My wife and I recently returned from Maine where we fell in love with sailing. I've read a couple of books and of course been on virtually every sailing website, but I wanted to get some opinions from actual consumers of sailboats. I'm probably looking for something used and something in the 5-10 thousand dollor range. I want a boat that I can learn on, but not one that I'll feel like I need to upgrade in a year or two. I've looked at some Hunters, but unfortunately I've heard some bad things about them. Any suggestions?
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Richard Marble
About Boats
I started on a Catalina 22, This boat has a pop-top so that you can raise the cabin roof in the evening so that you have standing head room. It also has a swing keel can be hauled on a trailer, you can save about $1,200.00 not storing it at a boat yard someplace. There is a book you can buy titled Sailing big on a small boat you might want to read. Now for the drawbacks. I found this boat sailed more like a dingy than a sail boat. In other words too light a keel. It was not set up to reef the main easily and could be over powered by the wind. I bought a storm jib for mine and added some stuff so I could reef the main quicker. I sold it last year and now own a 1981 Hunter 27 that I am putting money into so I have what I want. Larger diesel, varnished interior, anchor roller on the bow for a plow anchor etc. Now for my question what have you heard bad about a Hunter. My boat appears to be well made solid with heavy displacement. I love the amount of room inside and am planning on doing some extensive cruising in it in a couple of years.
I started on a Catalina 22, This boat has a pop-top so that you can raise the cabin roof in the evening so that you have standing head room. It also has a swing keel can be hauled on a trailer, you can save about $1,200.00 not storing it at a boat yard someplace. There is a book you can buy titled Sailing big on a small boat you might want to read. Now for the drawbacks. I found this boat sailed more like a dingy than a sail boat. In other words too light a keel. It was not set up to reef the main easily and could be over powered by the wind. I bought a storm jib for mine and added some stuff so I could reef the main quicker. I sold it last year and now own a 1981 Hunter 27 that I am putting money into so I have what I want. Larger diesel, varnished interior, anchor roller on the bow for a plow anchor etc. Now for my question what have you heard bad about a Hunter. My boat appears to be well made solid with heavy displacement. I love the amount of room inside and am planning on doing some extensive cruising in it in a couple of years.
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tom b. c-22
you'll hear something bad about em all actually
i have a catalina 22ft'r..my first, heard some bad, heard more good.it's on a trailer and have no problem towing. mine was used so of course i need to do some work,, but i dont mind doing it.it costs me 900 and i'll probably spend close to 1000 to 1500 by the time im all done. i mean everything it needs, and what i want to put on it..but again thats me..and i can't wait til im done..it's been a blast so far. And I've been lucky cuz everything can be fixed or replaced that i want to do.. U have to be careful that u dont buy something that a boat manufacturer cant replace for some reason. ie:swing keel..big bucks if that has be replaced and not repaired. but hey if you have the money.. you shouldnt be lookin at the work i am. Mainly,take your time looking.there's alot of boats out there.also there's alot of crap out there..amazing what some people were trying to get me to buy, cuz of my ignorance,but, i also knew i could wait so, i lucked out. find what you mite like,take what others say,but don't listen to what they say about certain makes being bad.. are they bad or is it just an opinion...if i had listened to everyone tellin me what was bad about a certain boat..i'd never would've bought one. anyways ... fair winds everyone...
i have a catalina 22ft'r..my first, heard some bad, heard more good.it's on a trailer and have no problem towing. mine was used so of course i need to do some work,, but i dont mind doing it.it costs me 900 and i'll probably spend close to 1000 to 1500 by the time im all done. i mean everything it needs, and what i want to put on it..but again thats me..and i can't wait til im done..it's been a blast so far. And I've been lucky cuz everything can be fixed or replaced that i want to do.. U have to be careful that u dont buy something that a boat manufacturer cant replace for some reason. ie:swing keel..big bucks if that has be replaced and not repaired. but hey if you have the money.. you shouldnt be lookin at the work i am. Mainly,take your time looking.there's alot of boats out there.also there's alot of crap out there..amazing what some people were trying to get me to buy, cuz of my ignorance,but, i also knew i could wait so, i lucked out. find what you mite like,take what others say,but don't listen to what they say about certain makes being bad.. are they bad or is it just an opinion...if i had listened to everyone tellin me what was bad about a certain boat..i'd never would've bought one. anyways ... fair winds everyone...
