Furling in mast

[gingerpenny]

In our search for a bigger, better boat, I am really attracted to the furling mainsail. Reasons are that here in the San Francisco bay, gusts can come up rather suddenly and it can be a real challenge to reef and it seems with the main furling out like a window shade, you can easily furl it in when the need arises. I especially like the idea of saving the 15 minutes it takes to flake the main and put on the sail cover. I am aware that the boat won't sail as fast because the sail is smaller but I am not concerned with that and I don't know if it would bother my husband to not be the fastest boat in his class.

I am worried about malfunction. Is it a big problem and have any of you had it malfunction and then, what do you do? Thanks in advance for your replies.

 

[capejt]

Pretty reliable

In the decade or so that I've been sailing my H33 with "behind the mast" furling, I've only experienced jamming on one occaision. Overall, I consider having the main on a roller furler as convenient (and desired) as having the genny on one. I've never noticed any loss of effeiciency in the sails, although I agree, if you really want to get into it, it would decrease by a little. Unless you're racing, its really not a concern.

 

[Steve Dion]

Capejt: I assume you have something like the CDI main furler. While this may be a little more reliable, we have had an experience with a Gibsea 43 with an in-mast furler that jammed when trying to deploy it.

The original thought was that the person that furled the main did NOT furl it tight enough. When we furled it for the day we were very precise about getting a tight wrap on it so we would not need to got through what we did that morning.

Needless to say, the next day was the same problem. It turned out that the sail had stretched and was jamming inside the mast. The owner needed to replace the sail to correct the problem.

While I agree that they are very kewl when they work properly, I am very turned off on the thought of ever considering having one on a boat.

I biggest concern would be if the furler jammed when furling the sail. This could be a dangerous situation that could be difficult to overcome.

We have many owners of all different mfg that will report no problems with their units, but I am just reporting my experience.

 

[kloudie1]

Consider the lazy jack type system .. or the "stack Pac" .. these don't help with reefing but make putting the sail away much better..

 

[Sailm8]

This is not a decision that can be made on a forum. You need to decide for yourself since what you will get are opinions. This is one of those hot button topics where everyone chimes in with their one time experience either good or bad. If you understand how the particular system you have works, keep it in good repair, they work fine. I have had hanked on sails jam, and mains jam on raising, battens snag on flaking systems, halyards get away and run up the mast, so what is the answer? There isn't any. You need to weight the pros and cons as you see them and make the choice that works for you.

From a marketing stand point I don't see that they would be so popular if they constantly jammed or broke,

 

[Alan]

Good for you for asking about this issue. It is for sure a hot button issue. There are many considerations before making your choice. Those who have it swear it's the best thing since sliced bread until there's a problem. More than a couple of skippers have reported issues with either furling or unfurling. In theory, for ease of operation the idea is a good one. But just try to imagine you're out for a sail and it's time to reef because some weather is headed your way. Ooops, the furling main is jammed. How on earth are you going to reduce sail with a jammed furler? Another consideration is the loss of sail controls. These controls are needed for proper sail shaping and trim. Furling mains give up many of these features.
It's your choice but going in with eyes open and making an informed derision is the right way. Personally I'll opt out.

 

[seadaddler]

Love Love Love It

I am sorry but I need to jump in and prays my Selden In-Mast Furling,I know most racers would not get it for sure and they are twiking every little thing they can get to add more speed to their boat and sails,I have heard of a few racing with inmast but not many.
The jamming problem only happens when furling in the sail and while doing so it and the person or persons helping are not making sure it is not going in nice and tight but instead they are allowing the sail to wrap around the drum loose causing a bulge in the sail and it is this loose bulgie sail trying to turn inside the mast,it's like a 110 lb women trying on a new dress and than this 200lb women trying on and she is screaming in the dressing room for help because she is stuck half in and half out of this dress.
So just like in a full batten sail if every thing is not right they are going to have troble hoisting the sail,many time there are sailors here having problems with thier main sail stuckhalf way up or half way down and won't budge in when rough weather is coming.
The in-mast has been around along time and I will bet with all the boaats that Hunter sell 9 out of 10 are inmast in the bigger boats 30 ft or more,yes maybe just like any older boats that have not been mantained properly they will have problems with all kinds of equipment.
I have 2007 H-36 and have inmast and never had a problem with 2 years in NY and now 3 seasons in Florida,I sail my Hunter many times with me doing most of the sail controling and find it so easy to do,I have learned all the tricks and know very well how to reef on the fly,so to me inmast is like when I got a new computer I was freaking out and now I do very well but I also know how to sail my boat way betterthan using my computer when things go crazy with it.
It's really very easy just like learning to sail I am still not a expert at sail triming with either a full batten main and inmast,some people are better at sailing than others like some racers some win and some lose.But any way if you are looking at older boats you need to make sure itis old good and if a newer inmast go for it and learn how to use it properly just like any thing we do in life,I now now let my wife read the instruction while I do the work its great.
Nick
The crew that helped me sail my H-36 from Montauk NY to Florida did not like in-mast iether when we started out and now they want to know when we are going to the Bahama's.

