Fortress Anchor Question.....

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G

Gary

Would like input on my problem I'm having with a FX-11 Fortress anchor. It takes at least 3 tries before it will set.....and even then, often it drags. Boat is a Hunter 31 (~10,000 lb.) Using ~15 feet of chain. Bottom here is most very muddy. I have heard that the fluke angle can be adjusted, but don't see how that's possible. I also hear that there are some type of "mud plates" that can be mounted on it. I'm about to sell it and buy another Bruce, but will miss the light weight of the fortress. My bruce 22 works every time, first time, but it's heavy and awkward to handle. Any thoughts? Thanks
 

RAD

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Jun 3, 2004
2,330
Catalina 30 Bay Shore, N.Y.
FX 16

Had the same problem with my 32 ODay with a FX11 and upgraded to the next size (FX16),then I installed a windlass and just retired it last month because I installed a genuine Bruce. It will live in the anchor locker just in case. BTW I'm the first boat to drop anchor and friends raft up to me and that fortress has never failed
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
Mud or Mud

Gary: The "danforth" type anchors are normally very good in mud and/or sand. My experience is that they are terrible when there are weeds or grass on that muddy bottom. I would suggest that you consider a Delta vs. the Bruce. The delta @ 22lbs would be a good all around anchor for your size boat. I think you will need about 33lbs with the Bruce (storage may be a problem). You would be on the edge with the 22# Bruce as you are with your FX-11. I would keep the Fortress as a spare. They can be disassembled and easily stored!
 
C

Capt. Ron

Quick set

Gary, I have a Fortress on my 37.5 as my primary anchor, and have neve had a problem getting it set, (mostly mud and sand here) I do have the "mud guards " that may be part of it because they do recommed this if you are anchoring in that type of bottom. They also do not recommend an excess amount of chain, I think I have 6' or 8' of chain. But I think the real key is to "quick set" it, meaning let out very little scope befor you set it firmly, then let out the proper scope, It works for me. Hope this helps.
 

BobW

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Jul 21, 2005
456
Hunter 31 San Pedro, Ca
Go bigger, be safer!

Steve is right, the Bruce 22# would be too light. I have a 'Bruce Lee' that weighs 29# and 50 feet of chain on my windlass-less Hunter 31. It sets well, holds well and recovers well ('cept my back doesn't like it much!). Of course, out here we have mostly sandy bottoms, no coral, very little grass except for kelp. I don't see many frequently-used sailboats with a Danforth-type as primary. Just about everybody has one as a spare - I have 2! Not sure about the 6-8 feet of chain recommended? Below is a link that covers everything I can think about regarding anchor catenary. Interesting reading, even if the math makes my eyes water :D Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
 
B

Benny

Had the same problem

Put a Fortress on a San Juan 21 we had and dragged every time (3) so went back to the all steel danforth. I had figured it may have needed more chain to hold it down but that would have defetead the purpose of weight saving. The SJ did not have an anchor locker so anchor and rode had to be carried from the cockpit. To say I was not impressed with the anchor is an understatement. We now have a much heavier boat and use a claw on the bow roller with 20 feet of chain.
 
Jul 1, 1998
3,062
Hunter Legend 35 Poulsbo/Semiahmoo WA
Gary - You're in Luck !

Years ago when Fortress first came out with their advertising that showed how great they were I bought two of them - one for regular anchoring (FX-16) and a heavier one (FX-23). The -16 was for boats 33'-38' and the -23 was for boats 39'-45'. Since then, according to the Fortress web site, it appears they have a new series called the "Guardian" series. While the anchor looks the same the recommended size boat is different. The G-11 is for 23'-27', G-16 is for 28'-33', and the G-23 is for 34'-41'. For info our boat is a HL-35. I've never used the -23 but almost did. Put it together along with the chain and rode when a big blow was forcasted but it never materialized so I never used it. The -16 though, did get used but frankly, due to it's light weight, I never felt comfortable sleeping at night and finally went to a Delta 35# which has worked really well, along with 45ft of 5/16HT chain plus nylon rode. There was a very positive experience I had with the FX-16 though and that was when we were anchored out at Port Townsend. [Note: the G-16 is for boats to 33ft] For those who don't know, Port Townsend, between the ferry dock and Point Hudson, has a somewhat shoal shelf and then the bottom starts falling off fairly good. Many people try to anchor in the 30ft depth which allows swing room so you don't run aground and at the same time avoid anchoring into much deeper depths. The other problems are the kelp starts around, say, the 20-plus ft depth and it gets pretty thick, and, the tide turns every few hours which causes everybody to swing. We were anchored in or around 40ft, as I recall, which is definitely kelp-depth. We went into town and came back and for some reason a lot of the boats around us were dragging anchor - but we weren't!. Whether it was due to us having more scope, lots of chain, or something else I don't know but we were set good. When I weighed anchor there was a ton of kelp hanging on it. Oh, kelp likes to hang on a Fortress. There are lots of places for it to snag on. Anyway, going back to your post about mud palms as they are properly called - this is your lucky day! You can get them for FREE! Check out the Fortress web site at http://www.fortressanchors.com/ and select the fifth link down on the left side "Guardian Anchors" then select "Mud Palms". Fortress Anchors/Selection Guide, as Steve D pointed out, shows you're at the upper edge with the FX-11. For as light as these anchors are I would give serious consideration about opting for the next size up. In fact, I also like his Delta suggestion. Check out the Fortress web site because it has a lot of good information.
 
