FYI Warning - Mac26x flips killing two children

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charles

Boat mission

Cherubini does not get it, our self appointed expert does not see the forest for the trees. I am a professional pilot, and for me the Mac 26x meets the specific mission requirements that I need from this boat. He only speaks as a sailor of displacement sailboats. I live on south Whidbey island in Washington state. I don't have access to moorage, ( I need a trailerable boat). We don't have much wind in the summer, ( I need a decent powerboat ). We have 8 foot tides so launching on our boat ramps can be tough, ( I need a boat that can launch in shallow water at times ). The Mac 26x fills these mission requirements like NO other boat. Does the boat have limitations? Of course, but I enjoy the hell out of it, follow safe procedure, and get tremendous utility out of this boat. In aircraft design these kind of tradeoffs are inherent in any aircraft. A yacht designer like Cherubini, is stuck in a displacement sailboat mindset, I think most Mac owners understand the tradeoffs of our boats and do not need self proclaimed experts stating the obvious!
 
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Jesse Harris

would like to purchase a used Mac. 26'x

Would like to purchase a 26' Mac X. Will travel anywhere in United States for good deal. Thanks, Jesse 828-698-3601
 
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Jesse Tate

Give Mr Cherubini the respect he deserves & listen

I don't own a Mac 26X but have owned several sailboats including catamarans, centerboards, fixed keels ranging in size from 16 to 34 feet. I am considering a Mac 26M (new model)because it offers the flexibilty I am looking for in trailering, power, interior space, etc. I have no idea how the boat sails as I have never sailed one. I know there will be trade-offs and as it is with all boats there are trade-offs from the least expensive trailerable to a Hinckley. I don't know Mr. Cherubini but I know he and his family have designed and built several successful sailboats over many years. They build quality boats that anyone would be proud to own and sail anywhere in the world. Respect that and listen to his comments. I think he was just trying to help, not attack. It was an unfortunate accident in which the two children were killed. As it is with all sailors if you are drunk at the wrong time or stupid too much of the time someone will probably get hurt or perhaps die. Thanks for your comments Mr. Cherubini. Jesse Tate
 
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Malcolm Palmer

More Than One Kind of Safety

When MacGregor talks safety, he talks about the boat staying afloat even when it is full of water. On the catalinaowners list, there was a recent note about a C-22 that filled with water and sank. If the two children had been on that boat, they might have drowned when the boat sank. Yes, keel boats are safer in some respects and water ballast boats that float are safer in other respects. Now, if we could just pick which accident we're going to have, we would know whether this was the day to take out the keel boat or vice versa. Right?
 
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Flip

Excellent stability

I was just sailing on Lake Ontario a couple of weeks ago. Sails reefed under moderate to heavy wind. A thunder storm kicked up and layed us on our side. I released the main sheet, my wife had to crawl on the edge of the seat to get to the jib sheet. As soon as she released it, the Mac came right back up. After that deminstration, I would sail this boat anywhere. Anyone who has ever been on a Mac sees the warnings, and as my son's bumper sticker says: "Stupidity should be Painfull".
 
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Jesse Tate

Flip's storm

Flip, You said "sails reefed" - define that for me, ie. 1st reef in the main, jib at 55%?????. Also, when the storm kicked up what speed wind do you think you were experiencing? After she righted herself did you continue to sail and under what sail plan did you use? I am a potential Mac 26X buyer who has never sailed a M 26X and is trying to figure the boat out. Any and all comments would be appreciated. Thanks, Jesse Tate e-mail relesha@aol.com if you want to do this direct
 
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Flip

Sudden gust

I was on the one reef point on the standard sail. I had taken down the genoa and put on the standard jib which was out about 1/3. The gust came and was gone in about 2 minutes. Hard to guess at the speed, but I have been out in 30kn without that much heal. It was probably due to me being close hauled just prior to the gust kicking up. We kept on sailing... But in the opposite direction, with tails between legs. Figured it was better to get to port than chance the storm any further.
 
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Steve

be responsible, know your vessel

So from reading both articles, it seems to me that if you are a responsible operator and you know your vessel this sort of accident is 100% preventable.
 
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Jim

Mike Re: Mac 25 and 26X

You indicated that I did not read what you said about the Mac 25. I am well aware of the type of keel it has. I owned an 84. I was talking about the 26X, which does not have an iron keel. I have a 98, which has holes in the keel, to allow water to enter for more ballast. Oh yes, I reviewed what I wrote, and what you wrote. And, despite your interpetation, your comments were not disputed.
 