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Bryan Pfaffenberger
The right boat is... well, the right boat for YOU
I suspect I'm one of very few people who has actually owned a Catalina (1988 C34), Beneteau (2000 331), AND a Hunter (1989 30G)-- so my statements here are more than mere hearsay. A production boat is a production boat, period. From the late 1980s to the present, there are NO significant quality differences among them. My current boat -- a 1989 30-ft Hunter -- is my favorite, but NOT because it's a Hunter. I finally figured out how to buy a boat that was perfect FOR ME -- my budget, my sailing habits, my spouse's needs, etc. It's a fantastic light air boat (great for Chesapeake), fun to sail, roomy below, inexpensive (relatively) to maintain. To select the right boat, you need to carefully consider how you will sail, how often you will sail, how many crew, whether you will use the boat for day-sailing only or would like to go on occasional overnight cruises (or longer), etc. Where will you keep the boat? Please feel free to e-mail me directly if you'd like to discuss this -- I like to see people get started on the right foot! My address is p f a f f [ a t s i g n ] v i r g i n i a d o t e d u (retype the address - I've typed it this way so that it doesn't get picked up by automated spam robots, damn them)
I suspect I'm one of very few people who has actually owned a Catalina (1988 C34), Beneteau (2000 331), AND a Hunter (1989 30G)-- so my statements here are more than mere hearsay. A production boat is a production boat, period. From the late 1980s to the present, there are NO significant quality differences among them. My current boat -- a 1989 30-ft Hunter -- is my favorite, but NOT because it's a Hunter. I finally figured out how to buy a boat that was perfect FOR ME -- my budget, my sailing habits, my spouse's needs, etc. It's a fantastic light air boat (great for Chesapeake), fun to sail, roomy below, inexpensive (relatively) to maintain. To select the right boat, you need to carefully consider how you will sail, how often you will sail, how many crew, whether you will use the boat for day-sailing only or would like to go on occasional overnight cruises (or longer), etc. Where will you keep the boat? Please feel free to e-mail me directly if you'd like to discuss this -- I like to see people get started on the right foot! My address is p f a f f [ a t s i g n ] v i r g i n i a d o t e d u (retype the address - I've typed it this way so that it doesn't get picked up by automated spam robots, damn them)
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Greg Jones
I like mine
Hi Paul, I started with an O'Day 25. Liked it cause it was a manageble size for me-a novice. I could stand up inside it, I'm 5'8" and it was an inexpensive purchase so if I determined that sailing was'nt for me I would'nt lose a lot of $$$$. Turns out I liked sailing a lot and the next year a much newer O'Day 26 came on the market with a small inboard diesel, furling main and jib and all the other attributes I liked on the 25 only in better condition. I traded up, spent about $11k for the 26 and could'nt be happier w/ my choice. You will hear bad things about most boats in your price range, but most minor annoyances are no big deal and likely do not affect the sailing characteristics of the boat. (Unless of course the chainstays are about to pull free because the plywood they're attached to has melted into mush, but that's what a surveyor is for!) Shop around, look at lots of boats and take the plunge! Best Greg Jones
Hi Paul, I started with an O'Day 25. Liked it cause it was a manageble size for me-a novice. I could stand up inside it, I'm 5'8" and it was an inexpensive purchase so if I determined that sailing was'nt for me I would'nt lose a lot of $$$$. Turns out I liked sailing a lot and the next year a much newer O'Day 26 came on the market with a small inboard diesel, furling main and jib and all the other attributes I liked on the 25 only in better condition. I traded up, spent about $11k for the 26 and could'nt be happier w/ my choice. You will hear bad things about most boats in your price range, but most minor annoyances are no big deal and likely do not affect the sailing characteristics of the boat. (Unless of course the chainstays are about to pull free because the plywood they're attached to has melted into mush, but that's what a surveyor is for!) Shop around, look at lots of boats and take the plunge! Best Greg Jones
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Griffin
A Book Suggestion
Before you go any further on your quest I would pick up a book called Sensible Cruising and read it through, or at least the part about the best boat for you. Likewise, Nigel Calder's Cruising Handbook offers some really great suggestions and best of all...CHECKLISTS to help you look at boats. I would copy the lists and take them with you whenever you are going to go look at a boat. On a personal note...I had a 1979 30' Hunter that I cruised on for more than 3 years and loved her...hated to give her up, and she did me well thtough all kinds of 'stuff'. Oh yeah...welcome aboard! Griffin s/v Brighid's Crossing O'Day 34
Before you go any further on your quest I would pick up a book called Sensible Cruising and read it through, or at least the part about the best boat for you. Likewise, Nigel Calder's Cruising Handbook offers some really great suggestions and best of all...CHECKLISTS to help you look at boats. I would copy the lists and take them with you whenever you are going to go look at a boat. On a personal note...I had a 1979 30' Hunter that I cruised on for more than 3 years and loved her...hated to give her up, and she did me well thtough all kinds of 'stuff'. Oh yeah...welcome aboard! Griffin s/v Brighid's Crossing O'Day 34
