Furling Main Jam

[Pat Hooyman]

Our furling main jammed - it is a Selden mast with a Doyle vertical batten main on an H38. First it jammed at the leech of the sail about half way up the leech. Past that point it would not unfurl - the foot came out but the leech stuck at the top of one of the vertical battens and the sail was obviously bunched up at the leech. We were out in some fairly strong winds so after trying to unfurl it and furl a few feet back and forth to see if we could free it for an hour with no improvement we gave up and furled it completely (with difficulty) and headed to the dock.

In the slip after the wind died down we tried unfurling and cannot pull it out more than a few feet - the jam is severe - any advice?

 

[karmaf16]

Pat,
Been there, got that t-shirt... We have a H41DS and have had it jam on us a handful of times. The ONLY way to get it to clear is to shimmy up the mast to the point of the jam and pull out on the sail (by hand) directly perpendicular to the mast. Putting the sheet on the winch puts too much downward tension on the leech and it WON'T come out. With a direct perpendicular pull, it clears pretty easily with just one on guy on the pole and just working it out. During our last jam, we brought her home on a 20 kt broad reach for 4 hours and couldn't get it to clear that whole time.

So, what's the problem? For us, it's the longest baton. The pockets that it slides into allows it to enter the mast at an angle (foot first) thus asking the baton to "bend" around the mast as you reef in. Our fix was to re-rig the main by raising the topping lift until the first baton went into the mast EXACTLY parallel. As a wag, our boom is now about 8-10 inches above the roll bar, but we haven't had any more jams....yet. A distant second option is to remove the baton and no more problem that way either.

We never had any problem with the other two shorter batons but that first one has been a demon for us 5-6 times in 2 years. We just launched for 2009 so we are hoping for a trouble free year after the re-rigging.

 

[Brian L.20665]

We have a 2005 H41 with Selden mast and Doyle Zenith vertical batten main. After we first encountered jams when our boat was new, the head of our local Doyle loft offered to go sailing with us to give us specific instruction on how to manage that sail. We took him up on the offer. We have not had a jam since.

Follow karmaf16’s advice (although in our case, we never had to go up the mast to free it, we could always work it out from the deck.) If that still does not fix it, get a local sail loft or rigger out to your boat to help detangle the override. It’s worth it so you don’t run the risk of harming your main by doing something extreme.

If you don’t have it already, be sure to obtain from Doyle or your Hunter dealer a specific set of documents titled “Sailing with your Doyle Zenith Full Batten Furling Mainsail” and follow the instructions/pictures they contain EXACTLY. (That was the title in 2005). Includes pictures of how your battens should be positioned as they enter the mast. You can e-mail me for the docs too.

There’s a chance an out-of-tune rig may be causing your problem, but our experience (and others) points to furling/unfurling techniques being the fix.

 

[Pat Hooyman]

Guys

Thanks - I feel better knowing this happens to others - I am contacting a local rigger that supports Selden and will hopefully have them extract the sail before I break something.

I have the Selden instructions and try to follow them but I am not always successful - obviously.

Do you always head up wind when you are furling or can you reef while under sail?

 

[Jeff20919]

All,

We have a 2006 Hunter 45 Center Cockpit with the same set up, Selden furling mast with a Doyle Zenith main sail with vertical battens. For the firast year or two, NO problems, then it started. Basically the same problem, first (longest) batten entered mast at an angle. In our case we had to remove the battens (all 3) so we could pull down the main, and get it un-stuck. At first we thought it was the section on the batten where the top 3 to 4 feet is "carbon-fiber" rather than fiberglass, and this joint is taped together with rigging tape. Thought there was too much tape, thus preventing the batten from enter the mast slot. After re-taping then, we still had the problem. The trick as Karmaf16 and Brian state the top and bottom of the first batten must enter the slot parallel. I would like to know what the Doyle sail loft rep. told Brian, was if different from what they publish on the instruction sheet.

Jeff

 

[Brian L.20665]

Pat, that depends. I often reef “while under sail” and I’ve reefed without being head to wind, but it totally depends on conditions and point of sail. To reef, you have to get the wind pressure out of the sail first and that means easing the traveler/mainsheet if you are close-hauled, or head up. You can get away with reefing off the wind more easily if you are on a starboard tack vs. a port tack, because of the direction the sail rolls in to the furler. If it’s blowing hard, head up. To furl all the way in, we always head up, with the wind slightly over the starboard side.

