Fuses!! Help!
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From the 1977 manual available online:
"The switch panel on boats ordered with electrical systems is fused; each circuit has a 15 Amp fuse under a screw cover."
The fuses are most likely the standard old fashioned glass fuses 1/4" x 1-1/4" that used to be commonly used on vehicles and is still available from some car parts stores. The ones on my boat are that size and amperage.
As an example:
http://www.powersportparts.net/BUSSMAN-FUSES-5-PK-BUSS-AGC-15-BP-AGC-15-p/56-3234.htm
"The switch panel on boats ordered with electrical systems is fused; each circuit has a 15 Amp fuse under a screw cover."
The fuses are most likely the standard old fashioned glass fuses 1/4" x 1-1/4" that used to be commonly used on vehicles and is still available from some car parts stores. The ones on my boat are that size and amperage.
As an example:
http://www.powersportparts.net/BUSSMAN-FUSES-5-PK-BUSS-AGC-15-BP-AGC-15-p/56-3234.htm
I did myself a favor and upgraded to a fuseless electrical panel from CD. Easy to install, allows for 8 circuits. Mine runs:
Running Lights Line for VHF radio
Mast Light Line for GPS
Cabin Lights Line for Depth Sounder
Anchor Light Line for 12 V DC power outlet
Did I mention, NO FUSES!
Running Lights Line for VHF radio
Mast Light Line for GPS
Cabin Lights Line for Depth Sounder
Anchor Light Line for 12 V DC power outlet
Did I mention, NO FUSES!
Those black button things to the right of your switches are fuse holders. If there are no fuses in them, your lights or whatever the switches are hooked up to will not work, unless someone rewired them to bypass the fuses, which is not a good idea. If those fuse holders are bad, they re easily replaced. They take the normal SAE fuses and any good marine store will have them in stock. One guy mentioned no fuses. Well, then I hope he has breakers. You need to have fuses or breakers, but you can't have things hard wired directly and bypass fuses or breakers. Fuses or breakers protect the wiring, lights, motors, etc. from overload damage, shorts, lightning, etc.
Yah I was just needing to know what amp fuses to put in the fuse holders (the little black nobs) some other sites to me 15 amp will do just fine I will prolly install a new panel next summer but I still sail in the winter so I will just throw in the 15's
I should have mentioned, the new circuit panel from Catalina Direct does indeed have circuit breakers.
I'd suggest labeling all of your wiring before disconnecting the old board and checking for the> C22 wiring diagram < that is online.
If you understand some basics about 12v circuits such as this one
and something about elec. soldering, you'd probably be fine.
Circuit breakers are better as long as the circuit breakers don't go bad. I had one of my 220 line breakers in my house go bad recently and replacing it cost a lot more than a simple fuse. If one of these fuses go bad or a circuit breaker trips , it's more than likely a wiring issue or something that you did when you were messing with the wiring. I'm not sure why your boat had no fuses in it. That's just weird. So, beware of the wiring.
A good reason for replacing the panel is that the old switches are toggles and the new panel are rockers. <rockers less likely to be broken in the tight cabin. But the new panel is like $150 and a few hours of work (If you are sure of yourself) vs ~$5 for a pack of 15a fuses. There appears to be only two breakers on the new panel. CD part # Z2789 . I'd miss the individual circuit fuses that would help to isolate any issue. So, I have mixed feelings about changing the panel that still works just fine. IF I had an old style 22 where the panel is in a higher traffic area, I'd more readily change it though.
If you understand some basics about 12v circuits such as this one
and something about elec. soldering, you'd probably be fine.
Circuit breakers are better as long as the circuit breakers don't go bad. I had one of my 220 line breakers in my house go bad recently and replacing it cost a lot more than a simple fuse. If one of these fuses go bad or a circuit breaker trips , it's more than likely a wiring issue or something that you did when you were messing with the wiring. I'm not sure why your boat had no fuses in it. That's just weird. So, beware of the wiring.
A good reason for replacing the panel is that the old switches are toggles and the new panel are rockers. <rockers less likely to be broken in the tight cabin. But the new panel is like $150 and a few hours of work (If you are sure of yourself) vs ~$5 for a pack of 15a fuses. There appears to be only two breakers on the new panel. CD part # Z2789 . I'd miss the individual circuit fuses that would help to isolate any issue. So, I have mixed feelings about changing the panel that still works just fine. IF I had an old style 22 where the panel is in a higher traffic area, I'd more readily change it though.
