Frustration

[MLampner]

So today was to be the beginning of a week long cruise. Got to the boat and met a neighbor who commented the bilge pump seemed to be running a little more often than seemed normal.

He has been reading some of these posts so we both concurred that given the new engine just installed might be an issue with the stuffing box not being properly adjusted at this point. Since the mechanic was coming to meet me to show me around the new power plant, waited till he arrived and did some re-arraigning of the cabin to get ready to cruise.

Tom showed up we talked about the stuffing box and we agreed that we'd touch base on Sunday, and if need be he'd come by early Monday as the week's crusie was going to include a night on our own dock as one member of crew was leaving us to go to the real world (Work) on Monday.

Tested everything out and just after the mechanic left took a look in the bilge which had just cycled on. Water was coming from the rear of the boat, called the mechanic and he came back. Turned out I fit in the lazerette better than he did so I checked out the rear most area, while he checked the front where the raw water intake was.

We couldn't find anythign back there showing any leaks, but it was clear water was coming into the bilge faster than normal and it seemed to be coming from the vacinity of the new engine.

Tom, announced he would go back to his truck to get his fiber optic scope, which he did and after checking everything around, under and near the engine, he decided to work back from the bilge. After about 5 minutes he announced he had found the source. behind the main bilge and about half way to the little bilge opening just inside the cabin in front of the engine bay he found what appeared to be two leaks in the bottom of the hull.

It appears that something happened either when we put the boat on the hard or when we put it back in that damaged the bottom. I had pressured washed it when we pulled and then touched up the bottom paint but haven't seen anything odd. Judging by the distance inside the cabin I think the leak is just behind the keel. Obviously we didn't go anywhere and it will come back out Monday morning.

There have never been problems with blistering and the bottom seemed sound while I was washing it. Any ideas about this would be great. The marina seems to be accepting this might have been their fault we shall see.

Assuming the water is flowing from a small hole does anyone have any idea how long this is going to take to get it fixed?

 

[rardiH36]

No solution from me, but I can certainly empathize with your frustration.

A bummer at any time, for sure. But doubly so to discover at the beginning of a cruising week.

Hope you can rectify and get on your way.

 

[MLampner]

Even simple Understanding Helps

Thanks Rardi, hopefully we'll salvage most of it and the weather today and tomorrow wasn't going to be great. Perhaps it was nature trying to keep me out of the rain.

 

[seadaddler]

Thru Hull Value

Could it be one of the thru hull Values broken or damaged hose maybe allowing water to enter,how about the head intake raw water.
Are all intake water values closed.
Nick

 

[MLampner]

Nothing that Easy

Nope checked them all including the rudder and shaft stuffing boxes. Dry as a bone. Even checked to see if it was the water or waste tanks leaking, definitely coming from the hull.

Stay tune when its pulled Monday I assume we'll see it...:neutral:

 

[bugaloo]

I experienced the same thing on my 33 and discovered the answer to the problem 60 miles off shore of Charleston. Electrolysis had eaten away the thruhull for the waste tank. Some PO had the electronics grounded there. It is hard to see so check carefully, Robert

 

[Ed Schenck]

Wow, sorry to hear that. Our Cherubini hulls are so thick and solid that it is hard to see how it could be a hull leak. Sources of water back there are the stern tube, the shaft strut, the rudder, and the stuffing box. If the aft strap on the lift is too far back it would lift on the shaft. That could crack the hull at the strut and/or stress the stern tube. But then you should have had some vibration when you tested the new engine. I hope that you find it is something simple.

 

[MLampner]

Good news is can see it and we are at the dock bad news is like all leaks water travels so where it appears may be nothing to do with the fault is. Will check the forward through hulls but the shaft tube, the stuffing box, sink drain, raw water and speed log sensor through hulls all look godd and the water is entering behind the aft end of the bilge. Spent a lot of yesterday in the lazerette and I am 6'1" and 215lb so you make the time in there really count.

Will check the forward through hulls Robert and agree Ed the hull is thick.

Fingers are crossed it something as easy to fix as a bad through hull but hard to know.

 

[Ed Schenck]

If it is running under the engine pan from the back almost has to be strut bolts, rudder packing, or stern tube. Nothiing else that far back.

 

[MLampner]

The problem is it is not coming from that far back. Not familar with your floor plan to be sure if this will make sense but it is starting about a foot behind the bilge opening and about a foot and a half in front of the engine.

The only through hull even near it is the bilge pumps exit. Even assuming that was the point of entry this is a small part of what the pump dumps out. Even if some flowed back each time by now the level would be so low the pump wouldn't turn on.

When I used the fiber optic scope it appears to be bumbling out of the hull below the sole. Problem is it's hard for me to belive it's a hole of any real size as it appears to be letting in between a gal and 2 an hour.

At this rate it can't be the water tank it would have emptied after a couple of days. It's got to be from outside but it is also got be small to flow at such a low level. I

 

[Ed Schenck]

Are there keel bolts in that area? Not familiar with your bilge. On my H37C the bilge is open all the way to the stern except under the engine pan.

