I want to buy a Hunter 26, I like the way it looks, but I don't know how water ballast will perform. I have a brother-in-law that is a long time blue water sailor in Maine (46 foot boat) and he has scared me into stand still. I want to trailer the boat between Tahoe, Folsom and Santa Cruz. He says " How can a boat that has its ballast just below the water line keep from heeling severly on a close reach, your nuts to get anything but a balasted keel boat.". If these boats are so bad why would people still be buying them. I have also had no luck getting a ride in one to help me make my decision. I am stuck in place, HELP.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
G
Greg Stebbins
Biased opinions aren't of great value.
Carl, Your brother-in-law sounds heavily biased toward large keelboats. It's probably what he knows. I don't have a water ballast boat but know better than assume enough expertise to condemn the lot. There's a lot of'um out there sailing up a storm (sometimes literally). Wait for the responses of the W/B guys & gals here before making a decision. I suspect they're a very good solution to the trailer sailor's dilemma of weight-size-performance. Greg H23 -Faster S2 9.2C Impulsive
Carl, Your brother-in-law sounds heavily biased toward large keelboats. It's probably what he knows. I don't have a water ballast boat but know better than assume enough expertise to condemn the lot. There's a lot of'um out there sailing up a storm (sometimes literally). Wait for the responses of the W/B guys & gals here before making a decision. I suspect they're a very good solution to the trailer sailor's dilemma of weight-size-performance. Greg H23 -Faster S2 9.2C Impulsive
Good boat for your area.
Carl: The w/b boats are going to be fine for the Tahoe and Folsom areas. When you are out in the ocean you just need to be a little more conservative. You just need to put a reef in before you go out if the winds are above 10-12 kts. If the winds drop you can shake it out. There are plenty of people that are taking these things out in the ocean and live to talk about it. (any of you w/b sailors alive out there) If I sailed on the coast of Maine my first choice would not be a H'26 w/b either. PS: You did not mention the delta as one of the sites to trailer to. If you don't know about it just ask me.
Carl: The w/b boats are going to be fine for the Tahoe and Folsom areas. When you are out in the ocean you just need to be a little more conservative. You just need to put a reef in before you go out if the winds are above 10-12 kts. If the winds drop you can shake it out. There are plenty of people that are taking these things out in the ocean and live to talk about it. (any of you w/b sailors alive out there) If I sailed on the coast of Maine my first choice would not be a H'26 w/b either. PS: You did not mention the delta as one of the sites to trailer to. If you don't know about it just ask me.
T
Tom Hultberg
All boats are a compromise...
Carl, There are alot of entries throughout this forum discussing the pros and cons of WB. I can tell you from experience, since we bought out 97 H26 this Spring, that we are very happy with the boat in all respects. We do respect that we need to reef the mainsail at winds much above 18 knots cuz the boat is a bit more tender than a full keel or shoal keel boat. If you expect to be sailing in high or gusty winds, this is not the boat for you. If you generaly sail in 5 to 20 knots then this is a great boat. It is very well appointed, lots of room in the cockpit and the salon. The trailerability is a big factor for us and leaving 2,000 lbs. in the water when you pull your boat out (without a sling) and take the boat to another lake or river or costal area and enjoy seeing other areas of the country from the water, you can't go wrong with this boat. You're right, there is a reason people buy these and like them. But they are not a ballast boat and as long as you respect that you will love it.
Carl, There are alot of entries throughout this forum discussing the pros and cons of WB. I can tell you from experience, since we bought out 97 H26 this Spring, that we are very happy with the boat in all respects. We do respect that we need to reef the mainsail at winds much above 18 knots cuz the boat is a bit more tender than a full keel or shoal keel boat. If you expect to be sailing in high or gusty winds, this is not the boat for you. If you generaly sail in 5 to 20 knots then this is a great boat. It is very well appointed, lots of room in the cockpit and the salon. The trailerability is a big factor for us and leaving 2,000 lbs. in the water when you pull your boat out (without a sling) and take the boat to another lake or river or costal area and enjoy seeing other areas of the country from the water, you can't go wrong with this boat. You're right, there is a reason people buy these and like them. But they are not a ballast boat and as long as you respect that you will love it.
