H28.5 Never flown a full battoned main before. Having problems with the front of the battons hanging up on the spreaders when raising it. The battons are even with the luff, but they are between the sail slugs (shackles) and therefore, somehow....the weight of the sail causes the battons and their pockets to pull forward during raising. Anyone had this problem? I am tempted to cut them off a few inches and run a stich or two thru the sail to keep them from running forward of the sail track. Any help appreciated.
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Never had any problems such as you describe
We have had a full battened main sail on our Tartan 27' for over 5 years with no problems raising or lowering the sail due to the battens. I am pretty sure that along the luff of our sail where the batten pockets end there are slides for the mast track. This may help keep them in place and is probably why we don't encounter the problem you described. It is pretty easy to attach a sail slide to the luff where each of your upper battens are. Needle, sail thread and some sail tie material and a slide that fits your mast track. Copy the way the others are attached. It does not matter if, by adding slides to these spots, that your slides are unevenly spaced. My guess is the sail maker overlooked this detail.
We have had a full battened main sail on our Tartan 27' for over 5 years with no problems raising or lowering the sail due to the battens. I am pretty sure that along the luff of our sail where the batten pockets end there are slides for the mast track. This may help keep them in place and is probably why we don't encounter the problem you described. It is pretty easy to attach a sail slide to the luff where each of your upper battens are. Needle, sail thread and some sail tie material and a slide that fits your mast track. Copy the way the others are attached. It does not matter if, by adding slides to these spots, that your slides are unevenly spaced. My guess is the sail maker overlooked this detail.
Battslides work for me
check them out at: http://www.schaefermarine.com/battslide/battslide_overview.html
check them out at: http://www.schaefermarine.com/battslide/battslide_overview.html
It would appear that something is missing
Some full battens use the batslide and mine use a little car with 4 little wheels that bear on the mast (mine are made by Dutchman), The Idea is to have something at the mast end of the batten for the batten to push on against while it is being held in place at the same time. It sounds like you don't have it. It's something that should have been provided by your sailmaker when they installed the full battens. Until you get it fixed tighten your outhaul and be sure to set the main while going straight upwind. Good luck. Joe S
Some full battens use the batslide and mine use a little car with 4 little wheels that bear on the mast (mine are made by Dutchman), The Idea is to have something at the mast end of the batten for the batten to push on against while it is being held in place at the same time. It sounds like you don't have it. It's something that should have been provided by your sailmaker when they installed the full battens. Until you get it fixed tighten your outhaul and be sure to set the main while going straight upwind. Good luck. Joe S
Gary & Chuck
Gary - someone screwed up big time by not having the battens attach where the slugs are located. Chuck - full battens make for a better sail shape
Gary - someone screwed up big time by not having the battens attach where the slugs are located. Chuck - full battens make for a better sail shape
OK....
Now I know my options thanks to this great forum. I am inclined to follow Caleb's advice and sew on a couple sail slides and scrap my idea of cutting them. A new sail would warrant investing in battslides. Thanks for the posts and welcome back Chuck!
Now I know my options thanks to this great forum. I am inclined to follow Caleb's advice and sew on a couple sail slides and scrap my idea of cutting them. A new sail would warrant investing in battslides. Thanks for the posts and welcome back Chuck!
Full Batten with Slides
Gary, Full battens are not usually needed or wanted on a 28.5 with the swept back double spreaders and B&R rig. My sailmaker did recommend one full top batten (and it has a slide at the batten pocket location). When the sail is let out to the shrouds, full battens at the lower locations will bend back around the standing rigging, inverting the usual curve of the sail. Since you want to make th ebest of what you have, I'd agree with adding new slides at the batten pocket locations. Here again, the 28.5 may have all plastic sluggs in the sail track and you may want to switch to plastic sluggs with stainless loops or at least longer sluggs. I've had a few of the all plastic versions break over the years. You may want to check in at www.huntertwentyeightfive.com for a group specific to 28.5's.