 

[MLampner]

Ah not so sweet mystery

Unlike the 37's the 30s bilge sits right over the fin keel, so the bolts are in plain sight. There are channels that run under the engine pan to allow collection of drips from the stuffing box and other sources but since the area beyond the compainion way is all dry I am forced to conclude the leak, what ever it is is somewhere from the bottom of the companion way steps to the start of the bilge opening.

My hope is when we pull her tomorrow, we either find a through hull somewhere that has suffered electrolysis and failed, though I don't think so, or an obvious crack or hole.

Problem is since this is a steady but slow flow what ever it is isn't very big and that isn't going to help finding it. I guess at an absolute worst case I will need to cut through the sole to expose this area and get a good view. Unlike the newer and bigger boats the sole of mine is just glass, so its not like cutting into a teak or holly floor and once the work is done I can build a new cover for the area.

This is just conjecture but I wonder if when it was pulled and put on the stand they set it down on the keel a little too hard torqued the bottom and could have caused a small stress crack.

Spent an hour and a half this afternoon looking for sources other than the hull itself and so far have come up dry, I only wish the boat had...:cry:

 

[Benny17441]

How long has the boat been in the water after being in the hard? There can be many gallons of water trapped in the stringers bellow the cabin sole. When you sit the boat down on stands or a craddle depending on how it is balanced that water may flow either forward or aft. Once you put the boat in the water it will start flowing back and with the bilge in the center must of it will go there, slowly. I'm a little suspicious about coincidences and the fact that you just replaced the engine raises a flag. Depending on the location of the intake through the hull it could have been bumped while swinging the engine into place. Also check the stern tube. Some packing glands are bone dry when the engine ain't running and then leak like a sift underway. I'm with Ed, these hulls are hard so more than likely your problem will not be found there but go ahead and check the hull to keel joint, all through the hulls and the stern tube. If you eliminate the possibility of a marina mishap when launching look very closely at the engine installation. Your mechanic seems to knoledgable and well equipped but it would be very hard to identify and locate a leak in the dark confines under the sole with an optical device. Good luck and let us know how the hull inspection turns out.

 

[MLampner]

Benny wonder about that but its been back on the water about a week. Anything is possible but the flow doesn't seem to be much changed since first noticing it yesterday AM and late this afternoon last time I checked.

Anything is possible and I guess soon we'll know hopefully sooner, there still affair amount of week left if we can find the problem Monday AM.

Worse if it takes a few days I am committed to moving some furniture out to the Maryland shore with my crew if we aren't sailing.

 

[Steve C.]

The ice box drain is in that area, also my 30 has a hand bilge pump by the helm that has a hose in that area. Hard to imagine that the keel could leak there.

 

[David in Sandusky]

Keel Strikes?

Although our hulls are very thick, damage to fiberglass is cumulative. And the damage from a keel strike is focused behind the keel which rotates back and up when struck on the lower leading edge. I wonder if your leak could be the product of multiple keel strikes over the years, somehow focused behind the stub/bilge by the shape of the fiberglass.

In any case, when we were investigated the effects of a keel strike years ago, the yard turned the force of their power washer to max, and stripped off all the paint from the hull in the suspect area behind the keel. Then it was easy to see small cracks from the last strike, and from previous strikes (the older damage had dirt/paint in the cracks.)

Since you suspect damage to the hull, I'd find a fiberglass expert to participate in the investigation with you, so that he will know what needs to be done if that is the issue.

Good luck to you! I'm sorry your cruise is delayed!

 

[MLampner]

Thanks David, I have been wondering about a scenario like that given the location of where it seems to be entering and that even in my brief ownership 3 years she has been aground once (soft mud) but the Chesapeake is shallow and over a 30 year period on it and to best of my knowledge the two PO's both had her here one has to assume she has met up with the bottom more than just that once.

Fingers are crossed that its nothing more than a bad through hull and we'll be underway tomorrow, but the yard is set to hoist her shortly and we'll get our first good look at the area at that point.

 

[Blaise]

Do you have the shoal draft version? If so, you may want to check the skeg attachment bolts.

 

[MLampner]

Have heard from the marina, they have tried everything they could think of and they feel the bottom is tight. They think that Benny may have been right. There is a deck leak on the starboard side that drips into the quarter berth. They think some also gets in between the liner and the hull. If so it would get trapped under the quarter berth and if the boat in the cradle was pointing back that space could have filled up with water that would have not drained. If the opening is small when the boat came back to level on put in it may be slowly draining. Given the torrential rain the last three days the folks at the marina think its been at least partially refilled and will take some time to drain completely. My battery boxes for the starter battery and one of the house bank are under the berth and I don't remember if the liner extends under them or if they sit on the bear hull but I will be checking that before we launch again. Thanks everyone for all the input.


I have been putting off lifting the toe rail on that side but I got a hunch this winter that will get tended to.

 

[seadaddler]

Fresh or Salt

Have you been able to tell if the water in the boat is salt or frsh rain water,I am sure you know this by now but I did not see any mention in this post
Nick