R
Russ King
How Times Change...
80 years ago and more, a respectable sailor would shun a keel boat. All the working boats (i.e., fishing boats) had ballast inside the hull. Back then, the "old salt" would say, "How can a boat with a heavy keel hanging beneath the boat keep from being wrecked when you ground it? If you hit a rock, you'll rip the bottom right off your boat! Get a boat with the ballast inside, where it belongs." Every boat has it's advantages and disadvantages. Water ballast boats do heel more. But you can easily trailer them, and gunkhole where no keel boat can go. A compromise is a swing-keel boat, like the Hunter 25 and the new Hunter 212 (my favorite is the Precision 23). These boats have a heavy keel that can be raised for trailering/launching, and lowered for sailing. If trailerability and pure performance is your goal, buy a Corsair trimaran ($$$). The amas (pontoons) make a heavy keel unnecessary.
80 years ago and more, a respectable sailor would shun a keel boat. All the working boats (i.e., fishing boats) had ballast inside the hull. Back then, the "old salt" would say, "How can a boat with a heavy keel hanging beneath the boat keep from being wrecked when you ground it? If you hit a rock, you'll rip the bottom right off your boat! Get a boat with the ballast inside, where it belongs." Every boat has it's advantages and disadvantages. Water ballast boats do heel more. But you can easily trailer them, and gunkhole where no keel boat can go. A compromise is a swing-keel boat, like the Hunter 25 and the new Hunter 212 (my favorite is the Precision 23). These boats have a heavy keel that can be raised for trailering/launching, and lowered for sailing. If trailerability and pure performance is your goal, buy a Corsair trimaran ($$$). The amas (pontoons) make a heavy keel unnecessary.
J
Joe Baker
Great trailer sailer
We have had our 26 for four summers and have sailed from southern AZ to Lake Superior(MN mostly). We race in a fifty boat regatta with only a couple WB boats. Our heel and speed seem to be most comparable to 23' to 25' heavy keel boats, and our cabin is more like a 30'. We have raced along side of lead keel boats and our heel was not comparitively excessive. This is not a high quality expensive boat, but all things considered, it is amazing. We trailered it for three summers and are docking it now. We have been out in winds up to 40 mph, thunderstorms, fog, 8' waves, etc. We have stayed out for a week at a time sometimes. We will have this one until we quit trailering and go to deeper water!!
We have had our 26 for four summers and have sailed from southern AZ to Lake Superior(MN mostly). We race in a fifty boat regatta with only a couple WB boats. Our heel and speed seem to be most comparable to 23' to 25' heavy keel boats, and our cabin is more like a 30'. We have raced along side of lead keel boats and our heel was not comparitively excessive. This is not a high quality expensive boat, but all things considered, it is amazing. We trailered it for three summers and are docking it now. We have been out in winds up to 40 mph, thunderstorms, fog, 8' waves, etc. We have stayed out for a week at a time sometimes. We will have this one until we quit trailering and go to deeper water!!
R
Rick Webb
Ignore Him
Our water ballasted boats heel over quicker but are then quite stable. I had only sailed keeled boats until we got our 23.5 it is a bit unnerving at first but when you realize that that is as far over as it is going to go you really start to enjoy it. We used to put the rail in the water all the time on the keel boats I have tried with this one but it just won't go over that far. Your brother in law will become a big fan of the boat once he gets aboard.
Our water ballasted boats heel over quicker but are then quite stable. I had only sailed keeled boats until we got our 23.5 it is a bit unnerving at first but when you realize that that is as far over as it is going to go you really start to enjoy it. We used to put the rail in the water all the time on the keel boats I have tried with this one but it just won't go over that far. Your brother in law will become a big fan of the boat once he gets aboard.
Go for the WB!
