furler length v. headstay length

sailingdog · Feb 25, 2010

On many furlers, you can get a replacement foil section and lengthen it to fit your boat properly. I'd point out that the CDI units are really only marginal units, especially as you get over 26' LOA. They are not as robustly built as Furlex, Harken, ProFurl or Facnor.

JoeWhite · Feb 25, 2010

I second sailing dog

Manny · Feb 25, 2010

I'm not sure why the CDI furler would be considered "marginal". I have one on my 27' and the information I have puts it at 20 years old and it is still going strong. My boat is not exactly light displacement plus I have a good sized genny on the CDI and I don't have any problems with it at all. No jams, binding, or halyard wrap. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one if I ever had the need.
So anyway, to try and answer your question Scott, the only problem that I can see with the foil being a few inches to short is that the foil and drum may lift and ride up the forestay. It's probably not an issue in light winds but if caught in a blow, it would be difficult or impossible to furl if lifted.
My recommendation is to call the folks at CDI, I found them to be very helpful and they should be able to give you a definitive answer.

Manny

Hermit Scott · Feb 25, 2010

Manny said:
I'm not sure why the CDI furler would be considered "marginal". I have one on my 27' and the information I have puts it at 20 years old and it is still going strong. My boat is not exactly light displacement plus I have a good sized genny on the CDI and I don't have any problems with it at all. No jams, binding, or halyard wrap. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one if I ever had the need.
So anyway, to try and answer your question Scott, the only problem that I can see with the foil being a few inches to short is that the foil and drum may lift and ride up the forestay. It's probably not an issue in light winds but if caught in a blow, it would be difficult or impossible to furl if lifted.
My recommendation is to call the folks at CDI, I found them to be very helpful and they should be able to give you a definitive answer.

Manny

If you need to keep the furler down, I suggest using a plastic clamp above the furler directly on the stay. This will hold it down if it is a problem. If you don't mind me asking, what kind of deal are you looking at for the used furler. I just bought a new profurl for my boat and depending on the price you are getting could be a feasable option.

Sam Salter · Feb 27, 2010

The foil and drum will not ride up the forestay!
Drum is anchored to the forestay with a padeye below the drum which passes through the turnbuckle eyes.
I fit CDI furlers to new and used boats regularly. (Work part time in a marina) - we've never had one come back!
I've got a Profurl on my 26' C&C and yes it's much beefier. But the CDI's seem to work just fine.
Only problem is that you can't adjust draft position while sailing as there is no jib halyard to tension.
sam

Hermit Scott · Feb 27, 2010

For $200 I would definitely buy it and install it. If you feel you absolutley must upgrade later you could probably sell it and get your money back. But people that own CDIs are generally happy with them. As long as the boat is small enough that they don't need the bearing option, or they have the ones with a bearing. Boats of a certain size seem to require it to make the owners happy.

Ron20324 · Feb 28, 2010

scottr said:
"If after adjusting the lead block forward you still experience the furler lifting up off the bearing, add a piece of PVC tubing... prevent the system from rising up too much.

Sems likle it would be easier to secure the drum down to a fitting if possible?

sailingdog · Feb 28, 2010

Because of the design, you can't really secure the drum from below. This is one major reason I say that the CDI is only a marginal furler for boats >26' LOA. The fact that you have to essentially jury rig it to prevent it from self-destructing makes it marginal IMHO.

Ron20324 said:
Sems likle it would be easier to secure the drum down to a fitting if possible?

Sumner · Feb 28, 2010

Ron20324 said:
Seems like it would be easier to secure the drum down to a fitting if possible?

The bottom outside housing with the window in it for the line is secured to the turnbuckle and won't rise and it doesn't rotate. The drum with the line attached to it and with the extrusion above it rotates on the bearing in the bottom housing (the above part with the window). Like Dog said, since it rotates there is no way to hold it down :cry:.

We just got a CDI for our 26 foot MacGregor and I was going to pay extra for the ball bearing model, but the dealer talked me out of it even though he could of made more off of us. He doesn't like the bearings unless the boat it bigger, and I can't remember what length he said he would recommend the ball bearing model for, but think it was in the low 30 foot range, but I could be wrong. I could give his number to anyone that might be interested. Since we are in the dusty, dirty, windy, west I think this one is a better deal for us. Like he said, one less thing to service and take care of.