 

[Steve W]

I was talking to one of the Selden folks at a boat show about the "what do you do if" issue and after much back and forth with him saying they don't jam and my saying "never" is a term I never use in conjunction with anything on a boat ("Murphy" is always a crew member!) he finally allowed that if it every jammed, your only recourse would be to cut the outhaul and try to wrap the sail around the mast (which could be an interesting exercise in rough seas, high winds, not to mention dealing with the spreaders and shrouds!

If you want/need to go with a furling main, look for an in-boom system. The upcharge is about the same as an in-mast system but the beauty is if the "what if" actually happens, all you've got to do is drop (or cut) the halyard and let the sail dump on the deck or wrap it around the boom.

IMHO a much better system...

 

[Les]

I had a Hunter 380 for nine years with a furling main and jib and never had a problem with either. I've heard this argument several times, "what if the main jams?" so one time my wife and I went out and made believe the main had jammed. We let the outhaul go and just gathered the sail around the mast and tied it there. It wasn't difficult. My wife felt a lot better about the whole furling system so much that when we downsized to a Hunter 27 we both agreed that the furling main was essential to our new boat. I wouldn't have any boat today without a furling system for my sails.

Yes, I did study the boom furling system and have seen several up front. The problem with boom furling at the present is that you have no control over your outhaul. I've heard that North Sails is working on a system to take care of this problem. And one other thing, the two boom furling systems that I looked at seem to need more muscle to crank them then a in-mast system. But I did not have a side by side comparison but it is something to ponder.

I am now using my Hunter 27 with in mast main furling by myself and my WinchRite and the main goes in and out slick as anything. I'm in my late seventies.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Bang for the buck

For my money I'd not have one. If all you are concerned about is reefing then get a single line reef setup. Ours is standard and works from the cockpit. Drop the halyard slightly beyond the mark, tighten the reef line to the mark, tighten the halyard, done. Takes about 2 minutes. And we still have all the traditional sail controls.
As for the reliability of any furling/hoisting system, it is all about keeping up on the maintenance. However, only having my mainsail attached to my mast in two places and having a slit down the entire length of my mast are not what I'd call "robust solutions."

 

[Deadline]

I'm with Sailm8

You need to get on boats that have in-mast furling and take the reins. Yes, it can jam but usually due to sloppy furling. The trick to unjamming is to play with both reins to shake it out of the mast. Not a problem. And once you get the rhythm of furling and unfurling, you won't ever jam it.

As to speed, I upgraded my wimpy OEM 90% jib that came with H320 to a North 122, which helped power up. I later replaced the OEM main with a slightly lighter weight that enable the larger roach to roll up. Size is no longer a problem... for speed.

My sense is that roller-furling mains will add ten years to a skipper's run.

 

[gingerpenny]

Re: Love Love Love It

It is good to hear some positive feedback. I really favor the furling mainsail because my husband doesn't always reef when I would like him too. This would make it easier for us to control the sails. I also like the idea of not having to flake it and put the sail cover on.

 

[Mariner356]

I've owned two Hunter 410's. A 1998 and 2000....both with Selden in mast furling. Upon taking delivery of the used 1998 I found the furling connection to be striped on the top of the mast and after it was fixed I had no jamming while using that boat. I took delivery of my 2000 410 May 27th and traveled over 2,700 Nautical Miles on the Great Lakes until I hauled out Sept 21st. I single handed about 1,900 of those miles and never experienced any jamming throughout the entire summer. I could reel in the main sail while still sailing on the roller furled jib. One important procedure to eliminate jamming is to keep some drag on the sail when taking in. When the wind is higher.....above 18 to 25+ knots I would often pass the reel out line around a unused winch a couple times to help hold the line. The higher winds can often pull hard and make it difficult to hold otherwise. I can usually bring in the entire sail in 2 to 3 minutes. If the sail does seem like it's jamming a bit I usually tug both the in and out (circular) line and the sail seems to adjust itself within the mast and always came out properly. I would not advise using an electric motor on the winch to use with the main. I think you ( or a crew member) could really jam the sail using the electric motor because they couldn't "feel" how the sail going in or coming out. I don't believe I could have sailed 75% of those 1,900 miles single handed without a roller furled main. I used the Yanmar 50 only 25% of the time.