Yes, I know this sounds like treason coming from a diehard fixed-keel H23 sailor like me, but let us not lose sight of the big picture. The goal is to have fun sailing, so if a WB boat will get you there with the least amount of hassle and upkeep, go for it! Peter H23 Raven
Yes, I know this sounds like treason coming from a diehard fixed-keel H23 sailor like me, but let us not lose sight of the big picture. The goal is to have fun sailing, so if a WB boat will get you there with the least amount of hassle and upkeep, go for it! Peter H23 Raven
T
Tom
WB since 1990
I have owned 2 WB boats -- the first a 1990 macgregor 26, and now a Hunter 260 (1999). I learned to sail on Catalina 30 type boats in S. California. The WB boats are a little tender, the Hunter not nearly as much as the MAC, but the Hunter also wieghs 2000 lbs more. The boats are easily driven and the move right along very happily on their feet with the main reefed. I often sail with friends on their 30 foot deep fin keeled boats, and you can heel them right over if you wish. In fact, when sailing with keel boaters, we are heeled much more on their boats than I am ever with my wife and/or inexperience crew along on my WB boat. Another point is that with an auxilary sailboat on inland and protected coastal waters, if you get tired of beating to windward you can drop the sails and sail home under power. Fair winds (and roads)... Tom
I have owned 2 WB boats -- the first a 1990 macgregor 26, and now a Hunter 260 (1999). I learned to sail on Catalina 30 type boats in S. California. The WB boats are a little tender, the Hunter not nearly as much as the MAC, but the Hunter also wieghs 2000 lbs more. The boats are easily driven and the move right along very happily on their feet with the main reefed. I often sail with friends on their 30 foot deep fin keeled boats, and you can heel them right over if you wish. In fact, when sailing with keel boaters, we are heeled much more on their boats than I am ever with my wife and/or inexperience crew along on my WB boat. Another point is that with an auxilary sailboat on inland and protected coastal waters, if you get tired of beating to windward you can drop the sails and sail home under power. Fair winds (and roads)... Tom
G
Gerard
do what you want...
...it's going to be your boat, not your brother-in-law's. You start out by saying you want to buy a h26. We switched from a fin keel 27' boat to the h26 this year for the trailerablilty. I don't think we reefed the 27' five times in the five years we had it. We almost always reef the Hunter 26. You can always shake out the reef. You will learn to sail it comfortably. We did. Quickly. We love our Hunter 26 and you will, too. Also, comparing a Hunter 26 to a 46 foot boat is like comparing apples to watermelons! Good luck.
...it's going to be your boat, not your brother-in-law's. You start out by saying you want to buy a h26. We switched from a fin keel 27' boat to the h26 this year for the trailerablilty. I don't think we reefed the 27' five times in the five years we had it. We almost always reef the Hunter 26. You can always shake out the reef. You will learn to sail it comfortably. We did. Quickly. We love our Hunter 26 and you will, too. Also, comparing a Hunter 26 to a 46 foot boat is like comparing apples to watermelons! Good luck.
C
Carl Bader
Unstuck and moving again
Thank you everyone who responded to my request for help. I understand a h26 will not handle or perform like a large keel boat. It was just his concern in his voice about my wanting a boat that he couldn't believe would be safe. I have found a h26 that I am very interested in and will be going forward. I might have a chance to sail one this weekend before I buy. THANK YOU AGAIN and hope to be a HUNTER OWNER soon.
Thank you everyone who responded to my request for help. I understand a h26 will not handle or perform like a large keel boat. It was just his concern in his voice about my wanting a boat that he couldn't believe would be safe. I have found a h26 that I am very interested in and will be going forward. I might have a chance to sail one this weekend before I buy. THANK YOU AGAIN and hope to be a HUNTER OWNER soon.
