Frustration

[BruceG]

Thru-hull drain hoses

I know you said you checked the thru-hulls. I had a constant leak below the port side cockpit area. After many hours of trying to track it down I finally located the culprit. It was my sink drain thru-hull hose. It had a crack in it right at sea pressure head and water was slowing flowing out of it and down the backside of the hose, collecting in the aft bilge area.

 

[MLampner]

Nick and Bruce thanks for your thoughts. Through hulls have been looked at by a number of people and no one could find any problems, none the less the sink drain is definitely in the right area, but there is no evidence of a failure. Will have to keep an eye there just in case.

Meanwhile as to fresh or salt, unfortunately conditions right now make it hard to tell for sure. The marina folks are leaning to fresh, but we anchor up a creek several miles from the bay and there is fresh inflow so salinity is always on the low side at the dock, then we have had over 3 inches of rain in the last 48 hours so there is even more fresh than normal in the mix. That coupled with a couple of deck leaks means even if it is coming from the bottom it could test as fresh. Only way to tell will be to head to the bay and watch carefully and if we get more water in after flushing the bilge out we should be able to tell if its fresh or salt.

Appreciate everyone's thoughts and will be watching this closely and staying near marinas with lifts as much as possible till I am confident the issue was just the time on the land and the angle it sat is its cradle.

Will let you know more as signal and time permit.

 

[redhead78]

I would keep a close eye on the stern tube. If water is getting past it, it may show up in a different location. How much water are we talking about anyway? Red

 

[Charlie13958]

You are going to waste a lot of time guessing where the water is coming from. You will sleep a lot better if you rule out the hull possibility. Haul the boat, check the bottom/keel/thru hulls and get that out of your mind. Carry a spare pump and look for topside leaks while you enjoy the rest of the season.

 

[Manny]

Hey, your dock neighbor here. Maybe i missed it on one of the posts but did you confirm that the scupper hoses are okay? If they exit below the waterline then that could be another source of a leak. Dunno if they are original on your boat but mine are and every time I see them I think its about time to replace them...
As for the toe rail, if it has the same type as mine probably no need to remove. Just tighten up the bolts. It's a pain but I went through and tightened mine up a while back. It's a two person job.
I was still there on Sunday and got stuck under during the worst part of the rain, there was so much water running down your decks and out the stern (as well as mine and every other boat) I'd never seen anything like it. But your pump didn't seem to cycle any more than it had been during the weekend.

M

 

[Nelsonhow]

Just a thought....

On my 1983 H-30 there are two deck drains on each side of the cockpit. They drain the side decks through two thru hulls which are well above the waterline. The deck drains have a very short hose about 1" in diameter that makes a tight 90 degree bend about 5 inches under the deck to the thru hull on the side of the boat.

On mine one of the hoses was cracked letting a lot of rain water to enter the bilge. The hose on the port side is easy to see because it's in the quarter birth but the starboard one is in a locker so it would be hard to see the leak unless you were there during a rain or while someone was washing down the deck.

I'd also check for a split hose or nipple on the thru hull valves. If there was water in the line over the winter and the thru hull valve was closed when it was below freezing the line or even the hose nipple on the valve might crack causing a leak that if small would be very hard to see and might be impossible to find if the boat was not in the water.

Very interested in what you find out.........

 

[MLampner]

Hey, your dock neighbor here. Maybe i missed it on one of the posts but did you confirm that the scupper hoses are okay? If they exit below the waterline then that could be another source of a leak. Dunno if they are original on your boat but mine are and every time I see them I think its about time to replace them...
As for the toe rail, if it has the same type as mine probably no need to remove. Just tighten up the bolts. It's a pain but I went through and tightened mine up a while back. It's a two person job.
I was still there on Sunday and got stuck under during the worst part of the rain, there was so much water running down your decks and out the stern (as well as mine and every other boat) I'd never seen anything like it. But your pump didn't seem to cycle any more than it had been during the weekend.

M

As i said to Manny last night as we tied up I am completely at a loss. The marina had been over the boat found nothing but a couple of known deck leaks. I checked the water in the bilge and salinity was just slightly higher than fresh. As noted in someone elses thread there are a number of other compounds that could do that beyond salt so assumed we were safe to travel. Went out had a great sail went from Middle River to the Magothy in about five hours under just the jib. About half way noticed some water on the floor jus next to the companionway steps. Checked and saw we had water in the engine pan and assumed it had come from the stuffing box which is still being adjusted after an engine replacement. Water was salt. Mopped it up and went back above. Just before anchoring started the motor back up. Ran for about half an hour anchored. Found some more water and mopped it up.

