FREE BOAT QUESTION, FOR THINKERS!

[sailormanbigd]

Hi again all. What is the best wind dirrection for a grossly underpowered sailboat. My course will be 200 yards north (in marina channel) then a u turn to ssw for around 18 miles, then more wsw for a short trip, then about due west through the sunshine skyway and out past the intracoastal into the clear around 5 miles, then about due north for the rest of the trip 90 odd miles. I used to think that a north wind would be bad, but i don't want to have to tak thru the skyway, so a weterly wind would be out of the question. an east or neast would be good, what do you think? The weather here has gotten rough. Was planning on departing an tuesday originally, but wednesday will have to do. I need two days off to do the trip. I still have to mount the bracket and engine, and plug some leaks. Bought the p&j, and bread today. Good thing they keep. Patrick

 

[Flash15064]

?

For your safety and the safety of others - get a good tow boat to follow you.No sense in leading with your chin!

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

Underpowered

Underpowered is not your only problem. Its the super shoal draft....3-11" that will give you a lot of drift and mainly the fact that you have basically an unproven boat. Make sure you have a good marine radio and a cell phone and a St. Christopher medal, a Budda and a Star of David, a rabbits foot, and ......Most of all, have a good trip. May luck be with you.Tony B

 

[Flash15064]

Underpowered

Safe Sailing is not about "luck". It is about preparation and obtaining the experience to maximize the chance for safety and success. Sometimes things don't go well but if you have done all you can do your conscience can be clear.

 

[Paul F]

Sailflow

Did a shortened version of your trip in September. Had the bottom done near the Gandy Bridge and sailed the boat back to Clearwater from there. Sailflow, link below, shows good East wind starting on Tue and into Wed/Thur. After that it is out of the South. Tampa Bay is easy just stay in the channels if you can. I assume you have charts of the area. The passage under the Skyway Bridge is also easy and then past Egmont Key and you can turn and sail for home. Bon Voage

 

[Ross]

Patrick, I think that you are overly optimistic

in expecting to need two day for the trip. We only have about 11 hours of daylight at this time of year and you surely don't want to try to move that boat in the dark. By your numbers you have 113 miles to go. Do the math and reconsider your schedule.

 

[Manny]

Can you get some help?

Do you have anyone that can crew for you? Preferably someone with some sailing experience. An extra set of eyes, ears, and hands can make a huge difference in an emergency.Good luck and keep us posted.Manny

 

[CalebD]

Go for it dude! Just make sure you bring along

a couple of anchors of various sizes and plenty of line in case you have to kedge yourself out of harms way if the engine conks out or to just anchor where there is an unfavorable current. Having run aground in the Chesapeake in a sailboat with a good crew it is easy to get enough to get off a sand bar when everyone does their part: back wind the jib, hurl the anchor for kedging off and keep the boat heeled. Are we still in Act I or is this Act II in your mind? In any case, have fun and be safe!

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

Is this thread bogus?

I have responded to this thread several times because I have nothing better to do at the time and it does raise some interesting points. But I am fairly convinced that this is bogus. Here stands Patrick, totally clueless to everything yet he said that he has had 6 boats in the past. He dont know if his small O/B will push the boat and to what speed. He dont know how long the trip will take and probably how much gas to bring. He is totally broke, yet he will pay a yard to do the easiest of tasks...bottom paint. If he has ever bought boat parts he should know that anything on a 33 will be 4 - 6 times more expensive than on a 25. From what I gather, he is making the trip alone. He never even half joking asked for help on here in case someone had nothing else to do. Also his enthuesiasm is way overacted. And the friends place to keep the boat just went from 30-40 mile away to over 100 miles away. Am I missing something? Tony B.

