Frozen Batteries - Keep Them Charged

[Maine Sail]

I propose MaineSail tell the perpetrator to return to Sam's and pay the rest of the cost for the batteries.

Perpetrator?? C'mon this guy was not more a perpetrator than a girl scout. He went into Sam's looking to BUY new batteries, stated as such and admitted it was his fault! He was expecting to use the frozen batteries as his core charge... The dept manager insisted that he get free replacements.

Wet cell batteries will freeze if left un-charged and flat dead, with a full charge they are fine..

Many of the big box stores send nothing back to the manufacturer as the warranties are negotiated, and paid up front by the manufacturer. The Sam's up here has been selling Johnson Controls batteries for as long as I can remember, which is probably about ten years. All their wet batteries say "Manufactured by Johnson Controls" in small print..

Years ago I used to rep/sell a big name stainless steel sink, now sold in Home Depot and Lowes. We negotiated the price with HD and then at the end of these negotiations they told us their calculation for returns on this type of product was 3.2% per year. If we wanted to do business we would pay 3.2% of the HD projected sales as warranty/returns.

Our numbers, selling though wholesale distribution, was about .8%. We never saw a sink back nor cared as we had already paid for these claims. If the retailer can come in under the 3.2%, which they almost always do, then they win. If they come in over the 3.2% you can bet your A$$ that next year they will be raising the returns cost analysis baseline. Most returns, with HD at least, just go right into the dumpster...

I can't say for sure how Sam's does it but a couple of the guys in purchasing at HD we dealt with were recruited away from Wal*Mart/Sam's...

 

[jibes138]

Just trying to give you a way out

Hey Maine Sail I was just trying to provide a suggestion for a way to relieve your guilt over this affair. PeterSea quite eloquently described how this all flows back to the average consumer in the way of higher prices. So this guy gets a break and all of us take a beating. The more I think about it the big box would probably not take the returns unless they had experienced a rash of returns of this product and were concerned about a class action. If you can sleep at night after witnessing this then rest assured so can I but you might want to discuss further with PeterSea, he is very emotional about this and the stress might make him convert back to a sailboat.

 

[petersea]

Re: So, I was just at Sam's Club.......

"I'd almost be willing to bet that Sam's club won't even tell the manufacturer of the batteries, and eat the cost themselves. Sam's and Wally World do stuff like that all the time"

Trust me they do it all the time but not at their expense. I read a article on doing business with Walmart and how one supplier finally had enough when a defective DVD box was returned full of diapers and no DVD. Walmart insisted on credit because they gave the customer credit. Certain items will be trashed based on cost and don't become a problem until they reach a percentage of the total sale to the retailer but they are documented before being thrown away. While I agree with satisfying the customer and being customer friendly the initial post clearly said the customer was looking for a core credit only and never said they were defective. The batteries were even a "LITTLE OVER" the warranty. As far as the next set of batteries he WAS buying them from Sam's anyway. This is $300 hundred dollars (retail)of battery not a toy for $3.99 that was made in china. How many batteries do you think this guy will buy in a life time to off set the cost of "satisfy the customer". Where do you think the cost will be absorbed ??? The consumer !

 

[Maine Sail]

How many battery do you think this guy will buy in a life time to off set the cost of "satisfy the customer". Where do you think the cost will be absorbed ??? The consumer !

Obviously everything is absorbed by the consumer, tax increases to business, transportation costs, packaging, warranty etc. etc. always has been. The fact still remains that Trojan 6v batteries used to cost me about $65.00 when Sam's had their 6v's for about $54.00, an $11.00 spread. I bought the Trojan's. Now Trojan's are about $150.00 ea and the Sam's Club batteries are $74.00. I will probably try them next time I need batts.

It would appear that Sam's has done a good job at keeping the cost to the consumer down, despite having a good warranty. One has to wonder what kind of warranty issues Trojan had resulted in jacking the cost to more than double the Johnson Controls 6V batteries?

 

[Scott]

Re: So, I was just at Sam's Club.......

A few weeks ago a friend told me that Walmart doesn't pay their vendors until the article is sold. I have no idea whether or not this is true, but if it is then their suppliers are financing their operations. With their extremely large volume of business and buying power, it seems plausible. Does anybody out there have knowledge of this being factual?

 

[petersea]

It would appear that Sam's has done a good job at keeping the cost to the consumer down, despite having a good warranty.