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tom
consider the use carefully
there are so many boats that sit and turn green. For pure sailing fun it is hard to beat an unballasted daysailor. They are exciting!!! A lot of the larger boats are used as daysailers. We are looking to buy a 32' boat that has been used mostly for daysailing for the last several years. We plan to cruise... Keep it simple!!!! Learning to sail a basic boat is hard enough but if you throw in adjustable backstays and whisker poles not to mention keeping the diesal running it is too complicated. Did I mention expensive???? We had a macgregor 26 for 8 years. Lively in light winds and big enough to spend the weekend. All plastic so no maintenance!!!! I do not enjoy sanding and painting. Being all plastic we could use the water hose inside and out for cleaning. Being easily trailered I stored it in a barn for the winter if we took it out. A few winters we sailed all winter. But even with it's light weight it was work to launch and retrieve. A fixed keel boat would be even more work. A friend's boat requires a crane and a flat bed trailer. The last thing that you want is an expensive boat turning green sitting at an expensive marina or maybe you do want that but think about it first.
there are so many boats that sit and turn green. For pure sailing fun it is hard to beat an unballasted daysailor. They are exciting!!! A lot of the larger boats are used as daysailers. We are looking to buy a 32' boat that has been used mostly for daysailing for the last several years. We plan to cruise... Keep it simple!!!! Learning to sail a basic boat is hard enough but if you throw in adjustable backstays and whisker poles not to mention keeping the diesal running it is too complicated. Did I mention expensive???? We had a macgregor 26 for 8 years. Lively in light winds and big enough to spend the weekend. All plastic so no maintenance!!!! I do not enjoy sanding and painting. Being all plastic we could use the water hose inside and out for cleaning. Being easily trailered I stored it in a barn for the winter if we took it out. A few winters we sailed all winter. But even with it's light weight it was work to launch and retrieve. A fixed keel boat would be even more work. A friend's boat requires a crane and a flat bed trailer. The last thing that you want is an expensive boat turning green sitting at an expensive marina or maybe you do want that but think about it first.
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Les Murray
Look for something in the 24' - 27' range
Paul, I have been in sailing for only a few years now and really enjoy it. I recommend that size range (24 - 27), because they can usually be found with heads, galleys, and sometimes even an inboard diesel. Some boats that come to mind include San Juan 24, Catalina 25 and 27, Alberg, O'Day, and Pearson. Of course, there are plenty of others out there. Some things to think about are: 1) how many consecutive nights do you plan to sleep on the boat? 2) will you trailer the boat or moor it? 3) will you race or just cruise? 4) how handy are you at basic mechanics, electrical, woodworking, and fiberglass work? These questions become important as you look for older boats with lower price tags. Every boat is a compromise so figure out how you think you will use it and prioritize your needs vs. wants. Something to consider is to spend a few thousand now to get a small (<22') boat to learn on for a couple of years. Then, once you have figured out how you want to sail, move up to that 10K boat that will allow you to do it. I did that. Started with a little 20 footer, then after a couple of years, moved to a Catalina 36. Have fun in your endeavors and good luck. Les Murray s/v Ceilidh '86 C-36 #560
Paul, I have been in sailing for only a few years now and really enjoy it. I recommend that size range (24 - 27), because they can usually be found with heads, galleys, and sometimes even an inboard diesel. Some boats that come to mind include San Juan 24, Catalina 25 and 27, Alberg, O'Day, and Pearson. Of course, there are plenty of others out there. Some things to think about are: 1) how many consecutive nights do you plan to sleep on the boat? 2) will you trailer the boat or moor it? 3) will you race or just cruise? 4) how handy are you at basic mechanics, electrical, woodworking, and fiberglass work? These questions become important as you look for older boats with lower price tags. Every boat is a compromise so figure out how you think you will use it and prioritize your needs vs. wants. Something to consider is to spend a few thousand now to get a small (<22') boat to learn on for a couple of years. Then, once you have figured out how you want to sail, move up to that 10K boat that will allow you to do it. I did that. Started with a little 20 footer, then after a couple of years, moved to a Catalina 36. Have fun in your endeavors and good luck. Les Murray s/v Ceilidh '86 C-36 #560
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Bob
It's a buyer's market,
and you have the additional advantage that you're not in a big hurry. Offer to crew for other people, talk to them about their boats - what features they like, what they don't like, what they'd look for in their next boat. It's amazing what one year's experience will do for your ability to evaluate a boat. It's not unusual to run up on a real good deal if you can wait and look around. People with changing job or family situations, or health problems are often anxious to sell a boat they no longer can use and that costs them money every month.