 

[LANCE ON CLOUD NINE]

everyone is pullin for you Patrick

but I really think you should leave 3 sailing days for this trip (and possibly a 4th if any snags) When heading North up the coast,you may have to enter 1 or 2 inlets to avoid sailing at night. This could easily increase miles sailed 10% If you could do trip right after Christmas, I know we could organize some boats to follow you in segments along the way. Think how nice it would be on this first trip to look over the transom and talk to someone on radio. I bet your buddy Ross could keep readers posted of your progress in realtime if boats were to give him a quick call. The idea here is to use interested individuals and not the resources of coast guard (as Don rightfully predicted) I would be able to hang starting from skyline bridge, out into gulf and atleast as far north as St. Pete Beach. Any body else? This is nothing but a communial float plan. Some day when you get the hair polished off your beauty, you can do the same for someone else. Lance

 

[sailormanbigd]

no mention of the best wind dirrection

tonyb i assure you this is not bogus. I have owned 6 SMALL sailboats, i do have a clue. Initially i did a quick estimate of nautical miles by using my finger for a divider to guess distance. Then i got more precise with marking the distance key on edge of paper. total distance is 90nm, or close to that. At 4 knots thats 22 hours. I know that i can't expect 5-6 knots (hull speed), but i have to plug something in to the equation. I ain't got no money is correct. The bottom job was going on "VISA" until i start my work contract_1 extra day a week. I am not clueless, i am totally aware of the risks and responsibility involved and have lost much sleep about it. I have to keep moving forward, pushing on, and MAKE IT HAPPEN. When i found the substantial leak in the rudder post gland i was dumbfounded and frustrated, and close to backing out of the deal. But, with the expert advice found on this site was able to forsee a fix/albut temporary to "get er done". If I was to dwell on every negative aspect of this project i would certainly fold. This boat meets my criteria for my cruising vessel-6'5" headroom, large full sized births, large cockpit, wheel steering(always wanted a wheel, like in the pictures) and most of all an over thirty foot sailboat with a draft less than 4 feet. There aren't many models that fit these criteria. All my other boats had centerboards or swing keels. Even though i am keenly aware of the outisland shortcommings, i am also aware of there strongpoints. I have not asked, or whinned about needing help with this for multiple reasons. I don't want my resposibility to affect anyone else. If as some propose i am going to feed myself to the sharks, or call the coastguard for help, cuz i am certainnly not going to make it-why on earth would i subject my friends, family, or some realative stranger from this site to those outcomes. I have sailed many times singlehanded, and can do it again. The difference is that i never sailed this boat before, or anything larger than 26feet. I have a very good friend that has a 21ft seaswirl with 150hp johnson that would do anything to help me, but i am not a charity case. I simply don't have any money to pay him for his exspenses to tow me home. I do feel that this is within my abilities to do, and is doable, not risk free, but with the right conditions and preperation i should be able to sail her home. Also, the boat is so nasty down below it is not at all inviting. And, being captain i would be resposible to the well being of everyone. Once i get to Clearwter beach i will be in fmiliar territory. That is the furthest south i have been by boat. I would welcome anyones advice, and if they want to come out and see it for themselves that is welcome as well. Thanks for your input, i have chewed on it and spit it out. Give me your best shot, it only makes me stronger in my resolve to see it through. I am not planning to motor it for 90nm, just out to open water, and in thru the channel. Its an 8hp high thrust long shaft 4 stroke yamaha that i bought on time two years ago. I have motored along way on 1 gallon of gas. I plan on using the 6 gallon tank and bring 5 gallon jerry for backup. I will check with the NOA marina today as well as others. I never had a boat haulled and am thinking it is probably 4-500$ and if it cost 700$ to have them prep and paint it, then it is a no brainer, considerring the cost of paint. i would like to (and have shot for) leaving on Tuesday, but it probably just won't happen then, but i still keep pushing for it to get me motivated. Thanks for everyones input, and encouragement, i will keep you posted. Patrick

 