Jul 1, 1998
3,062
Hunter Legend 35 Poulsbo/Semiahmoo WA
Make that Fortress instead of Guardian

Darn. Gary - click on "Fortress" and not "Guardian" for the mud palms. Sorry.
 
Dec 2, 2003
4,245
- - Seabeck WA
John,

I just posted a picture of that truly RED car on the 'Up, Down, Sideways thread. Linda's in the shot too. :)
 
Aug 9, 2005
772
Hunter 28.5 Palm Coast, FL
You need the mud paws

These are attachment for the Fortress anchor that improve it's holding and setting ability in mud. Mine came free with the anchor.
 
Sep 14, 2004
198
Hunter 42 Deltaville VA
Holds like a pine board

We used to have one with our old Hunter 37C. Getting it to set even with the mud paws was ALWAYS a challenge. Then got a Bruce 33. Never had a problem with setting again. On our P42 we use a Bruce 44 and have never had a problem in 8 years of constant anchoring.
 
Jun 2, 2004
3,506
Hunter 23.5 Fort Walton Yacht Club, Florida
We Love Ours

Never had any trouble with the mud when we lived in Biloxi nor the sand here in Florida. Wonder about your anchoring technique, maybe there is somthing you can do different to ensure it sets well.
 
R

Rich

Current lightweight champ is the Spade Aluminum

Gary, as others have mentioned the Fortress now comes with the mud palms and you can get them to retrofit yours. I also agree with John that you may get better performance at your boat weight by moving up to the FX-16 and keeping your FX-11 as your spare. Practical Sailor has been publishing the results of their anchor tests over the last 10 years and the back reports are available on the web from different sources [http://www.practical-sailor.com/boatus/anchors/4rhod4598/01anchor.html]. The current champ of the lightweight anchors in their tests is the aluminum version of the spade, which for your boat would be 18 lbs. They are very expensive but are now sold off the shelf at West Marine (see link below).
 
G

Gary

Thanks for everyone's advice....

I ordered the mud palms and they are being sent right away....and you are right, they're FREE! What a great website they have. I think my problem is the angle of the flukes. I followed the instructions, and in about 2 minutes, I changed the angle to 45 degrees which is advised for soft mud. They also advised to set first at a short scope, so as to keep the shank from sinking in the mud below the flukes, then lenghtening the scope and finishing the set. I'll give it one more chance to redeem itself. If no luck, I'll be looking for another bruce or delta. Would love to install a bow roller, but the darn things are so pricy. Thanks again
 
A

Alain POIRAUD

penetration

In order to hold, an anchor must first deeply penetrate and set in the various types of seafloors. There are two types of setting: static and dynamic. Static Setting Almost always followed by dynamic setting, this setting is typical for cargo ships, where the anchor, from several hundred pounds to several tons, sinks into the seafloor from its sheer weight alone. No extensive research has been carried out regarding effective setting for these circumstances. In terms of small craft navigation, we can find a similar static setting with the plow anchor, which they don’t manufacture under 15 pounds, simply because anything lighter could not function. Anchors which are not sufficiently heavy may only offer cursory holding in more compact or weedy seafloors, but they might be very effective in soft mud. Dynamic Setting The traction of the rode ought to force the anchor to pierce and bury in the seafloor. Although its own weight may facilitate static setting, lightweight anchors will also set; it suffices that the anchor tip encounters a sand ripple, or a soft area to pierce, followed by the backward traction force which drives the the anchor into the seafloor, caused by the engine in reverse. On compact or weedy seafloors, some anchor models tend to skim the seafloor for some distance before taking hold. To ensure a speedy setting in virtually all types of seafloors, there are a couple of physical characteristics to consider: Regardless of the tool, depending on the substance, two parameters ensure good setting: -The proper setting angle and -The highest amount of pressure possible. The optimal setting angle adapted for anchoring is the “chisel angle.” The Fortress anchor features a "Razor Blade Angle": This angle, superior to 150°, is typical of plate or articulating anchors. They necessitate contact with a sand ripple or soft area for their fluketips to pierce the seafloor surface; they then assume the chisel angle and set. On compact or weedy seafloors, these anchors shave the bottom without taking hold. Setting Pressure: Pressure is defined as force divided by surface area. Here, we have two variables: force (daN) and surface area (mm²). The force must be as high as possible and the surface as small as possible to maximize the pressure. A number of anchors have sharpened setting edges, as do the Fortress, FOB THP, the Bügel or the Spade. The distribution of weight in the fluke tip makes sense in anchor design as it facilitates setting. We can see a great disparity amongst fluke ballasting in various anchors: The fluketips of flat anchors and the CQR comprise between 12 and 16 % of the total weight of the anchor, while the ballasted tip of the Delta contains 28% of its total weight. The SPADE anchor contains 47% of its total weight in its point. We can see that an anchor will tend to set more easily in the seafloor when it launches with the appropriate penetration angle coupled with the maximum pressure on its fluke tip. (From the book: " The complete anchoring handbook"..)
 
