Fred, have just spent my lunch hour going back over your website. I noticed that there was no insulation in your engine cover. Did you add some later? If so what kind did you use? I have seen lots of stuff on the web and every mfg claims theirs is the best. I haven't seen any independant testing so I am looking for some real world opinions. Thanks D.
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I second that Question
I've that soft foam w/ foil facing about an inch thick. Anyone put sound dampening stuff on the underside of the cockpit sole, or on the water heater in the engine compartment, or anywhere it might just do some good. I can't hear the VHF at the nav station nor Greatful Dead on the CD w/the engine running, when on deck.
I've that soft foam w/ foil facing about an inch thick. Anyone put sound dampening stuff on the underside of the cockpit sole, or on the water heater in the engine compartment, or anywhere it might just do some good. I can't hear the VHF at the nav station nor Greatful Dead on the CD w/the engine running, when on deck.
Scott, I take it that
You are not impressed with the foam/foil stuff? Did it have a layer of what appears to be plastic imbedded in it?
You are not impressed with the foam/foil stuff? Did it have a layer of what appears to be plastic imbedded in it?
David, not impressed
seems pretty cosmetic. A couple a small pieces fell off and didn't have any plastic sheet in them. The only crew who was ever able to nap in the quarter berth w/the engine running was a teenager whose goal for the day was to sleep.
seems pretty cosmetic. A couple a small pieces fell off and didn't have any plastic sheet in them. The only crew who was ever able to nap in the quarter berth w/the engine running was a teenager whose goal for the day was to sleep.
The next picture shows the foil.
David and Scott, this is third generation installation stuff. The first was 'factory'. Junk! Think of a catchers glove. The ball/sound hits it. Some times you hear the ball crack. Other times you only hear a dull thunk. The person running the glove can make it sound any way they want to. The 'crack' is caused when the ball hits solid. (that hurts) If it hits the webbing, not loud. And that doesn't hurt. Your engine room needs a webbing to catch the sound. Foam alone won't do it. The good stuff has a lead barrier. It's also heavy but that's the 'webbing'. The dense plastic stuff works too but not quite as well. Back in the late '80s I installed the lead sheeting. It was 1 1/4" thick. The lead was sandwiched inside. I even put it on the drip pan. The engine room was so tight that I had to install an air vent both in and out. (out was a blower) Results? Have you ever raced your hotrod and then jumped into the Cadillac for the tow home? That was the difference. But alas, the tropics killed the stuff. So did various leaks of engine fluids. During our rebuild I thought I would try the stuff from sailorssolutions.com. It has the hard barrier layer on the surface not inside. Also it is self adhesive and comes in one foot squares. It works well, but I haven't put it on the drip pan or behind the transmission at hull level. I'm planning on the larger conventional blankets for that so I can remove it for cleaning or easy replacement in case of an accidental leak. This is a job worth doing but it must be done correctly to gain its' full potential. The laws of quantum mechanics apply. 90% of the sound will pass by a 10% opening.
David and Scott, this is third generation installation stuff. The first was 'factory'. Junk! Think of a catchers glove. The ball/sound hits it. Some times you hear the ball crack. Other times you only hear a dull thunk. The person running the glove can make it sound any way they want to. The 'crack' is caused when the ball hits solid. (that hurts) If it hits the webbing, not loud. And that doesn't hurt. Your engine room needs a webbing to catch the sound. Foam alone won't do it. The good stuff has a lead barrier. It's also heavy but that's the 'webbing'. The dense plastic stuff works too but not quite as well. Back in the late '80s I installed the lead sheeting. It was 1 1/4" thick. The lead was sandwiched inside. I even put it on the drip pan. The engine room was so tight that I had to install an air vent both in and out. (out was a blower) Results? Have you ever raced your hotrod and then jumped into the Cadillac for the tow home? That was the difference. But alas, the tropics killed the stuff. So did various leaks of engine fluids. During our rebuild I thought I would try the stuff from sailorssolutions.com. It has the hard barrier layer on the surface not inside. Also it is self adhesive and comes in one foot squares. It works well, but I haven't put it on the drip pan or behind the transmission at hull level. I'm planning on the larger conventional blankets for that so I can remove it for cleaning or easy replacement in case of an accidental leak. This is a job worth doing but it must be done correctly to gain its' full potential. The laws of quantum mechanics apply. 90% of the sound will pass by a 10% opening.