[sailormanbigd]

more comment

Just had a thought(one of many). The current owner has not pushed the competion of paperwork. He has made himself available though, "anytime" because he is off work. Maybe he is not sure of my conviction and is expecting me to give up- considering the enormity of the undertaking. He actually went below on Thursday, probably for the first time in a long time. Because, i had the water and junk out of it and had a clean temporary floor installed. I will call and visit him today to do the paperwork and collect the boat stuff he has at the house. I am gonna hook up a battery to the house wireing today, will have fire extinguisher at hand first though. Maybe something will actually work on the boat. Mostly interested in the nav lights and a cabin light or two. The owner is an electrical guy, so hopefully everything is fused. Hey the boat has a solar panel that the owner says needs a blocking diode so it does'nt drain the batteries at night. Anyone with knowledge regarding this? Would be nice to have the batts charging when not running the bilgepumps. I will take three deep cycle batterries along for security. One for the motor and two for the bilge pumps. Fully charged, what is the expected run time for a 750gph bilge pump, and an 1100gph one. I think one of the batts states something like 200hrs at 23 amps draw? Patrick

 

[Maine Sail]

Big D...

Quote: "tonyb i assure you this is not bogus. I have owned 6 SMALL sailboats, i do have a clue."Quote: "I think one of the batts states something like 200hrs at 23 amps draw?"Big D, Please take the time to read the books outlined for you here in numerous posts even if it means going to the book store, buying a cup of Joe, and hanging out for a few hours. 200 hours at 23 amps is NOT even close to what that means. So referring to your quote above "I do have a clue" it seems you might have a clue about some things, but, owning "6 small boats" is like saying "I owned a couple of go-carts so I'm ready to race the Indy 500". You might want to do a little more research before setting out.I'm going to help you out on this one but please do a little more in-depth investigation before you set sail on a leaking vessel, with rotted bulkheads (unless that changed), thinking your batteries will last 200 hours with a 23 AMP load....!! I hope you really meant reserve minutes......??? Just trying to be safe! I hope your planning on at least bringing an inflatable dinghy or renting a life raft..?Amp Hours:The Amp Hour rating tells you how much amperage is available when discharged evenly over a 20 hour period. The amp hour rating is cumulative, so in order to know how many constant amps the battery will output for 20 hours, you have to divide the amp hour rating by 20. Example: If a battery has an amp hour rating of 75, dividing by 20 = 3.75. Such a battery can carry a 3.75 amp load for 20 hours before dropping to 10.5 volts. (10.5 volts is the fully discharged level, at which point the battery needs to be recharged.) A battery with an amp hour rating of 55 will carry a 2.75 amp load for 20 hours before dropping to 10.5 volts.Reserve Minutes:Reserve minutes is the number of minutes a battery will carry a 25 amp load before dropping to 10.5 volts. (10.5 volts is the fully discharged level, at which point the battery needs to be recharged.)P.S. You say you don't have a lot of money, and you that know how to do all sorts of repairs, including fiberglass, so why are you willing to pay a boat yard to roll on bottom paint at, by your own estimate $700.00, if you don;t have money? You could paint the bottom by yourself for less than $150.00 and use the rest to by a hand operated bilge pump, rent a life raft, epirb and buy some new running lights and still have enough left over for a hand held GPS because using your fingers as dividers does not cut it..

 

[Jim]

I would take 2 weeks for this trip

I would have a dingy with a large HP motor that could pull the boat into a cove should you have trouble. Make sure you have a preventor to keep the main from knocking you out. The best wind is behind you to a beam reach.Are you traveling off shore? I wouldn't! Make sure you have a working radio and a hand held. Also, dewatering equipment backup! Sounds like you might need it.Good Luck and take your time.

 

[Paul F]

two cents

As stated earlier my boat was painted at the Gandy Bridge. Had it done at NOA. There is no way you will get out of any marina for less than $1,500. All work must be done by their people. Why do the bottom? The only reason to pull the boat would be to fix a leak at this time. Given the past description of the boat's problems this may be a good idea. But I would not pull it just to paint it at this time. The best wind direction is from the East as that is the one direction you are not going. As you likely know this is the "normal" wind direction around here and you should do o.k. with it. I gave the link to sailflow in another post. They are as good as anyone in predictions. Good Sailing.

