Peggy, I'm hoping you can help me... My wife and I purchased a 1959 Chris Craft that spent its entire life on the Chesapeake. It came with a Lectra-San, which seemed like it would be a good solution to the MSD problem, but... The boat is going to spend at least the next year in Newport RI, and all of Narragansett Bay is a No Discharge Zone. This means that the Lectra-San will either need to be discharged into a holding tank... or removed entirely. Considering the water use of the unit, I'm thinking "removed entirely" is the way to go right now... but can be convinced otherwise. My real issue/question is how to set up the holding tank system. I've done some research, but am having difficulty finding specific information: things like "the hose from the holding tank to the pump out fitting should be no longer than X, or the hose from the head to the tank should be no longer than Y, that type of thing. Clearly, the longer the hose from the head to the tank, the faster the tank will fill... but that's all I can figure out. What I would like to do is this: The boat currently has two heads, one in the forward cabin, one aft. The aft head seems to be an older electric raritan (not sure the model, but it seems to have a macerator pump under the bowl) plumbed to the Lectra-San. The head in the fore cabin is smaller, not electric, and has a very small (perhaps 2 or 3 gallon) holding tank underneath it. This tank is plumbed either to a through hull or to a pump out fitting on the foredeck. I haven't directly measured the distance between the two, the hull is 38 feet, if I had to guess, I'd say the distance is close to about 25 feet, perhaps a little less. I was thinking that I could plumb the aft head forward about half way (there's room in the engine room there) to a new holding tank. I could vent the holding tank from there fairly easily. I then wanted to plumb the pump out forward to the existing pump out fitting. I would use a locking Y valve to either flush to the tank, or, when I'm 3 miles offshore, directly overboard. I was also considering re-plumbing the forward head, which is seldom used, directly to the holding tank, eliminating the through hull. Does this sound feasible, or do I need a short run to the pump out fitting? Using the existing fitting is preferred, because I really don't want to cut any more holes in the deck of a 47 year old boat! Sorry this is so long, I really appreciate any advice!
From a Lectra-San to a NDZ (Sorry, Long...)
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I got lost in your post, but...
The Lectra/San doesn't use any water...it simply receives what the toilet flushes into it--a max of 1 gal/flush. So water usage is a function of your toilet, not the L/S. What make/model IS your toilet? As for installing a tank...I suggest you find a good location for it that's within about 6' of the toilet, and either install a y-valve that allows you to choose between going overboard through the L/S or into the tank...it doesn't matter whether that y-valve is before or after the L/S. As for what is 25' away from what, I'm not sure what. But I can tell you that whatever it is, that's WAY too far. No device in the system should be more than about 6-8' from any toilet. Once I've got what you have sorted out I can better tell you what to do...but I can tell you now that it shouldn't require any more holes in the boat.
The Lectra/San doesn't use any water...it simply receives what the toilet flushes into it--a max of 1 gal/flush. So water usage is a function of your toilet, not the L/S. What make/model IS your toilet? As for installing a tank...I suggest you find a good location for it that's within about 6' of the toilet, and either install a y-valve that allows you to choose between going overboard through the L/S or into the tank...it doesn't matter whether that y-valve is before or after the L/S. As for what is 25' away from what, I'm not sure what. But I can tell you that whatever it is, that's WAY too far. No device in the system should be more than about 6-8' from any toilet. Once I've got what you have sorted out I can better tell you what to do...but I can tell you now that it shouldn't require any more holes in the boat.
Peggy ...Question ???
You stated "it doesn't matter whether that y-valve is before or after the L/S." I was under the impression that to be 'safe' with Coast Guard regs and local regs, that everything should go into the holding tank first, then to a 'Y' valve with one leg to the deck discharge and the other leg to overboard discharge. This would prevent what is called "accidental discharge", and that is the problem we have with the regs and removes all disputes. Correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks Tony B
You stated "it doesn't matter whether that y-valve is before or after the L/S." I was under the impression that to be 'safe' with Coast Guard regs and local regs, that everything should go into the holding tank first, then to a 'Y' valve with one leg to the deck discharge and the other leg to overboard discharge. This would prevent what is called "accidental discharge", and that is the problem we have with the regs and removes all disputes. Correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks Tony B
OK, to clarify
I understand the Lectra-San only holds/uses the water that I flush, my Lectra-San instruction book recommends flushing for 15 seconds to get everything out of the head/hoses... I guess I'm only imagining that would be a lot of water. If I understand what you said correctly, I can pull the "dumping hose" from the current through hull, add a Y fitting there, and then plumb either directly overboard or to the holding tank, OR I could place the Y closer to the head, and from there select either straight to the L/S or straight to the holding tank. Either way, no chance of an accidental discharge. The "25 feet thing" is the distance between the aft head and the current pump out fitting. If I put the holding tank half way between, that would mean about 12 feet from head to holding tank and 12 feet from holding tank to the fitting. From what you've said, that seems too far. Thanks!
I understand the Lectra-San only holds/uses the water that I flush, my Lectra-San instruction book recommends flushing for 15 seconds to get everything out of the head/hoses... I guess I'm only imagining that would be a lot of water. If I understand what you said correctly, I can pull the "dumping hose" from the current through hull, add a Y fitting there, and then plumb either directly overboard or to the holding tank, OR I could place the Y closer to the head, and from there select either straight to the L/S or straight to the holding tank. Either way, no chance of an accidental discharge. The "25 feet thing" is the distance between the aft head and the current pump out fitting. If I put the holding tank half way between, that would mean about 12 feet from head to holding tank and 12 feet from holding tank to the fitting. From what you've said, that seems too far. Thanks!