A

Alain POIRAUD

PENETRATION..

penetration In order to hold, an anchor must first deeply penetrate and set in the various types of seafloors. There are two types of setting: static and dynamic. Static Setting Almost always followed by dynamic setting, this setting is typical for cargo ships, where the anchor, from several hundred pounds to several tons, sinks into the seafloor from its sheer weight alone. No extensive research has been carried out regarding effective setting for these circumstances. In terms of small craft navigation, we can find a similar static setting with the plow anchor, which they don’t manufacture under 15 pounds, simply because anything lighter could not function. Anchors which are not sufficiently heavy may only offer cursory holding in more compact or weedy seafloors, but they might be very effective in soft mud. Dynamic Setting The traction of the rode ought to force the anchor to pierce and bury in the seafloor. Although its own weight may facilitate static setting, lightweight anchors will also set; it suffices that the anchor tip encounters a sand ripple, or a soft area to pierce, followed by the backward traction force which drives the the anchor into the seafloor, caused by the engine in reverse. On compact or weedy seafloors, some anchor models tend to skim the seafloor for some distance before taking hold. To ensure a speedy setting in virtually all types of seafloors, there are a couple of physical characteristics to consider: Regardless of the tool, depending on the substance, two parameters ensure good setting: -The proper setting angle and -The highest amount of pressure possible. The optimal setting angle adapted for anchoring is the “chisel angle.” The Fortress anchor features a "Razor Blade Angle": This angle, superior to 150°, is typical of plate or articulating anchors. They necessitate contact with a sand ripple or soft area for their fluketips to pierce the seafloor surface; they then assume the chisel angle and set. On compact or weedy seafloors, these anchors shave the bottom without taking hold. Setting Pressure: Pressure is defined as force divided by surface area. Here, we have two variables: force (daN) and surface area (mm²). The force must be as high as possible and the surface as small as possible to maximize the pressure. A number of anchors have sharpened setting edges, as do the Fortress, FOB THP, the Bügel or the Spade. The distribution of weight in the fluke tip makes sense in anchor design as it facilitates setting. We can see a great disparity amongst fluke ballasting in various anchors: The fluketips of flat anchors and the CQR comprise between 12 and 16 % of the total weight of the anchor, while the ballasted tip of the Delta contains 28% of its total weight. The SPADE anchor contains 47% of its total weight in its point. We can see that an anchor will tend to set more easily in the seafloor when it launches with the appropriate penetration angle coupled with the maximum pressure on its fluke tip. (From the book: " The complete anchoring handbook"..)
 
B

Brian

Reply from Fortress

I am Brian from Fortress customer service. The Mud Palms are included in the box with all Fortress anchors. Our advice is to install them and leave them on, since the Mud Palms will help the anchors to set faster in ANY type of bottom. It is possible that in a very soft silty mud bottom, the weight of the chain can sink the shank below the flukes if you try to set the anchor with your normal long scope. To prevent this, we recommend setting the anchor with a shorter scope, i.e. 2 or 3 to 1 and then once the anchor sets, pay out your rode to 5 to 1 or better if possible, and power set the anchor. By the way, we have received some great product testimonials from boaters in the Gulf and Caribbean after the recent hurricane seasons. We would love to hear your story, so please send it to me and in turn I will send you a Fortress ball cap for your efforts! My e-mail address is: brian@fortressanchors.com Please check out the web page below and go to #8 for the soft mud tips. Safe boating, Brian
 
R

Rich

footnotes to that last...

Practical Sailor credits Mr. Poiraud as the inventor of the Spade Anchor [http://www.practical-sailor.com/boatus/anchors/4rhod4598/99anchor1.html]. There is also some theory from Spade's point of view at their web site: [http://www.spade-anchor.com/Site%20anglais/US/technicaldetails.htm]
 
B

Brian

Reply from Fortress #2

Gary, If you don't have the Mud Palms, then please give us a call and we will send you out a set at no charge. Here is our phone number and e-mail address: 800-825-6289 parts@fortressanchors.com Also, please find below a link with instructions on how to change the angle from 32 to 45 degrees. This angle change can dramatically increase the holding power of the Fortress anchor in a soft mud bottom. In all other bottom conditions, please keep the anchor set at 32 degrees. Please find an image of the crown with this post which shows where the 45 degree hole is located. Please let me know if I can further assistance. Best regards
 
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