Three main things I learned from my sail with the Doyle rep: 1) do not let the furler freewheel when unfurling. The furler (furling winch) needs to be held in check or braked, by keeping tension on the FURLING line while unfurling. If it freewheels, you are more likely to get a sail override or barber-poled batten inside the mast with this battened sail. 2) it's important to have a tight furl when furling in, so that there's no looseness in the furled main that might lead to an override the next time you unfurl. Tension the outhaul as you furl in. Enough tension that you need to use a winch (not just pull by hand) on the furling line until you get to the first (longest) batten, then you can pull the rest of the way by hand. 3) as you furl, make sure those battens are going in close to parallel to the mast as in the Doyle instructions. You do all this a few times and it becomes an easy routine. Just make sure your crew knows it all as well.

 

[Jeff20919]

Brian,

Thanks for sharing the points from the Doyle rep.

Jeff

 

[Gordon Taylor]

Looks like a few of us have been dealing with varying degrees of this problem. We also have the H38 with Selden mast and Doyle Vertical batten main.

Original instruction from our dealer was to pull on the "out" furling line at the same time as the outhaul. This occasionally resulted in folds of the sail starting to furl back into the mast the wrong way.

I found the original mast instructions http://www.seldenmast.com/_download.cfm?id=5564&download=8013095&filename=595-059-E.pdf and they recommend releasing both "in" and "out" furling lines so that the furling can run freely on unfurling. We do this now and really haven't had much difficulty since.

On furling I think we all agree it is essential to have battens parallel to the mast...but this can be easier said than done. We added a gas strut to our Selden rigid vang. I can now control the boom hight by adjusting the vang from the cabin top. I found it a pain to have to go forward to the mast to adjust the topping lift. The problem seems to be that there's a sweet spot between boom hight and the amount of out-haul tension needed to get the sail flat and battens parallel to the mast. We either pull the traveller to port or head off slightly to starboard for furling to keep the wind on the port side of the sail. And of course our various dodgers and biminis don't help seeing what's going on!

I got a contact at Selden from Hunter customer service and I was able to purchase the gas strut directly from them.

 

[Brian L.20665]

The instructions provided by Doyle for their Zenith vertical batten main can be found at
http://www.doylesails.com/sails-cruising-coastal-mains-zenith.htm

Like Gordon, we also added the optional gas piston to the Selden vang and that helps in positioning the boom. Also means you can dispense with the topping lift if you wish. The piston is a simple self-install but be prepared to spend a few hundred dollars. If you know your Hunter dealer well enough (or a rigging shop), convince them to get it for you at a discount. Selden willl sell it to you directly, but at list price.

 

[Gordon Taylor]

The instructions provided by Doyle for their Zenith vertical batten main can be found at
http://www.doylesails.com/sails-cruising-coastal-mains-zenith.htm

Like Gordon, we also added the optional gas piston to the Selden vang and that helps in positioning the boom. Also means you can dispense with the topping lift if you wish. The piston is a simple self-install but be prepared to spend a few hundred dollars. If you know your Hunter dealer well enough (or a rigging shop), convince them to get it for you at a discount. Selden willl sell it to you directly, but at list price.

Don't want to get too far off topic here but since we are on the subject of using the vang to control sail shape for furling.....be certain to check the vang position on your boom. Our vang as originally installed was bottomed out with the boom end quite high. Selden advise that it should not be possible to bottom out the rigid vang with the sail set. In our case it was and was impossible to get leech of the main to set correctly. Previous owners had resorted to overtightening the leech line resulting in an ugly hooked leech. The danger here is that continued cranking on the main sheet with the vang bottomed out could damage vang, boom or mast. I don't think it affects furling as I normally let the vang off to raise the boom end about 18 inches to get battens parallel to the mast. I did leave the topping lift set to just prevent blocks hitting the arch and take the mainsheet load when sail is furled and sheet pulled in to secure the boom leaving the vang unloaded.