 

[sailormanbigd]

not expert, not clueless

Sorry, not an expert at anything, but am not clueless. I wrongly stated one battery spec on past post, based on memory from last night. the sticker statesDC27 mca 715 avg min at 23amps 200, the next batt maxx 29 875mca, and the last dc31 and 810. the last two did'nt state avg time at 23 amps or i could'nt read it. Did'nt need exact specs, just was interested how long i could expect the bilge pumps to run before dying. I plan on plugging current leaks but Ross says to count on more once the boat is moving and healing. I don't profess to be expert, or very technical, or intellegant, or nothing, just not a total idiot, ok. Hell, in the future just ignore my ignorance, shake your head and forget it. I guess i have it comming, asking for advice from varrying fields of expertice. Patrick

 

[Maine Sail]

Patrick..

Patrick,We're not trying to insult you at all, in fact there is not one expert on here that is expert in all subjects sailing. We do however want you to live to tell the rest of the story....

 

[sailormanbigd]

PAULF

I have read your posts Paul, and thank you for the advice. Especially the skyway not being too bad. I have fished the old bridge in the past and it was pretty choppy. NOA has an add in "The Florida Mariner magazine advertising $22 a foot for 29-40 foot sail/power for Trinidad. I will call them and find out for sure. Are you saying there is hidden costs/fees? Patrick

 

[letterman]

interesting

One guy says to read books...as if he has the time.Another says why paint the bottom...he has a point...to a point. From what I saw of the bottom, it is crusty with barnacles. That has to diminish from the hull speed, from the old sailing logs I read (before copper bottom paint was invented). More to the point, what he really needs is to just clean off most of the bottom, which he could do from a dingy. So find a dingy? Borrow one! Buy a cheap one. Use anything that floats. Then tape a scraper to a long pole and scrape as much as you can, but....be aware of where the thru hulls are. Go gingerly around these areas. Scraping 75% of the hull should be enough till he can pull it out.The mariana's in the area probably have divers or know of divers that can scrape it for less than a pull out/paint job.Next: Paperwork - get it done first....period. Get title.Next...If your buddy can get you OUT of the harbor, let him do it... At 3 or 4 knots he will use very little fuel...150hp uses what? 2 to 3 gallons per hour at that speed towing? You are going say 10 miles? Two hours times 3 gallons/hr at $4/gallon = $24. Cheap. Now, if you are on the ocean, you should be able to sail. Go on the downside of a front, unless it's a weak front...up here the wind dies down to zilch soon after a front passes, but I have to assume you Floridians know breezes and can give him some input. Does it die down to zilch or keep up 7/24? He will have to go 90 miles, more likely more if he has to tack.The next problem is going to be at the new location. You will need a tow in. How are you going to do that? My advice: find someone in Tampa/St Pete selling a SMALL piece of crap powerboat that RUNS. Ask them if you could buy it for a week for $(pick a number). $200? $100? $150? If the guy is only asking $1000 or less, then $100 should be doable. Tell them you need it as a dingy for your sail. Don't tell them you just might be towing your sailboat the whole way.Then, get lazy son #1 away from Conchita babe and drag his sorry ass down to help you. He steers the sailboat...you run the tow boat. And bring your power boat buddy along for as long as he can stay. And if the power boat you rent comes with a trailer...so much the better...you can tow it back at 60mph on the road. Work out the logistics. Now, if you can't rent a boat, buy one...the smallest you can get...used...with a running outboard. 20 to 35 hp should do for the 90 miles trip. Remember, it's not forever...just two days. 90miles...two days...When you are done, sell it.

 

[Paul F]

NOA

Yes they have an ad and it gets you one coat of paint, NOA recommends two and three on the waterline. I was very happy with their service and paint job. But, paint will not keep the boat afloat and seems an unnecessary expense at this time. Doing extra work will cost you. I also have a 33' boat and had some fiberglass work done along with a new thru hull and prop put on. My cost was about $2,500. Not bad for the work done. They will not let you work on the boat. There are some yards in St. Pete that will. But again I thought you were trying to get the boat home to fix it. If you do not have to pull the boat to fix leaks, I would recommend you wait and see what all needs to be done before you pull it. Again as long as the boat floats and you have time you will get to Port Richey the trip is easy and you can stay close to shore all the way if you like. I believe your trip will go well.