There in lays my problem with this issue ! It is NOT Sam's warranty but the manufactures warranty. As you have said the retailer has a calculated rate of returns. "Failures" as in this case inflate the calculated allowable return percentage. If the retailer returns go above the negotiated percentage they will go back to the manufacture with a higher percentage. The manufacture then raise the allowable return rate and increases the cost to recoup their profit margin or no longer does business with them. Based on this Sam's club managers willingness to take back four out of warranty batteries that were neglect rather then defective and insisting on giving a full no charge replacement I will assume that everyone can return their batteries any time for a full no charge replacement ! ! Great business plan and bet they will have 100% customer satisfaction ! !


p.s. - Jibes, Sorry but I just can't get off the "dark side" quite yet !

 

[tommays]

Re: So, I was just at Sam's Club.......

I work in a contract manufacturing plant and the BIG boys make there money on things like fines for most everything (kind of like a red light camera that goes off on green)

Returns are a big thing issue stuff does not sell ,Diid you really think they keep all that Halloween makeup till next year in the back room

 

[Ross]

Re: So, I was just at Sam's Club.......

Petersea, I must presume that you are not in a business that serves the public! You seem to have no understanding of the results of a dis-satisfied customer. The result will be far in excess of the cost of four batteries. First of all Sam's club probably pays less than half the selling price for that merchandise. How do you feel about women who purchase a dress on Friday ,wear it to a party on Saturday and return in on Sunday because they "aren't pleased with it." Taking advantage of the no question return policy. All of this is just the cost of doing business and if you don't understand how it works you will never succeed in business.

 

[txtowman]

Re: So, I was just at Sam's Club.......

It is also possible that the sailor and the sam's manager are buddies.
I needed a new spare for my boat trailer a guy I was working with got me a new 205/75/15 on a galvanised wheel for $74 at discount tire, they are over $150 every where I have looked. Go figger!

 

[petersea]

You seem to have no understanding of the results of a dis-satisfied customer.

Ross, There was NEVER a dissatisfied customer ! ! ! Re read Maine Sails post at no time does it say this guy was dissatisfied or in any way unhappy with the product or retailer. And as far as the woman who may return the dress after wearing it,(assuming she bought it only to wear and return) while I disagree but at least she returned it within the stores policy. These batteries were out of warranty (for full replacement) and damaged by neglect not defective.

If I recall correctly you are in the home improvement business, so given the scenario that after 21 years a tree falls and damages a roof that you installed. While the home owner inspects he see that the shingles are curling just a little and some are clearly damaged by the tree. You installed 20 year warrantied shingles at the owners request. Is this warranty and are you going to cover the cost of the new shingles ??? What do you think the manufacture will tell you ?? Customer service to replace the shingles ?? You tell me because if you say yes I will give you any and all roofing work I ever have assuming you are also the lowest bidder ! !

 

[Ross]

Re: So, I was just at Sam's Club.......

Petersea, Sam's Club acted preemptively to avoid a dissatisfied customer. We don't know if the customer asked for an accomdation or not but he got one.

With regard to you roof example that would be a homeowners insurance claim and the insurance company would pay for structrual repairs and a new set of shingle. But the homeowner must pay for the removal of the tree.
Edit to add: You would be pleased with the low bid AND a life time warrenty on labor and materials. It don't work that way! People that give absurd warrenties also apply absurd mark-ups on their product.

I have taken tools back to Sears because they were worn out and they replace them without qualm. I once went to Sears for a new shovel because I had broken the handle on the old one. I remarked to the clerk that I had a perfectly good craftsman shovel but that I broken the handle. He told me to bring it in and he would give me the new shovel. The same thing happened with a sprintooth rake the teeth started to fall out after twenty years and they gave me a new rake.

 

[petersea]

He was bringing them back for core charge because he accidentally left his switch on and killed them and did not and was not expecting what he got.... /quote]


As quoted he was bring them back for a core charge to purchase new batteries....nothing about being dissatisfied. No preemptive action needed or required. So as long as we are going to interpret the facts to suit the responses, I would even guess he would have been happy to pay the prorated amount based on age for replacement.

As far as the roof shingles what about the home owner with no insurance ?? Warranty or not ?? Customer satisfaction or not ?? Nice side step of the question though.

