually be allowed to operate. Seems fair to me.

 

[KD3PC]

The problem is the cheap, poor receivers used in most common GPS receivers.

Seems fair to me.

The problem is NOT the receivers, they work as designed to use the satellite system...the band width on either side of the current GPS allocation is (and has been for decades) for SATELLITE ONLY (ie LOW power) just to keep everything playing well together.

Falcone and Company bought the spectrum with the sole purpose of gaming the administration to change the rules - for them, and them alone - and for some time seemed to have done so...except for the small task of playing well with others. But any one with a year of science know that you can not put 60-100 watt transmitters in this space and expect existing (1.5 watt) transponders to be heard, correctly.

Seems corrupt and rotten to the core to me. Fair??? Not even close to fair.

Get real, the politics of this deal are just now coming to light. But with this president, this is all business as usual....no matter the outcome or the nation.

 

[Gunni]

....................
Falcone and Company bought the spectrum with the sole purpose of gaming the administration to change the rules - for them, and them alone - and for some time seemed to have done so...except for the small task of playing well with others. But any one with a year of science know that you can not put 60-100 watt transmitters in this space and expect existing (1.5 watt) transponders to be heard, correctly.

Seems corrupt and rotten to the core to me. Fair??? Not even close to fair.

Get real, the politics of this deal are just now coming to light. But with this president, this is all business as usual....no matter the outcome or the nation.

Oh, give me a break. Welcome to the sausage factory. For over a year Falcone and his head geek Ahuja have been pimping this vaporous get-rich-quick communications gambit looking for investors in the Next-Big-Thing. You need to decide if you oppose Burdensome Regulatory Oversight or the Unrestrained Rights of Corporations, because the system worked. The FCC granted interim approval to LightSquared, and put science / engineering in the driver seat regarding the go-ahead. You know, get government out of the way of business. For over a year anyone paying attention (investors) have known that NTIA, NOAA and a host of DoD stakeholders were opposed. This thing was doomed, barring a testing miracle. It was only a matter of time, and now we have it - the FCC revoked approval. Game over. The system worked fine.

 

[Joe]

What is it that compels people to take a shot at the president for every freaking little thing that happens in this country? How naieve.

 

[KD3PC]

What is it that compels people to take a shot at the president for every freaking little thing that happens in this country? How naieve.

This "decision" is one of several where the FCC Chairman, appointed by Obama in early 2009, ignored the science and allowed politics to drive those decisions....

not much of a stretch for the learned amongst us to see the connection...

And were this the ONLY "little thing" that has happened on his, and his cabinet's watch....you may have a point....but it isn't, nor is it a little thing to those of us who use GPS and understand HOW it works.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Seems to me that "science" won on this one. Nothing wrong with letting the process work, is there? How come the President doesn't get credit when the process turns out to work, and that the applicant was a fraud?

 

[Joe]

This "decision" is one of several where the FCC Chairman, appointed by Obama in early 2009, ignored the science and allowed politics to drive those decisions....

not much of a stretch for the learned amongst us to see the connection...

And were this the ONLY "little thing" that has happened on his, and his cabinet's watch....you may have a point....but it isn't, nor is it a little thing to those of us who use GPS and understand HOW it works.

Excuse me for treading in the elite, enlightened waters of those of you who use GPS and understand how it works...... As for the decision.... good for him.

Hey Stu....... good question!

 

[KD3PC]

the President doesn't get credit when the process turns out to work, and that the applicant was a fraud?

The "process" should have turned down the waiver and the meetings in the first place, years ago...on a "has no merit" basis

The "process" did not cancel the LightSquared application...the DOD did...

Obama gets credit only for the appointment of another politician, if Obama wants credit, he should come and SAY that the LS proposal/app is DENIED..

 

[Squidd]

So, the DOD cancled the application...

That's kinda what I said in the second post...

 

[Forrest15112]

The problem is NOT the receivers, they work as designed to use the satellite system...the band width on either side of the current GPS allocation is (and has been for decades) for SATELLITE ONLY (ie LOW power) just to keep everything playing well together.

Falcone and Company bought the spectrum with the sole purpose of gaming the administration to change the rules - for them, and them alone - and for some time seemed to have done so...except for the small task of playing well with others. But any one with a year of science know that you can not put 60-100 watt transmitters in this space and expect existing (1.5 watt) transponders to be heard, correctly.

Seems corrupt and rotten to the core to me. Fair??? Not even close to fair.

Get real, the politics of this deal are just now coming to light. But with this president, this is all business as usual....no matter the outcome or the nation.

I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, except that the receivers are poorly made. The adjacent bands are for space-based AND ground based. the intent wasn't in the manner being proposed by Lightsquared though. The fervor from the GPS industry raises some eyebrows as well. I haven't read much about this in a while, but i seem to recall the methods used to determine the harmful interference wasn't fully exposed and was also performed by industry insiders. That's not saying that it was done improperly, but raises doubt and gives the opposition something to point to and argue.

One year of science doesn't explain the entire interference issue, and 60 to 100 watt transmitters can indeed be put into service in an adjacent band. I don't know specifically what Lightsquared's plans are, but 60-100 watt transmitters isn't likely for an LTE network anyway. I'm not going to say interference is impossible, just preventable and manageable, and probably minimal.

I'm really going on memory of what I read a few months back and don't know all the in's and out's of this ( and really don't care to research it), but want to point out, that there are two sides to this story.

 

[Joe11688]

What is it that compels people to take a shot at the president for every freaking little thing that happens in this country? How naieve.

Joe, with all due respects, if you don't know the answer to that question by now you'll never know.

 

[kloudie1]

Like I said in post 3 of this other thread:
http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=138117

 

[Joe]

Joe, with all due respects, if you don't know the answer to that question by now you'll never know.

You are so right, trinkka........ I was just trying to keep the discussion out of the war room.