I was also prepared to spend $300-$400 hundred more for one of the higher priced furlers that he also sells, but he also talked me out of those and said the CDI was just fine for our boat. I know quite a few guys with CDI's on their Macs and no one has really said anything negative yet about them. I guess we will see if we also are happy.

c ya,

Sum

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Manny · Feb 28, 2010

Wow... really?

So not only are they marginal but now they self destruct???

Hermit Scott · Feb 28, 2010

Self destruct. lol
If you have a trailerable boat, don't you need a flexible furler?

sailingdog · Mar 1, 2010

IF the drum rises up because you didn't put the PVC tube in place, it can jam under a heavy load, like when you are trying to furl the sail in high winds, and then you do have a serious problem. While this isn't as much of an issue on smaller boats, once the boats get above 26' LOA or so, the headsails are big enough for this to be an issue. The fact that you are told by the factory that you can cut a PVC tube to fit the headstay says something about the quality of the engineering and design on the furler IMHO. I don't know of any other brand of furler that requires or even suggests this type of half-assed fix.

Manny said:
So not only are they marginal but now they self destruct???

Hermit Scott · Mar 1, 2010

sailingdog said:
IF the drum rises up because you didn't put the PVC tube in place, it can jam under a heavy load, like when you are trying to furl the sail in high winds, and then you do have a serious problem. While this isn't as much of an issue on smaller boats, once the boats get above 26' LOA or so, the headsails are big enough for this to be an issue. The fact that you are told by the factory that you can cut a PVC tube to fit the headstay says something about the quality of the engineering and design on the furler IMHO. I don't know of any other brand of furler that requires or even suggests this type of half-assed fix.

It's $200 half-assed or not, He doesn't have a lot riding on it. There are othere ways to fix it, I am sure the tech guy at CDI was giving him a simple solution that anyone can do. At least the tech didn't include a wire coat hanger and duct tape in his proposed solution.

What are the negatives of using a piece of pvc?

sailingdog · Mar 1, 2010

True... but my I'd point out that the Profurl units were just on sale at Defender for $290 for a unit that would handle a boat up to about 30 LOA... and the Profurl doesn't require a hack like using a piece of PVC pipe, to prevent it from moving in a way it really shouldn't.

As for the PVC pipe...there is nothing wrong with using it...there just shouldn't be any reason to need to on a properly designed piece of equipment.

Hermit Scott said:
It's $200 half-assed or not, He doesn't have a lot riding on it. There are othere ways to fix it, I am sure the tech guy at CDI was giving him a simple solution that anyone can do. At least the tech didn't include a wire coat hanger and duct tape in his proposed solution.
What are the negatives of using a piece of pvc?

Hermit Scott · Mar 1, 2010

The profurl I bought is very nice. Solidly built.
Saildog-I had a quick question about furlers. The drum on mine splits and can be removed for "racing". Why does removing the drum all the sudden turn it into a "racing" furler. What's the difference in hoisting a sail with a drum attached or not attached?

Sumner · Mar 1, 2010

I'd just like to point out that this thread is about using a "used CDI" that had already had the foil extrusion cut for a different boat than what is under consideration now.

I think it is unfair to say the the CDI is not designed properly based on these circumstances. If the unit would of been purchased new and the foil cut to the correct length to match the forestay on the boat it was going and the control lines put on properly we wouldn't be having this discussion as the possibility of it riding up the forestay wouldn't be there. The CDI tech could of just said you need to buy a new foil and cut it to the proper length, but he didn't, he offered the guy a solution to his problem. Sounds like a good deal to me.

just my 2 cents,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

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COOL · Mar 1, 2010

Hermit Scott said:
The drum on mine splits and can be removed for "racing". Why does removing the drum all the sudden turn it into a "racing" furler. What's the difference in hoisting a sail with a drum attached or not attached?

The idea is, that in racing mode, you will be using a sail that is
cut to the 'max hoist' on the luff length. The sail will be too long
on the luff to be used on the furler, and will be tacked on the deck
rather than the furling drum.
You would remove the drum so the tack of the sail
does not have to bend around it. You would also drop
the head swivel below the feeder so you can
utilize full hoist. at that point you are using the furler
only as a slotted foil, and will have the ability
to peel to another headsail.