Gary, Full battens are not usually needed or wanted on a 28.5 with the swept back double spreaders and B&R rig. My sailmaker did recommend one full top batten (and it has a slide at the batten pocket location). When the sail is let out to the shrouds, full battens at the lower locations will bend back around the standing rigging, inverting the usual curve of the sail. Since you want to make th ebest of what you have, I'd agree with adding new slides at the batten pocket locations. Here again, the 28.5 may have all plastic sluggs in the sail track and you may want to switch to plastic sluggs with stainless loops or at least longer sluggs. I've had a few of the all plastic versions break over the years. You may want to check in at www.huntertwentyeightfive.com for a group specific to 28.5's.
Track Slides
You may not be happy with how the sail furls after you "add" slides. The sailmaker should have put the slides on in the right places to begin with. If it is out of the question to go back to the the loft that built the sail (mail order, etc!) try a local loft if available. Why would a full batten bend around the standing rigging, and a non battened sail NOT?
You may not be happy with how the sail furls after you "add" slides. The sailmaker should have put the slides on in the right places to begin with. If it is out of the question to go back to the the loft that built the sail (mail order, etc!) try a local loft if available. Why would a full batten bend around the standing rigging, and a non battened sail NOT?
Swept Back Spreaders
Mick, My comments was specifically related to the Hunter 28.5 double spreader swept back B&R rig. It has an older style high aspect ratio mainsail with 10'-10" foot and 31'-9" hoist and the original equipment Main sail had four standard length battens. When the boom is let out past about 65+ degrees (from centerline) to the shrouds, the first 3'+ of mainsail lays against the B&R rigging; usually you snug up the main sheet a little and at least get a decent curve in the aft 2/3d's of the sail. With a full batten main, with swept back spreaders, when you let the boom out to the shrouds , the pressure on the leach & aft 2/3d's of the sail bends the batten away from you and 'inverts' the curve of the sail. Hunters with B&R rigs don't sail well dead down wind and owner's learn to jibe back & forth from deep reach to deep reach because of the swept back spreaders. With the single spreaders on a Catalina 36 presumably at 90 degrees to the boom, full battens might never be out against the rigging.
Mick, My comments was specifically related to the Hunter 28.5 double spreader swept back B&R rig. It has an older style high aspect ratio mainsail with 10'-10" foot and 31'-9" hoist and the original equipment Main sail had four standard length battens. When the boom is let out past about 65+ degrees (from centerline) to the shrouds, the first 3'+ of mainsail lays against the B&R rigging; usually you snug up the main sheet a little and at least get a decent curve in the aft 2/3d's of the sail. With a full batten main, with swept back spreaders, when you let the boom out to the shrouds , the pressure on the leach & aft 2/3d's of the sail bends the batten away from you and 'inverts' the curve of the sail. Hunters with B&R rigs don't sail well dead down wind and owner's learn to jibe back & forth from deep reach to deep reach because of the swept back spreaders. With the single spreaders on a Catalina 36 presumably at 90 degrees to the boom, full battens might never be out against the rigging.
Grommets Both Above and Below Each Batton ...