and you have the additional advantage that you're not in a big hurry. Offer to crew for other people, talk to them about their boats - what features they like, what they don't like, what they'd look for in their next boat. It's amazing what one year's experience will do for your ability to evaluate a boat. It's not unusual to run up on a real good deal if you can wait and look around. People with changing job or family situations, or health problems are often anxious to sell a boat they no longer can use and that costs them money every month.
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Dave
All boats are Great!!!
You have to love all of them. everything from a boardsailer to the Eagle, power, sail, it doesn't matter, it gets your mind off your day to day problems by fixing everything that keeps breaking on them. Being preoccupied with your boat is the best therapy ever invented. Once in a while (very rarely) the weather is just right, the winds are blowing a steady 12 knots on the beam, there is a full moon with no clouds, seas are about 2 feet and the night cruise from Mystic to Newport is the greatest experience known to man. I sail an 11 foot home made dinghy and a 35 foot O'day, I also had a sunfish and a 25 Catalina. I've used lots of rowboats and canoes, and also have an inflatable. I've never met a boat I didn't like. Dave
You have to love all of them. everything from a boardsailer to the Eagle, power, sail, it doesn't matter, it gets your mind off your day to day problems by fixing everything that keeps breaking on them. Being preoccupied with your boat is the best therapy ever invented. Once in a while (very rarely) the weather is just right, the winds are blowing a steady 12 knots on the beam, there is a full moon with no clouds, seas are about 2 feet and the night cruise from Mystic to Newport is the greatest experience known to man. I sail an 11 foot home made dinghy and a 35 foot O'day, I also had a sunfish and a 25 Catalina. I've used lots of rowboats and canoes, and also have an inflatable. I've never met a boat I didn't like. Dave
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tom
all boats are great for some purpose
but not others. We now have two sea kayaks that we spend time on. They are great for paddling around for an afternoon. And better yet they are paid for and can sit in the garage indefinately at no cost... I had a laser and have a sailboard. They also can/have sat for years with little or no use. Even the Macgregor could sit for months with no apparent ill effect. BUT if a boat has a lot of wood etc it will mold. We have looked at several boats on the gulf coast where not only the outside was green but the inside was moldy. All of the wood covered anywhere that was damp. One actually caused an allergy attack. Diesel engines don't like to sit unused for long periods of time. But an outboard can sit a long time. I had a little outboard that sat for 10 years without being started. After a little messing around with the gummed up jet in the carberator it started right up.. A friends diesal siezed up and had to be replaced!!!! we have a lot of interests with sailing being one of many. We had visions of spending every weekend at the boat. School starts and ball games for the kids. The yard needs work we want to go hiking the kids want friends to sleep over. In reality most people especially familys have a lot of competition for their time. Did I mention work?? I've owned boats for 30 years. Unless you are wealthy you want a boat that you can enjoy and then forget about until time permits more enjoyment. I am also assuming that you want to sail. At several marinas over the years we have noticed that most people don't sail their boats very often. There are always people that are always working on their boats. They seem to enjoy that more than sailing. There was a guy with a perfect Catalina 22. He was at the dock regularly and his boat was always perfect. In two years I never saw him sail. On day with whitecaps and blue skies we asked if he was going out. No I can't sail alone. Do you want to come with us??? No I have some work to do on the boat,I'm installing lazy jacks. ^ hours later after a great sail we come back to the dock and he is still there. Honestly if I want something to work at I like lawn work!!! I made a nice fishpond and planted some fruit trees and grapevines. BUT I like to sail... We never just hang out at the dock. Within 15 minutes we usually have the sail covers off and are motoring out, usually the sails are up within 5 minutes of leaving the dock. When through sailing it's the same thing. The wife starts cleaning up and putting away as we sail in and once at the dock we tie up grab the stuff that goes and leave. I do most maintenance when the boat is out of the water for the winter. With an all plastic boat that is usually cleaning taking care of the batteries and a couple of coats of bottom paint....The tiller is the only thing that requires varnish. Envision how the boat will fit into your life. If it becomes a chore to take care of and a financial burben it may not be what you want. I have lust in my heart for a beautiful world cruiser and it makes me so sad to see a boat like a Southern Cross sitting on a lake and turning green. My imagination goes wild thinking of what I could do with that boat!!!! But the reality is that right now I have to work and have to fit sailing into a complicated life.Someday soon God Willing!!!!