Yah it is a 76 so the panel is right where u step down I don't really like it there and I messaged the guy who had the boat before and he took all the fuses out cuz he was just going to put new ones in but I bought the boat before he got around to buying new ones but I think next summer I am going to work on moving that panel to a place where it won't get stepped on a lot and mostly go with a new panel next year just a little upgrade
Replacing the panel is not a difficult job at all. Instructions are included. I don't know about "relocating" the panel as it is in a pretty convenient spot for the existing wiring. Also, you will either have an old panel with no connections or a hole or some type of patch. Good luck with the project.
Sure if something is broke it is time to repair it
I was asking this same question a while back -- what amp fuses does one use in a 87 C-22. My recently bought boat came in excellent original condition -- including fuse panel -- question -- why would I want to butcher up an original boat -- if the parts are still in working condition ??? While out looking to buy a sailboat recently -- I saw many of these -- boats with things added -- holes cut in new places -- many were sloppy and only took away from the value of the boat. Sure if something is broke it is time to repair it -- but -- if it works don't fix it !!!!! Mountainman
I was asking this same question a while back -- what amp fuses does one use in a 87 C-22. My recently bought boat came in excellent original condition -- including fuse panel -- question -- why would I want to butcher up an original boat -- if the parts are still in working condition ??? While out looking to buy a sailboat recently -- I saw many of these -- boats with things added -- holes cut in new places -- many were sloppy and only took away from the value of the boat. Sure if something is broke it is time to repair it -- but -- if it works don't fix it !!!!! Mountainman
good early morning to you Bilbo
good early morning to you Bilbo from southern Calif -- those 15A should handle just about anything -- after much searching around I decided to put 5A in the lighter circuits, anchor light, running lights ect and two 10A in for the short wave radio and depth finder -- all seems well -- so far -- happy sailing - from - Mountainman
Hi Mountainman, If you have stock lighting, like my Aquasignal lights, I have a Halogen deck light that is something like 20W / 1.5A. The rest are pretty much like old fashioned car brake lights in energy. I have changed my nav. lights to LEDs and they use about 1/10th the elec. that the old bulbs use. The newer LEDs are pretty bright....rated to 3 miles visibility. The only other thing that I use is a fishfinder and it's pretty efficient.
will be doing some night cruising sometime
good day to you Bilbo -- changing to the LEDs seems to be very smart thinking when it comes to battery voltage savings when battery is not being charged by a running motor with charging system -- I have always been pretty well pleased with old school lighting -- but -- I have now a LED flashlight -- I must admit I like it alot -- all lights except the mast lights are working on my boat -- with voltmeter I have voltage in the base plug but nothing lights up top -- boat is on a trailer -- I need to slide the mast back and hook up the wiring -- check outlets with voltmeter -- will be doing some night cruising sometime -- have a good day - Mountainman
Hi Mountainman, My thinking with the LEDs was that I could keep the required anchor light illuminated if I were to anchor the boat and camp out aboard.
I hope that you figure out the wiring issue, For my boat I had some troubles with the screw-force connections that are on the mast deck plug. (the male part). It is slightly broken as it's been kicked off the connection a few times but will still work.
I hope that you figure out the wiring issue, For my boat I had some troubles with the screw-force connections that are on the mast deck plug. (the male part). It is slightly broken as it's been kicked off the connection a few times but will still work.
Sorry if im diverting the original topic. But i recently replaced all my interior lights for leds that fit in the oem sockets and am very pleased.
My main reasoning is that i dont have an alternator on my new motor so every bit helps.
My main reasoning is that i dont have an alternator on my new motor so every bit helps.
Your original question asked "How do I determine fuse capacity?" The answer is that you determine how much power is available TO your panel, then decide how you wish to divide it among the circuits leaving your panel. A very simple example would be that a 12v infeed of 60 amps, could power four outgoing circuits of 15 amps each.
How do you know if 15 amp circuits are enough? You do addition. You decide which electrical devices you want to hook to any single circuit, then you find the specified electrical consumption for each and add them up. If the items you chose to wire to a single circuit add up to less than than 15 amps, you're good to go. Suppose you have a group of items that really should all hook to the same circuit because you want to activate them all on the same switch, but they add up to 19 amps? Well, you install a 20 amp fuse on that circuit and wire another for 10 amp fusing. Now you are serving your loads but still protecting your power source and its wiring from overload -they still add up to 60 amps.