As far a SEARS goes last time I returned a broken ratchet (lifetime guarantee) they offered me a "repair kit" to fix it my self. Maybe you just have a better SEARS store then me. But I have been so dissatisfied I have not returned to SEARS in five years.

Ross edit to add; Apparently at this Sam's Club it does ! ! Customer got a warranty replacement that was not applicable as well as low price !!

 

[Ross]

[Petersea wrote:
As far a SEARS goes last time I returned a broken ratchet (lifetime guarantee) they offered me a "repair kit" to fix it my self. Maybe you just have a better SEARS store then me. But I have been so dissatisfied I have not returned to SEARS in five years.[/quote]

A homeowner without insurance would never hire me. Too Cheap!
Besides the mortgage company insists that you maintain insurance.

But your statement about Sears supports my dis-satisfied customer argument.

 

[Ron20324]

Re: So, I was just at Sam's Club.......

A co-worker had a Sears gas lawn mower and had purchased the maintenance contract. The mower got so old they just could not fix it again and gave her a brand new one.

 

[Nereussailor]

Re: So, I was just at Sam's Club.......

Fight nice children!

 

[petersea]

Re: So, I was just at Sam's Club.......

My dissatisfaction with Sears is based on their idea of a lifetime repair or replace warranty is not he same as mine. A repair kit is not exactly what I had in mind and I told them so.. Apples to Apples where is the unhappy customer at Sam's ??

Maybe time to stop now so that we don't hijack the original thread but next time I go to Sam's (if I go again) I will also wonder if I'm paying more because of this particular incident. As someone else pointed out this guy get a break and we all get to take the beating for it. SO either way you have an unhappy customer..................

 

[woodster]

Re: So, I was just at Sam's Club.......

the way i see it is .......the costumer didnt keep up his end of the contract....nor did sam's club...the guide lines were set on the original purchase and nither one of them up held the deal as stated in the first place.... but this is the way it is..... (as they say in the grab and growl world)....

and by the way..... a high 5 for the man that got the replacements lol

 

[jibes138]

Binding Arbitration

If desired I will act as an arbitrator in this case. I refer to an old Japanese gentleman I once knew well before his passing in 2000. He taught about the cost to Society for poor quality products, a deep rooted philosophy with the Japanese because of their enormous population density and lack of raw materials. Survival for them depended on not wasting anything. Building poor quality products and making scrap parts is considered a dishonorable event and unacceptable to society as a whole. After WW2 even more so as they had to rebuild their entire society. So this case seems to be an individual (interpreted as the store employee giving away freebies, the consumer accepting the freebies, or Maine Sail witnessing the whole thing and not intervening to prevent the loss to society) looking out for themselves at the expense of the society as a whole.
In the last Seinfeld episode they all went to jail for not intervening to assist a victim (the good samaritan law). Since Maine Sail failed to intervene to prevent this loss to society I respectfully suggest he should go directly to his local police station, explain the situation, and throw himself on the mercy of the courts to decide his fate. Make sure you video tape it and post it on youtube, I could use a good laugh in between football games.

 

[Maine Sail]

So I just came back from Sam's Club, again. It seems the free replacement period on deep cycle batteries is now 12 months as opposed to the 18 month batts the guy brought in. Car batts are three years free replacement then from 3 to 8 years, pro-rated.

I did ask the mgr how the warranty worked, and also to see it in writing. He told me there is no "in-writing". If the batts don't take a charge, and then pass the muster of their in store fancy battery teste, they are replaced. Their only measurement for replacement is apparently the in-store tester. Frozen batts won't pass and I suspect this is why they were replaced. I also suspect these mgr's have some wiggle room as thuis guy eluded to. According to the guy I spoke with the batts do not get sent back to the manufacturer but instead are recycled..

 

[petersea]

So I just came back from Sam's Club, again. It seems the free replacement period on deep cycle batteries is now 12 months as opposed to the 18 month batts the guy brought in.

Rest my case...........It did not take long for the economic reality to set in !! !! They shortened the warranty ! ! Got to love that ! !The perpetrator got the break and we all get a beating ! ! But not to worry cuz as long as you buy them at Maine Sails Sam's Club location they will most likely give you a full replacement in or out of warranty anyway !! !!


p.s. And no Maine Sail the batteries don't go back but as you so eloquently pointed out they have all ready "paid" for them.......