Making progress here
If you put the 'Y' closer to the head and pump from the head to the LS, the LS will pump overboard the same amount of water that you pumped into it. Now you have just discharged accidentally. If you had the 'Y' valve in the holding tank position and you pumped into it, it can be misinterpreted that if you forget to move the 'Y ' into this position, you could accidentally discharge. To avoid this 'accidental' discharge you should tie down or lock the 'y' valve in the correct position. As far as the authorities are concerned, you dont actually have to get caught discharging to get the fine, its the 'possibility' of an accidental discharge that will bite you in the ass, so to speak. To avoid this, go straight from the head into the holding tank, or from the head into the LS and then into the holding tank, then when someone flushes it can only go into the holding tank and cannot be accidentally discharged. I havent looked at the new West Marine catalog, but the older issued always have had a great explanation with sketches and all, telling what is legal and what aint. I would strongly suggest it. What you really want to do is to more or less go from the head to the LS to the holding tank, the to the "y" valve , with the 'Y' having one leg to direct overboard and the other to the deck discharge. The idea of keeping the LS will help reduce odors in your boat
If you put the 'Y' closer to the head and pump from the head to the LS, the LS will pump overboard the same amount of water that you pumped into it. Now you have just discharged accidentally. If you had the 'Y' valve in the holding tank position and you pumped into it, it can be misinterpreted that if you forget to move the 'Y ' into this position, you could accidentally discharge. To avoid this 'accidental' discharge you should tie down or lock the 'y' valve in the correct position. As far as the authorities are concerned, you dont actually have to get caught discharging to get the fine, its the 'possibility' of an accidental discharge that will bite you in the ass, so to speak. To avoid this, go straight from the head into the holding tank, or from the head into the LS and then into the holding tank, then when someone flushes it can only go into the holding tank and cannot be accidentally discharged. I havent looked at the new West Marine catalog, but the older issued always have had a great explanation with sketches and all, telling what is legal and what aint. I would strongly suggest it. What you really want to do is to more or less go from the head to the LS to the holding tank, the to the "y" valve , with the 'Y' having one leg to direct overboard and the other to the deck discharge. The idea of keeping the LS will help reduce odors in your boat
I'll try to sort this out...
I can't find anything in the L/S manual that says to flush for 15 seconds...but it does say that flush volume should not exceed 1.5 gal. Flushing for 15 seconds is likely to exceed that, which will push untreated waste overboard. I'm assuming that you do plan to sail outside RI waters where you can use the Lectra/San. So you want to set up your system to be able to into the tank where you have to, go overboard through the Lectra/San where you can. It doesn't matter whether the waste is treated before it goes into the tank or not...so whether the y-valve is ahead of the L/S or after it doesn't matter either. Put it where it's most easily accessible. As far as the legal requirements are concerned, the only thing that has to be "secured from accidental discharge" is the thru-hull. It's not necessary to secure the y-valve too. So here's how I'd do it: from the toilet to a y-valve that allows you to send the waste directly to the tank or overboard via the L/S. Spec TWO discharge fittings in the tank...one goes to the deck pumpout, the other to the overboard discharge pump and thru-hull...you'll tee into the L/S discharge hose. 12' from the toilet is twice as far as the optimal distance for a tank, and twice as far as it can be from the L/S if you want to send treated waste to the tank. It's at least 3' TOO far if you put the y-valve ahead of the L/S...waste won't make it to the tank in the time anyone will spend flushing...it'll sit in the hose to permeate it. If you search the Ronco Plastics catalog, you should be able to find a non-rectangular tank that'll fit in a space closer to the toilet. However, a macerator or high output manual diaphragm pump should be able to move the tank contents 15' if the plumbing isn't too convoluted.
I can't find anything in the L/S manual that says to flush for 15 seconds...but it does say that flush volume should not exceed 1.5 gal. Flushing for 15 seconds is likely to exceed that, which will push untreated waste overboard. I'm assuming that you do plan to sail outside RI waters where you can use the Lectra/San. So you want to set up your system to be able to into the tank where you have to, go overboard through the Lectra/San where you can. It doesn't matter whether the waste is treated before it goes into the tank or not...so whether the y-valve is ahead of the L/S or after it doesn't matter either. Put it where it's most easily accessible. As far as the legal requirements are concerned, the only thing that has to be "secured from accidental discharge" is the thru-hull. It's not necessary to secure the y-valve too. So here's how I'd do it: from the toilet to a y-valve that allows you to send the waste directly to the tank or overboard via the L/S. Spec TWO discharge fittings in the tank...one goes to the deck pumpout, the other to the overboard discharge pump and thru-hull...you'll tee into the L/S discharge hose. 12' from the toilet is twice as far as the optimal distance for a tank, and twice as far as it can be from the L/S if you want to send treated waste to the tank. It's at least 3' TOO far if you put the y-valve ahead of the L/S...waste won't make it to the tank in the time anyone will spend flushing...it'll sit in the hose to permeate it. If you search the Ronco Plastics catalog, you should be able to find a non-rectangular tank that'll fit in a space closer to the toilet. However, a macerator or high output manual diaphragm pump should be able to move the tank contents 15' if the plumbing isn't too convoluted.
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