Full Cockpit Enclosure for Passage 450

[Bowedtoothdoc]

My Passage 450 has an existing dodger and bimini which are in need of new fabric and glass. With the existing setup the top of the dodger is about a foot lower than the bimini top. This allows the helmsman to see over the top of the dodger while standing at the wheel. I have also seen designs which have the dodger at the same height as the bimini top and the helmsman will have to look through the dodger glass. I am interested in eventually ending up with a full enclosure and would like to hear from other owners as to what they have done and would recommend for this particular boat.
Thanks

 

[KD3PC]

personally, I hate looking "through" anything when in a crowded or intense passage. My 42 had the step down "connector" from bimini to dodger, and while nice at the marina, I took the connector OFF anytime we left the pier.

Again the full enclosure would be awesome at the marina, the cost and care would make it unrealistic for me (local estimate was $10-12K for our 42', keeping the bimini - replacing everything else), as we sail the boat. I move around and want to see, for sure, what is around me at all times. The enclosures make that impossible after one or two seasons of use, as the clear - hazes or worse.

Too high of dodger makes for a rickety frame no matter how many braces, again too much of a risk for me in using the boat.

YMMV, and there are certainly some beautiful rigs out there....just not my cup of tea..

 

[Bowedtoothdoc]

personally, I hate looking "through" anything when in a crowded or intense passage. My 42 had the step down "connector" from bimini to dodger, and while nice at the marina, I took the connector OFF anytime we left the pier.

Again the full enclosure would be awesome at the marina, the cost and care would make it unrealistic for me (local estimate was $10-12K for our 42', keeping the bimini - replacing everything else), as we sail the boat. I move around and want to see, for sure, what is around me at all times. The enclosures make that impossible after one or two seasons of use, as the clear - hazes or worse.

Too high of dodger makes for a rickety frame no matter how many braces, again too much of a risk for me in using the boat.

YMMV, and there are certainly some beautiful rigs out there....just not my cup of tea..

Thanks for your input.
Most of my sailing is in fair and warm weather and many have told me that they prefer the lower height dodger both for looks and function. Any glass pannels that would be fabricated to enclose the under bimini area would be able to be rolled up or unzipped and removed for warm weather use.

 

[bugsboat]

We have a Hunter 37.5 with bimini and dodger. Our dodger has strata glass in the front and sides. The strata glass is expensive but our view is crystal clear. When we do the enclosure, ours will have plastic that can be rolled up with warmer weather. We won't keep it up all the time; the disadvantage of having more surface area for wind to push us around will be a problem.

 

[ttac]

We have a 42 passage with a full enclosure on it now that is all the same hight. We are getting ready to replace the whole thing next month! We will be using strata glass on the front three panels. I'm 6' and ours is tall enuf for me to see out standing up. We also plan to remove the sides and front panels when in warm weather. The price we were told for the complete enclosure is $5500. The passage that we share the dock with just had there's done by the same person that will be doing our!

 

[Doug/Karen]

While we have a different model (H356), our configuration seems appropriate for your questions. We have a full cockpit enclosure with just a slight step-down from the top of the bimini to the top of the dodger. Anyone standing at the helm has an unobstructed view ahead. We recently had our dodger panels replaced with Makrolon, a heavy duty, sun resistant crystal clear material that allow a clarity of vision as if they were not there at all.

For the variety of weather conditions here in the Midwest, we could not ask for more full-season comfort. Not having any uncovered gaps in the enclosure ensures total protection from the elements while offering complete visual control to the helmsman.

 

[med2463]

We have a full enclosure, with the dodger almost the same height as the bimini, with a transition piece that is removable. When weather is nice, we roll up the middle section of the dodger. Our vinyl is Strata. Husband is tall, so short dodger wouldn't do. We also had handrails put on both sides of the dodger, we use them all the time. Picture is of first fitting of enclosure (not done). I need to take a picture of it all done and up. One thing I would have done different on this enclosure is smaller panels on the sides for ease in storing and handling. Our previous boats had 3 sections on the sides. The back has 3 sections with the middle section rolls up where the boarding ladder is. You can see dodger handrail in the picture. Screen is noseeum, but no screen in middle section of dodger. Regarding cleaning the vinyl, we've had full enclosures on 3 boats, and I have never used anything but water for cleaning. I keep a spray bottle with water on the boat for cleaning the vinyl.

 

[Bowedtoothdoc]

Thanks everyone for the input. I have been reading up on Strata glass and Makrolon. I think it's all going to depend on the person doing the work and what they are used to working with. I am going to try and post a photo of the existing setup.

 

[Buck420]

Here's a few enclosure pics...

The first picture is a 456 & my 420 and their full enclosures.
The last three pictures are of the full enclosure on my 420.