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Saddened in Michigan

Healthy Fear!

As a Michigan resident for my entire life I have never been more than 20 miles from a body of water. My grandfather on the other hand grew up on the lakeless praries of Canada. I clearly remember the day he and I sat by Lake Huron and as we watched the waves roll in and I told him how much I love to swim, he looked at me seriously and said "Always have a healthy fear of the water" I still love the water, swimming, boating, fishing etc. however, I never forgot what he said.I'm amazed at how many foolish things people do on the water: Drinking, racing, basically screwing around and ignoring basic boating safety. It's no wonder so many drownings occur, they are regretable but in most cases avoidable. In most cases, operator error is usually the cause. If this gentleman did not own the boat, read the manual, review the capacity etc., he had no business piloting this boat or any other in fact. (Ballasted or fixed keel,day or night,power or sail, Drunk or Sober.) Pray for those childrens family!
 
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Ken Smith

knowledge

I've got a 99 26x and have rolled it 3 times. I've puished this boat beyond it limits on purpose to know what to expect. I put it over once when I had no ballast in with kids sitting on the bow, about 210 lbs, and sailing a full 150 jib only. The winds 6 mph, a 10 mph gust hit and slowly rolled us over. The boat kept on moving foward with the sail in the water. I released the sheet and it took the boat 6-8 sec. before it came back up on its own. This is an example of moving the ballast, the kids, to a position where it will become unstable. I knew what would happen and it did. The kids and I spoke about pushing the boat beyond its limits and I wanted to do this to show them that preperation of what will come can show you how to respond to it. If you never have done a MOB drill how can you expect anything but a bad outcome. We then talked about this roll and became more informed on what to expect next time. Fact, the boat is only as good as the operator..... Ken
 
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nick Taube

speed is all

I own a MacGregor 26x and wouldn't pretend it's the best boat in the world (quality a bit variable but basic design very sound). If I had more money I'd buy something bigger (though still keep the mac, see below). BUT, I have a lot of confidence in the boat. The main reason is that its unsinkable. A capsize is bad, a sinking is worse! I also believe that water ballast is inherently safe. The reason: badly maintained conventional yachts can lose their keels with catastrophic results, it can't happen with water ballast. I find the power and speed valuable. For safety, for sure. I sail the Solent, off the Needles and the tides are very strong. Having the ability to power through is important. A good sailor plans his days to use the tides and wind to his advantage, but I sail at Weekends! I have to be back at work on Monday, so knowing that I can go where I want, get back when I want in most conditions is what I need. If I could buy a 38 foot macgregor I would, but till then I'll have to stick with the 26x!
 
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Glenn in Fl

Just found out I knew this guy...

I was talking to a friend a few days ago only to find out that I knew the man responsible for this tradgedy. Turns out he was not the most savvory of charachters to begin with. He was arrested in Lebanon, NH for selling bad airplane parts as new or refurbished. We all have read the factors leading to the accident and it is truely a tradgic the outcome. Every boat is dangerous out there just as every car and every airplane. A deep respect must be taken anytime you take any apparant risk. Strick guidance to operate any equiptment in the performance parameters are a must. Substance abuse by the responsible party goes without warning. I would never bring myself or my family to board a boat where the skipper was drunk. This boat is a stable boat when operated properly. For the people that are bashing the boat feel free to sell your boat for pennies on the dollar. Last I heard they weren't done with him legally either!
 
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Helen Brunton

Nick Taube, Poole

Hi Nick! Interested to see your comment as we live on Hayling Island and are hoping to buy a mac26 at the London boatshow. Have been a bit alarmed at the negative response but there are 3 moored here in Hayling. We would be sailing similar waters to you, any advice?
 
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Kevin H

OLD NEWS---READ IT COMPLETE

Read the entire article before making up your closed mind. The skipper was a fault. 11 People on a Mac26X???? No water in the Ballast??? What kind of sailor would be that unsafe to any crew???
 
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MArk

Might have been worse...

Had this been a keel boat without positive floatation, the third child would have been lost too.
 