I recently picked up a second-hand Catalina 36 full batten mainsail to replace a more tired normally battened mainsail for my 1980 Hunter 36. (For any Hunter purists reading this, I did remove the Catalina logo from the sail before going out in public.) Firstly, one thing to check if you will be sewing in more slides than you already have on the luff. Added slides cause the mainsail head plate to rest several inches higher than currently when your sail is flaked down on the boom. For example four new slides may only add say five extra inches, but its enough that possibly your sail cover may no longer fit. Further to the concept of the suggestions that luff slides should be installed at each batten, I thought to convey that on the Catalina 36 sail, there is a grommet located both immediately above and immediately below each batton along the luff rope. From memory, about ~ 0.75-1.0" would be the distance. So if the batten is 1.5" wide, then the distance between the two grommets is say 3.0-3.5". One slug was attached at each batten by webbing strip that is looped through the two batten grommets in a manner that leaves the slug/slide at mid-point of the batton at the luff. I suppose that this arrangement distributes the stress of the batton along two points. On the conversion to my boat, the Catalina slides were too narrow for my mast track. When I replaced the slides with wider ones, I didn't bother with the webbing between the upper and lower grommets but only used the grommet just above each batton. I've only used the sail a few times, but seems to be OK. I am planning to inspect this location closely over the next few months for any signs of stress to the sail. regards, rardi
I recently picked up a second-hand Catalina 36 full batten mainsail to replace a more tired normally battened mainsail for my 1980 Hunter 36. (For any Hunter purists reading this, I did remove the Catalina logo from the sail before going out in public.) Firstly, one thing to check if you will be sewing in more slides than you already have on the luff. Added slides cause the mainsail head plate to rest several inches higher than currently when your sail is flaked down on the boom. For example four new slides may only add say five extra inches, but its enough that possibly your sail cover may no longer fit. Further to the concept of the suggestions that luff slides should be installed at each batten, I thought to convey that on the Catalina 36 sail, there is a grommet located both immediately above and immediately below each batton along the luff rope. From memory, about ~ 0.75-1.0" would be the distance. So if the batten is 1.5" wide, then the distance between the two grommets is say 3.0-3.5". One slug was attached at each batten by webbing strip that is looped through the two batten grommets in a manner that leaves the slug/slide at mid-point of the batton at the luff. I suppose that this arrangement distributes the stress of the batton along two points. On the conversion to my boat, the Catalina slides were too narrow for my mast track. When I replaced the slides with wider ones, I didn't bother with the webbing between the upper and lower grommets but only used the grommet just above each batton. I've only used the sail a few times, but seems to be OK. I am planning to inspect this location closely over the next few months for any signs of stress to the sail. regards, rardi
Chuck
Advantages of a full-batten main: (1) a wider "groove" in which the sail is drawing properly; (2) longer life in which the sail holds its shape. Disdavantages of a full-batter main: (1) harder to see when the luff is luffing (which means a lot of rookies end up thinking their main is trimmed properly when it's actually strapped, especially in light air); (2) on larger sails slides become inadequate, necessitating a more expensive battcar-type system.
Advantages of a full-batten main: (1) a wider "groove" in which the sail is drawing properly; (2) longer life in which the sail holds its shape. Disdavantages of a full-batter main: (1) harder to see when the luff is luffing (which means a lot of rookies end up thinking their main is trimmed properly when it's actually strapped, especially in light air); (2) on larger sails slides become inadequate, necessitating a more expensive battcar-type system.
Gary
It's hard to believe any reputably sailmaker would build a mainsail that way. Indeed, I can't even imagine one of the mail-order lofts thinking they could construct a main so poorly. Is this a home-built sail? If not, you may want to post the name of the loft so that the rest of us know to avoid them.
It's hard to believe any reputably sailmaker would build a mainsail that way. Indeed, I can't even imagine one of the mail-order lofts thinking they could construct a main so poorly. Is this a home-built sail? If not, you may want to post the name of the loft so that the rest of us know to avoid them.
Sheesh....lots of info
My former boat was an H31 so I'm familiar with the downwind technique with a B&R rig. Wish I knew the sailmaker but the PO didn't say. 2 more sail slugs shouldn't put me on the market for another mainsail cover, but that's is one of those things you never think of. All my spare slugs on hand fit an isomat mast from my H31.....the 87' H28.5 used Kenyon spars....ahrg!!! Hope I can find some locally. Great info, Thanks!....
My former boat was an H31 so I'm familiar with the downwind technique with a B&R rig. Wish I knew the sailmaker but the PO didn't say. 2 more sail slugs shouldn't put me on the market for another mainsail cover, but that's is one of those things you never think of. All my spare slugs on hand fit an isomat mast from my H31.....the 87' H28.5 used Kenyon spars....ahrg!!! Hope I can find some locally. Great info, Thanks!....
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