I had the first full enclosure fabricated when the boat was commissioned in 2001 and the second ( and current one ) fabricated in August 2008.

The material is "Stamoid" and the panels are (optically clear) .040 sheet vinyl.

Despite comments to the contrary, the clear vinyl panels CAN be kept in almost new condition for many years if you take proper care of them.

IMHO, cruising w/o a full enclosure is like going camping w/o the tent.
But, ... to each his own ...

 

[Bowedtoothdoc]

Here's a few enclosure pics...

The first picture is a 456 & my 420 and their full enclosures.
The last three pictures are of the full enclosure on my 420.

I had the first full enclosure fabricated when the boat was commissioned in 2001 and the second ( and current one ) fabricated in August 2008.

The material is "Stamoid" and the panels are (optically clear) .040 sheet vinyl.

Despite comments to the contrary, the clear vinyl panels CAN be kept in almost new condition for many years if you take proper care of them.

IMHO, cruising w/o a full enclosure is like going camping w/o the tent.
But, ... to each his own ...

Buck,
Interesting to hear from another dentist...I noticed that on both of your boats the dodgers are basically the same height as the bimini. What are your thoughts on this versus the lower height dodger in my photos? Also what are your thoughts on the 456 vs the 420? I think my boat is the same as a 456 with just some very minor differences in a couple of ports and stern rail seats.

 

[Buck420]

Buck,
Interesting to hear from another dentist...I noticed that on both of your boats the dodgers are basically the same height as the bimini. What are your thoughts on this versus the lower height dodger in my photos? Also what are your thoughts on the 456 vs the 420? I think my boat is the same as a 456 with just some very minor differences in a couple of ports and stern rail seats.

The front panel of the full enclosure on my 420 (and the 450/6) is not a dodger, but rather just another enclosure panel... I have no trouble at all seeing out of it ( as well as all of the other panels ).
IMHO, you will be MUCH happier with an actual full enclosure than the binin/dodger arrangement.... as long as you know how to keep the clear vinyl panels maintained .... ie...
use ONLY fresh, clean microfier cloths to clean them
avoid touching them w/ your fingers
avoid rolling them up as much as possible ( I lift my front panel up & hold it suspended under the binini w/ bungy cords to avoid rolling it up.
I clean them only w/ this ...
http://geoffreybodinefrenzy.com/geoff_bodine_s_waxing_frenzy.html

there may be other products to use on the clear vinyl, but, personally, I haven't found anything better.

Yes, the 456 is the same hull, rig, engine, etc as a 450, just slight model year upgrades. They are same layout, just larger than the 420.
Oh, although I love my 420, if I had it to do over again, I would have gotten a 450... just a little bigger, a little faster, and a little more comfortable boat on which to cruise.

 

[Bill1565]

I think it's all going to depend on the person doing the work and what they are used to working with.

Should depend on the wants of the person writing the check. There are multiple canvas people everywhere.

 

[Bowedtoothdoc]

Thanks,
I am not questioning the need for a full enclosure, just how to do it. With the shorter dodger a connector can be made between the two, would probably need a window in it of some sort. Also I could redo the dodger frame to make it higher if needed, probably at minimal additional cost. I just want to do it the right way the first time around.

 

[Steve Dion]

When you have your canvas redone I would highly recommend that ALL of the panels zip out. This give you good flexibility and help keep you windows in better shape. You can remove the windows and place them under your berth mattresses. I would recommend that you cover/seperate them with towels.

On hot summer days getting as much air moving as possible really helps.

 

[Bill Roosa]

I've had both and prefer the single height bimini with no dodger. With 12 curtains making up the enclosure sides (3 on each side) you have a lot of options to control the cockpit environment. It certainly does help to include 4 bug screen curtains (12, 3, 6, and 9:00). We absolutely love the extended sailing season when "buttoned up". Pretty much April to Nov now.
Don't forget a skylight so you can check the sail trim. And size it for the shortest and tallest helms-person. The angles are misleading and a short person gets a great view of the sky if you don't account for their stature.

 

[Rick486]

I have a 44DS purchased new in 2008. I have a full height dodger and full enclosure at the same elevation. Several features have not been mentioned in the discussion on this thread. First, with a full height dodger I am able to stand full height on the bridge deck and just barely brush my head on the dodger. Great for going below or coming back up on deck. The view forward is uncluttered and expansive. The dodger is not rickety in any way, solid as a rock. The full height dodger also provides excellent views off the port and starboard bows, as well as dead ahead. The appearance is more of a personal preference thing. I prefer the looks of the dodger/bimini/enclosure all at the same top elevation. Others may prefer the lower dodger.

 

[Doug/Karen]

One last comment...we used an outfit called Boat Tailors in Sturdvant, WI to redo our dodger. Could not have asked for a better vendor performance.