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A8A8A8

Agree and Disagree

Mr Cherubini. You obviously know boat design and I stand in agreemant with you that concentrated weight is better ballast than weight spread out over a larger area. However one factor you must consider is that the average sailboat of the same size weighs considerably more. Think about it. I just finished an article by Ernest and Jane Gunther atwww.MacGregor26X.Com/Explore/Alaska/part1.shtml This couple took the 26 from Bellingham WA to Juneau Alaska. AND BACK. Only One scary moment due to his deciding against his better judgement and tide knowledge but easily corrected with that fifty horse. Any sailboat of that size would have had the same difficulty in that situation too. Here is another point to consider. Keel boat or not when it comes to Open water safety can you really consider ANY boat (that IF capsized would sink), as Open Water Safe? Really? Or is it just a measure of some acceptable margin of saftey due to stability and what not? And decided by who? Personally, I don't see sense in that even in a fifty foot boat. For Open Water I'll take Unsinkabilty over stabilty hands down. Any boat can capsize. Period. I sail the 26X mostly out of Seward and Whittier here in Alaska and I haven't seen any thing in her that I'd worry or scare about. Is she going to have that same solid feel as a Deep Keel boat. Hell no. But a good versatile boat none the less. There is another site you should visit and I'll post it when I find it again but it has all the ratios possible to be worked out for the MacGregor 26X and compared to what (According to the EXPERTS) is a safe Passage maker boat. It bears out conclusively that the Mac26 was designed to be and is a Blue water boat. Period.
 
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A8A8A8

Agree and Disagree

Mr Cherubini. You obviously know boat design and I stand in agreemant with you that concentrated weight is better ballast than weight spread out over a larger area. However one factor you must consider is that the average sailboat of the same size weighs considerably more. Think about it. I just finished an article by Ernest and Jane Gunther atwww.MacGregor26X.Com/Explore/Alaska/part1.shtml This couple took the 26 from Bellingham WA to Juneau Alaska. AND BACK. Only One scary moment due to his deciding against his better judgement and tide knowledge but easily corrected with that fifty horse. Any sailboat of that size would have had the same difficulty in that situation too. Here is another point to consider. Keel boat or not when it comes to Open water safety can you really consider ANY boat (that IF capsized would sink), as Open Water Safe? Really? Or is it just a measure of some acceptable margin of saftey due to stability and what not? And decided by who? Personally, I don't see sense in that even in a fifty foot boat. For Open Water I'll take Unsinkabilty over stabilty hands down. Any boat can capsize. Period. I sail the 26X mostly out of Seward and Whittier here in Alaska and I haven't seen any thing in her that I'd worry or scare about. Is she going to have that same solid feel as a Deep Keel boat. Hell no. But a good versatile boat none the less. There is another site you should visit and I'll post it when I find it again but it has all the ratios possible to be worked out for the MacGregor 26X and compared to what (According to the EXPERTS) is a safe Passage maker boat. It bears out conclusively that the Mac26 was designed to be and is a Blue water boat. Period.
 
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Bob Cardoza

Centerboard Lift

Flipping a Max 26x is easy with the motor at plaining speeds with any slight turns or rolling seas. Our CenterBoard acts as an airplane wing, the faster the water passing it the stronger the force. While sailing close hauled at a good clip the lifting force works against slippage and helps her track. When motoring this force is not present and the centerboard will eventually begin to lift one direction or another. At low speeds I believe the factory call is squirrelly. At high speeds it seems like a barrell roll. If there is no ballast and added weight aloft, the boat will loose it's righting movement quicker. I've read this several times from different sources. It's all starts with forgetting to lift the Centerboard and/or Rudders while motoring at speeds > 10. And this can happen with ballast as well. It's not that the boat is a bad boat. It just needs to be respected like the big overgrown centerboard daysailer that it is.
 
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Bob Cardoza

Centerboard Lift

Flipping a Max 26x is easy with the motor at plaining speeds with any slight turns or rolling seas. Our CenterBoard acts as an airplane wing, the faster the water passing it the stronger the force. While sailing close hauled at a good clip the lifting force works against slippage and helps her track. When motoring this force is not present and the centerboard will eventually begin to lift one direction or another. At low speeds I believe the factory call is squirrelly. At high speeds it seems like a barrell roll. If there is no ballast and added weight aloft, the boat will loose it's righting movement quicker. I've read this several times from different sources. It's all starts with forgetting to lift the Centerboard and/or Rudders while motoring at speeds > 10. And this can happen with ballast as well. It's not that the boat is a bad boat. It just needs to be respected like the big overgrown centerboard daysailer that it is.
 
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