Scott in Seattle - got a noise solution for ya!
Can't hear the Greatful Dead on your stereo? I've got a break-through idea. And, don't forget, you read it here first! Have you ever noticed how all those big-engined powerboats look a little different than a sailboat? Have you ever wondered why? Well.... they put a flying bridge up there to get away from the engine noise! Soooooo...... (just couldn't resist this oportunity!) Well, actually, that may not have been the only reason. I think they may have put the bridge up there so they could see over the bow when underway so it's kinda like killing two birds with one stone. In order to actually add something to this thread, there was an interesting study on sound-proofing on single-engine aircraft several years ago. The project was to sound-proof something like a single engine Cessna or Piper. The firewall between the engine and the cockit was insulated. What was interesting was they found that even the smallest hole or opening in the soundproofing would allow a lot of the noise to get through. A small area that was difficult to get the insulation on, a poorly cut piece of insulation that didn't totally cover everything, etc., all contributed greatly for noise to be transmitted through the firewall. What this points out, like Fred said, is, for a good job, that you got to get ALL insulated. If you're going to do a 90 or 95% job, well, you might as well not even do it. Another point that Fred mentioned that must be considered, is engine breathing. The engine must have a good air intake. If it has to work at geting air, such as sucking it through a well insulated engine room, it won't run properly. Also, if the air is at an elevated temperature it won't run properly either. Providing an air intake duct to the breather as Fred did is an excellent idea for good engine performance. Knocking down that damn engine noise sure does help make life easier. Let's see, a flying bridge on a sailboat..... hmmm...
Can't hear the Greatful Dead on your stereo? I've got a break-through idea. And, don't forget, you read it here first! Have you ever noticed how all those big-engined powerboats look a little different than a sailboat? Have you ever wondered why? Well.... they put a flying bridge up there to get away from the engine noise! Soooooo...... (just couldn't resist this oportunity!) Well, actually, that may not have been the only reason. I think they may have put the bridge up there so they could see over the bow when underway so it's kinda like killing two birds with one stone. In order to actually add something to this thread, there was an interesting study on sound-proofing on single-engine aircraft several years ago. The project was to sound-proof something like a single engine Cessna or Piper. The firewall between the engine and the cockit was insulated. What was interesting was they found that even the smallest hole or opening in the soundproofing would allow a lot of the noise to get through. A small area that was difficult to get the insulation on, a poorly cut piece of insulation that didn't totally cover everything, etc., all contributed greatly for noise to be transmitted through the firewall. What this points out, like Fred said, is, for a good job, that you got to get ALL insulated. If you're going to do a 90 or 95% job, well, you might as well not even do it. Another point that Fred mentioned that must be considered, is engine breathing. The engine must have a good air intake. If it has to work at geting air, such as sucking it through a well insulated engine room, it won't run properly. Also, if the air is at an elevated temperature it won't run properly either. Providing an air intake duct to the breather as Fred did is an excellent idea for good engine performance. Knocking down that damn engine noise sure does help make life easier. Let's see, a flying bridge on a sailboat..... hmmm...
Think I'll order a few squares
of Fred's recommended product, keeping in mind John's advise. If I could at least keep the sound back/aft rather than into the cabin, that would be worth $100. In the meantime, since no fly bridge, I'll just put AC/DC ( the band) in the CD when motoring. That should get the liveaboards out on deck when returning to the slip.
of Fred's recommended product, keeping in mind John's advise. If I could at least keep the sound back/aft rather than into the cabin, that would be worth $100. In the meantime, since no fly bridge, I'll just put AC/DC ( the band) in the CD when motoring. That should get the liveaboards out on deck when returning to the slip.
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