Bilge ran several times and then we began to time it. Ran about every ten minutes for about twenty seconds. Went down engine pan was full. Looked nothing at the stuffing box, tube was dry but on a shelf above the floor and through hull level there was salt water. Mopped it up and went up bilge kept running after about ten minutes more water. That's when the real mystery begins. Decided that even though the pump was keeping up we'd better go back. Mopped up one last time and then headed home periodically check bilge and engine pan. Both stayed dry the entire trip back on the dock the bilge began running again.

I plan to take a picture of the "shelf" today after I check to see what it looks like this am.

Meanwhile as I shared with Manny last night scupper drain is above water and hoses are good in any case. Stuffing box drips about 3 a minute with engine turning the shaft and does not seem to be dripping at rest. Besides way to Kuching water in the pan for a drip. Stay tuned everyone.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Water on the shelf and in the engine sounds like a muffler or related leak. I had a devil of a time chasing a leak that was just pin holes in the muffler. Water came out under the galley on one tack and into the engine pan on another. But that would not explain the constant leak at the dock.

 

[Blaise]

I am baffled by your problem. I am, however drawn to the engine change. I was wondering if you sail with your engine ingear or in neutral. The last time I changed the engine in Midnight Sun, I had an interesting situation where the stuffing box would only leak while the engine was off. I had the stuffing box adjusted so it would drip about every five seconds. When we went sailing we would slowly fill the bildge up enough to trip the pump. It took a while before I thought to look in the engine compartment while we were sailing. What I found was water constantly coming in through the stuffing box while the prop was free wheeling. (Another never ending arguement about which is faster, engine in gear, or nuetral. I PROMISE you that your boat is faster with the prop locked in gear.) The engine had shifted enough from the prop spinning that it caused the stuffing box to leak more. Not saying that this is your problem, but at this juncture, things need to be eliminated. Tighening the stuffing box until it didn's leak at all, and letting the boat sit for a day or two would at least eliminate it from the list if the water kept coming in. Its too bad that it isn't practical to haul the boat, fill it with water to the waterline, and see what dripped out.

 

[MLampner]

Blaise, Ed, Manny and everyone thanks for the support and eveb though the week is unfortunately shot at least the mystery is solved...

This morning the mechanic and folks from the marina solved the problem. It was the classic case of something simple being hidden by something equally simple.

The raw water supply on my boat runs from a seacock, under the sink. The line from there passes through the side of the cabinetry, about 1/2 inch thick, and then about 3/4 of an inch of fiberglass and foil engine room insulating panel. The mechanic looked really sheepish but frankly that he found it at all is amazing given how well it was hidden. Apparently the hose comes on a spool, some took some hose off the real but realized he had to much after having taken a few strokes with a saw of knife. Its fairly obvious as he tried twice, the second time he went all the way through. Rather than cutting off the damaged section after he shortened up what he needed he rolled it back onto the spool.

The mechanic, then rolled off what he thought he'd need, but his length had the slit just far enough to be 1 1/4 inch thick wall.

Since this was the suction side, if the engine was running, it pulled all the water through and more than likelily so air. However once the engine was turned off the slit acted like a syphon and pulled in sea water.

If the water hadn't ponded as it did we would have never realized where to look.

Mystery solved.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Another new one! You would think we had heard them all by now. OK, on to the next problem. Love these old boats.

 

[rardiH36]

I am always surprised about how a single manufacturer can employ so widely different designs between models for what on the surface would make more sense to be much the same.

On my Cherubini Hunter 36, the hose between the engine raw water intake seacock and the engine's raw water strainer is out of clear view for all of about 1/4" ! Not much chance your problem would have occurred unnoticed on my boat.

Glad that the cause was discovered and it wasn't something really major. But still a few hundred hard earned dollars must have been transferred between your account to others ...

regards,
rardi

 

[MLampner]

The mechanic that hendled the engine work is a gentleman, he and the marina are working out the cost for the pull and eating his own time. So Rardi, for a change I checked my wallet at the door. Hoping to get her out this weekend.

Had planned a week long cruise, but will have to reschedule that.