but not others. We now have two sea kayaks that we spend time on. They are great for paddling around for an afternoon. And better yet they are paid for and can sit in the garage indefinately at no cost... I had a laser and have a sailboard. They also can/have sat for years with little or no use. Even the Macgregor could sit for months with no apparent ill effect. BUT if a boat has a lot of wood etc it will mold. We have looked at several boats on the gulf coast where not only the outside was green but the inside was moldy. All of the wood covered anywhere that was damp. One actually caused an allergy attack. Diesel engines don't like to sit unused for long periods of time. But an outboard can sit a long time. I had a little outboard that sat for 10 years without being started. After a little messing around with the gummed up jet in the carberator it started right up.. A friends diesal siezed up and had to be replaced!!!! we have a lot of interests with sailing being one of many. We had visions of spending every weekend at the boat. School starts and ball games for the kids. The yard needs work we want to go hiking the kids want friends to sleep over. In reality most people especially familys have a lot of competition for their time. Did I mention work?? I've owned boats for 30 years. Unless you are wealthy you want a boat that you can enjoy and then forget about until time permits more enjoyment. I am also assuming that you want to sail. At several marinas over the years we have noticed that most people don't sail their boats very often. There are always people that are always working on their boats. They seem to enjoy that more than sailing. There was a guy with a perfect Catalina 22. He was at the dock regularly and his boat was always perfect. In two years I never saw him sail. On day with whitecaps and blue skies we asked if he was going out. No I can't sail alone. Do you want to come with us??? No I have some work to do on the boat,I'm installing lazy jacks. ^ hours later after a great sail we come back to the dock and he is still there. Honestly if I want something to work at I like lawn work!!! I made a nice fishpond and planted some fruit trees and grapevines. BUT I like to sail... We never just hang out at the dock. Within 15 minutes we usually have the sail covers off and are motoring out, usually the sails are up within 5 minutes of leaving the dock. When through sailing it's the same thing. The wife starts cleaning up and putting away as we sail in and once at the dock we tie up grab the stuff that goes and leave. I do most maintenance when the boat is out of the water for the winter. With an all plastic boat that is usually cleaning taking care of the batteries and a couple of coats of bottom paint....The tiller is the only thing that requires varnish. Envision how the boat will fit into your life. If it becomes a chore to take care of and a financial burben it may not be what you want. I have lust in my heart for a beautiful world cruiser and it makes me so sad to see a boat like a Southern Cross sitting on a lake and turning green. My imagination goes wild thinking of what I could do with that boat!!!! But the reality is that right now I have to work and have to fit sailing into a complicated life.Someday soon God Willing!!!!
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Russell
Why spend $5,000?