It is useful to know that: voltage x amperage = wattage
amps = watts/volts
volts = watts/amps
So regardless how the power consumption is written, you can figure out the load in amps. You'll notice that an electrical accessory that runs on 120 volts requires much less amperage than if its run on 12v. Example: a 1500 watt microwave oven running on 120v yields 1500/120=12.5 amp load . But run that same oven on a 12v circuit and it needs 1500/12 = 125 amp load! Amperage is what determines the wire size (its the measure of resistance). So bigger wires are needed for 12v wiring than for 120v.
Some things to consider when wiring a panel are redundancy and practical use. It can make sense for example, to put some of your navigation and interior lighting on one circuit, and some on another. If a fuse goes, you won't lose all your nav lights and you won't be in the dark trying to replace the fuse. Redundancy can be complicated with our boats, because the fuse panel also functions as the on/off switch for many items. In the example above, you'd have to turn on two switches to get all the nav lights lit. You can also consider the practical use of your electronics. You likely aren't going to need the fish finder and the cabin lights at the same time, so wiring these to the same fuse will reduce the load on that circuit most of the time.
Another major consideration in 12v wiring is matching the wire gauge to the load. Low-voltage circuits lose power quickly due to resistance in the transmission wire. A circuit that travels the length of your boat or the height of your mast, can require heavier wire to run the same load than if it was five feet from the power source. I've attached a link to one version of a 12v wire gauge chart for reference (see below). Others are available on the web.
Finally, the wire from your battery to the panel must be able to carry the load of everything wired to the panel. Too little wire here will cause much of your battery's power to be used up creating heat in the in-feed wire. If the in-feed is way undersized (or the connections are corroded) you can create a dangerous level of heat.
Now after having said all that, the loads on our little boats are so mild that it's hard to overload a circuit. It's not impossible though, so if you have radios and instruments and other add-ons, take the time to figure and distribute loads correctly. Do it properly and your wiring will work reliably with little maintenance, outside of keeping corrosion cleaned up.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/amps-wire-gauge-d_730.
How do you know if 15 amp circuits are enough? You do addition. You decide which electrical devices you want to hook to any single circuit, then you find the specified electrical consumption for each and add them up. If the items you chose to wire to a single circuit add up to less than than 15 amps, you're good to go. Suppose you have a group of items that really should all hook to the same circuit because you want to activate them all on the same switch, but they add up to 19 amps? Well, you install a 20 amp fuse on that circuit and wire another for 10 amp fusing. Now you are serving your loads but still protecting your power source and its wiring from overload -they still add up to 60 amps.
It is useful to know that: voltage x amperage = wattage
amps = watts/volts
volts = watts/amps
So regardless how the power consumption is written, you can figure out the load in amps. You'll notice that an electrical accessory that runs on 120 volts requires much less amperage than if its run on 12v. Example: a 1500 watt microwave oven running on 120v yields 1500/120=12.5 amp load . But run that same oven on a 12v circuit and it needs 1500/12 = 125 amp load! Amperage is what determines the wire size (its the measure of resistance). So bigger wires are needed for 12v wiring than for 120v.
Some things to consider when wiring a panel are redundancy and practical use. It can make sense for example, to put some of your navigation and interior lighting on one circuit, and some on another. If a fuse goes, you won't lose all your nav lights and you won't be in the dark trying to replace the fuse. Redundancy can be complicated with our boats, because the fuse panel also functions as the on/off switch for many items. In the example above, you'd have to turn on two switches to get all the nav lights lit. You can also consider the practical use of your electronics. You likely aren't going to need the fish finder and the cabin lights at the same time, so wiring these to the same fuse will reduce the load on that circuit most of the time.
Another major consideration in 12v wiring is matching the wire gauge to the load. Low-voltage circuits lose power quickly due to resistance in the transmission wire. A circuit that travels the length of your boat or the height of your mast, can require heavier wire to run the same load than if it was five feet from the power source. I've attached a link to one version of a 12v wire gauge chart for reference (see below). Others are available on the web.
Finally, the wire from your battery to the panel must be able to carry the load of everything wired to the panel. Too little wire here will cause much of your battery's power to be used up creating heat in the in-feed wire. If the in-feed is way undersized (or the connections are corroded) you can create a dangerous level of heat.
Now after having said all that, the loads on our little boats are so mild that it's hard to overload a circuit. It's not impossible though, so if you have radios and instruments and other add-ons, take the time to figure and distribute loads correctly. Do it properly and your wiring will work reliably with little maintenance, outside of keeping corrosion cleaned up.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/amps-wire-gauge-d_730.
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