J
Joe R
The 240 & 260 WB are NOT unsafe
They are more fun on a light air day because they will respond more quickly to wind (start to heel) but you will soon see that you can not tip over (except in conditions dangerous for ALL boats). The water balasted boat heels more quickly to 25-30 degrees than keel balast, but then STOPS HEELING. or it rounds up at about the same point keel balasted boats do. ITS JUST MORE THRILLLLLING to sail than a keel balasted boat. There is always the option of reefing the main or jib, which when appropriate dosen't seem to slow the boat because when it's necessary to reef the sail, the boat is already over powered and losing speed because of excessive heel. (the boat goes faster when sailed flatter)
They are more fun on a light air day because they will respond more quickly to wind (start to heel) but you will soon see that you can not tip over (except in conditions dangerous for ALL boats). The water balasted boat heels more quickly to 25-30 degrees than keel balast, but then STOPS HEELING. or it rounds up at about the same point keel balasted boats do. ITS JUST MORE THRILLLLLING to sail than a keel balasted boat. There is always the option of reefing the main or jib, which when appropriate dosen't seem to slow the boat because when it's necessary to reef the sail, the boat is already over powered and losing speed because of excessive heel. (the boat goes faster when sailed flatter)
J
Joe R
PS
I consistently sail on Lake Michigan in 20 & 25 mph winds S-A-F-E-L-Y. When caught in near 30 mph on one or two occasions (I usually avoid 25 or more) we drop sails and motor home. But the point is this. The boat will take the 20 - 25 mph winds with no problem assuming (there's that word) you take reasonable precausions. Oh by the way. I broke a side stay in a 25mph plus wind after the t-bolt was previously weakened by bending when stepping the mast. The loud c-r-a-c-k followd by the zooming stay was impressive and frightening. The mast didn't budge probably because of the lateral struts, but I dropped sail immediately to take the load off the mast and motored home. The repair was less than $10.00. The event left me gun shy of excessive wind and possible damage to the equipment. (don't want to hurt my baby) And I check the t-bolts and fastener pins each time we sail. Not to ramble on, but a 28' O'Day (twice the weight and fixed keel) de-masted in a 35mph wind during a storm and "micro burst" now he's out for the season. So just use common sense and dont tempt fate.
I consistently sail on Lake Michigan in 20 & 25 mph winds S-A-F-E-L-Y. When caught in near 30 mph on one or two occasions (I usually avoid 25 or more) we drop sails and motor home. But the point is this. The boat will take the 20 - 25 mph winds with no problem assuming (there's that word) you take reasonable precausions. Oh by the way. I broke a side stay in a 25mph plus wind after the t-bolt was previously weakened by bending when stepping the mast. The loud c-r-a-c-k followd by the zooming stay was impressive and frightening. The mast didn't budge probably because of the lateral struts, but I dropped sail immediately to take the load off the mast and motored home. The repair was less than $10.00. The event left me gun shy of excessive wind and possible damage to the equipment. (don't want to hurt my baby) And I check the t-bolts and fastener pins each time we sail. Not to ramble on, but a 28' O'Day (twice the weight and fixed keel) de-masted in a 35mph wind during a storm and "micro burst" now he's out for the season. So just use common sense and dont tempt fate.
R
Richard
Fine for Tahoe and Folsom...
I purchased a 1995 26 just this May, and went through many of the questions you now face. I sail on the Chesapeake Bay now, but learned to sail in Santa Cruz in a 30' keelboat (a Shields). I think my Hunter would be great at Tahoe or Folsom (was a Tahoe 4 weeks ago, and boy did I wish I had my boat with me!), but would remain wary and on the cautious side with it at Santa Cruz, compared with a larger (keel)boat. Richard H26 "Lark"
I purchased a 1995 26 just this May, and went through many of the questions you now face. I sail on the Chesapeake Bay now, but learned to sail in Santa Cruz in a 30' keelboat (a Shields). I think my Hunter would be great at Tahoe or Folsom (was a Tahoe 4 weeks ago, and boy did I wish I had my boat with me!), but would remain wary and on the cautious side with it at Santa Cruz, compared with a larger (keel)boat. Richard H26 "Lark"
J
John Powell
Been there!
I bought a Hunter 23.5 earlier this year and am totally sick with uninformed people telling me how the water balast isn't good. I finally ended up with a wing keel boat from another company just so my spouse would not be afraid of the boat. I learned to sail on the Hunter and would much prefer to sail it over the larger, fixed keel boat I now own. Buy the water balast and enjoy it. Tell the uninformed to get lost. John
I bought a Hunter 23.5 earlier this year and am totally sick with uninformed people telling me how the water balast isn't good. I finally ended up with a wing keel boat from another company just so my spouse would not be afraid of the boat. I learned to sail on the Hunter and would much prefer to sail it over the larger, fixed keel boat I now own. Buy the water balast and enjoy it. Tell the uninformed to get lost. John
- Status
- Not open for further replies.