You don't really say your intended use or sailing waters, so it's hard to give much of an opinion. With that caveat, there are a lot of older boats in the 20 to 25 foot size that can be had in good condition for well under $5,000. Ericson 23. Hunter 23. Catalina 22 and 25. O'day 23. Pearsons. Scads and scads more. Stay basic. Don't worry about the criticisms you've heard of the production builders -- those mostly concern their larger boats. I suspect you're planning on daysailng and weekending, so keep the systems simple. How often would you use a galley? Probably never -- you'll fix food at home and pack it in a cooler. If you buy a boat without a galley, and later decide you want to heat water or soup, it's easy enough to add a camp burner. Similarly, I would NOT look for an inboard engine in a boat this size. They're a lot of maintenance, and a 2-stroke outboard is plenty to get this size boat in and out of marinas. Any boat less than 26 feet or so that has standing headroom will have a distorted design for that purpose. Personally, I would avoid it. Find someone who knows how to look over the boat, and make them a friend. Keep the purchase price under $4,000, and put the other $6,000 into a boat account for future use. Just my two cents.
You don't really say your intended use or sailing waters, so it's hard to give much of an opinion. With that caveat, there are a lot of older boats in the 20 to 25 foot size that can be had in good condition for well under $5,000. Ericson 23. Hunter 23. Catalina 22 and 25. O'day 23. Pearsons. Scads and scads more. Stay basic. Don't worry about the criticisms you've heard of the production builders -- those mostly concern their larger boats. I suspect you're planning on daysailng and weekending, so keep the systems simple. How often would you use a galley? Probably never -- you'll fix food at home and pack it in a cooler. If you buy a boat without a galley, and later decide you want to heat water or soup, it's easy enough to add a camp burner. Similarly, I would NOT look for an inboard engine in a boat this size. They're a lot of maintenance, and a 2-stroke outboard is plenty to get this size boat in and out of marinas. Any boat less than 26 feet or so that has standing headroom will have a distorted design for that purpose. Personally, I would avoid it. Find someone who knows how to look over the boat, and make them a friend. Keep the purchase price under $4,000, and put the other $6,000 into a boat account for future use. Just my two cents.
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Augie Byllott
My first exposure to sailing was with a trailerable '82 MacGregor 25. It was a great learning experience and provided four years of pleasure in Great South Bay and the ocean waters off Long Island. Seeking more creature comforts, a '78 Catalina 30 came next. To that point, the greatest investment I ever made. Creature comforts got me again and now it's an '85 Irwin 38CC. Every sailor has a story that contains biases relating to his particular experiences. Every boat has a use and value to its owner. All vary. If I could have afforded it at the time, I'd have gone straight to the Irwin. The learning aspect is a combination of reading and practice; reading and practice; reading and practice, ad infinitum. As I read through message after message, it would seem that boat handling in fair weather and keeping a boat on a mooring present very few learning problems -- and that has been my experience. Most problems center around leaving and entering a slip. Skip the slip until you are sufficiently along the learning curve and have had plenty of experience maneuvering around a mooring. You can gain much knowledge about how your boat backs, fills, and maneuvers by using your mooring for a target. Be patient when you need to re-fuel. Do it on a weekday and wait for an "easy" spot to open at the fuel dock. If you are calm, cool, and composed, buy the largest boat you can afford that has many of the creature comforts you want. Sailing for you will be pure pleasure. If, on the other hand, you can recall ever having uttered the expression, "I can't deal with this!", forget the boat and think about something else. That's my 2¢ on the subject.
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Paul H
Paul, We started out by taking sailing lessons. We trained on a Hunter 29.5 and it was love at first sight. Unfortunately, the reality of parting with that kind of money up front was like a cold shower. So we decided to buy a smaller boat to see if we really would like it. We bought a H140. After a couple of years of sailing her we decided to go to a bigger boat and decided on an H26. I was hesitant at first about going this route because I read about all the maintenance envolved on bigger boats. Didn't know if I could or would want to put the time in. They(the people on these sites) gave me the confidence to take jump.We decided on this boat because I had done a lot of research,( mainly Hunters)liked what I saw and read plus it was the biggest boat they had without a deisel engine( wife can't stand the smell of the fumes and odor). Everybody has given you great advise. Research a lot, take different boats for a sail if you can, find out what all the plusses and minusses are BEFORE you buy. Doesn't make a difference if it's a Hunter,Catalina, Oday, etc.,etc. We fell in love with ours. We also found that sailors are always willing to help you with their experience whether you have the same boat as theirs or not. Great group of people!! Oh by the way, just sold our H140. Hated to see her go. Watching her being towed off it felt like I was losing a part of my family. Paul H S/V Linda Belle 95 H26
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